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therange
Phoenix
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Joined: Sep 04, 2009
Age: 26
Posts: 786
Location: Not at Spike's house.
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 Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:15 am Post subject: |
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You know, reading the frustration and outright bitterness of men in this thread, I'm glad I'm completely over that point of my life.
Most of this is typical "I like attractive women but they don't like me or take advantage of me." I'm not saying women are angels - in fact, I dropped out of college because two average looking girls in my class were harassing me, making fun of me, day in and day out and thought I wasn't paying attention until I went to the Dean and reported it. Sad to say, the only reason the school took it very seriously is because I told them I have Aspergers and they said it was discrimination. The girls were forced to apologize, but I told the school flat-out that I didn't want an insincere apology, and that they just had to live with the fact that they were bad people.
You don't see me sounding like I want to go on a murder spree. Most of the guys on here are just frustrated that they can't get women out of their league, that they probably wouldn't want anyway if they didn't think she was physically attractive.
Maybe lower your standards and find a woman that it is suitable for you. I know looks matter to a degree but I'd take the cute girl with the nice personality over the better looking one that's difficult to deal with. |
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therange
Phoenix
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Joined: Sep 04, 2009
Age: 26
Posts: 786
Location: Not at Spike's house.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:52 am Post subject: |
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May I also suggest, a lot of the guys in this thread and forum in general sound desperate and needy. What you guys need is a woman who's just as desperate and needy as you, not used to male attention, and just grateful that someone is giving her a chance. There are PLENTY of these women on free dating sites like okcupid and plentyoffish...so aspergers and lack of social skills isn't an excuse.
Think about it, you're needy, demanding, and mad at attractive women or women that don't want you. A less attractive woman that isn't used to get any attention other than from guys that want to use her for sex will appreciate your desire for a girlfriend. The women you seek have been dating for years, and even if you were their type, you'd just be another guy she was dating. It wouldn't mean as much to her as it does to you. What you need is a woman that will think "Wow, I have a boyfriend" and won't care that you're emotionally desperate and needy. |
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0_equals_true
Genuine Charlatan
Joined: Apr 06, 2007
Age: 27
Posts: 7300
Location: London
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| therange wrote: | | What you guys need is a woman who's just as desperate and needy as you, not used to male attention, and just grateful that someone is giving her a chance. |
Until they actually experience it. They would drive each other insane with their wants.
Personally I think extreme neediness cannot be matched. Or at least it would require many permanent staff/management.
The solution is learning not to be so dependent on people for you every whim, and that a relationship is about mutual benefit.
Anyway I wouldn't tell people to give up. Maybe Ken should give up. He is a black and white thinker, and holds people to unrealistic standards that even he wouldn’t be able to meet. I don't know, and have no evidence to indicate whether he can change that. He may actually be happier if he doesn’t try at all. But if he want to give up, he has to put some effort into not being sucked into the same cycle of behaviour.
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KenM
an i mal
Joined: Oct 16, 2005
Age: 41
Posts: 1290
Location: Mass. USA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:53 am Post subject: Re: Why do women always like to mess with guys? |
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T | PaganMom wrote: | | KenM wrote: | | PaganMom wrote: |
Well you obviously know that "lets just be friends" means "I'm not interested in you" but you want her to say it another way to make her uncomfortable for rejecting you. If you know what it means, why do you whine about a girl saying it to you?
As for the airport girl, it wasn't your business if she was seeing somebody, and if you wanted to put some kind of strings attached to the ride to the airport then just tell her what you want, and if that's acceptable to her, then she will do it, but probably not.
PaganMom |
For starters, I said in an eariler post in this thread what I am going to try to do to change my atitude and look and do things diferently.
For some reason when I women says "I just want to be friends" it causes me to think that they are not being honest with me and don't respect me enough to tell me flat out they are not interested. I have been told that so many times I have no idea if they really mean it, or if they are just trying to let me down easy. From now on I am going to assume they want nothing to do with me and not think about it and walk away.
As for the airport girl, I was not interested in her romantically at that point. I thought it would be nice to hang out and do some stuff before her trip. I asked her if the reason she did not have time to hang out was because she was seeing someone romantically, I won't be mad, but just let me know. She said she was not, but a week after I picked her up from the airport she told me she was seeing someone at that time. So I was flat out lied to and disrespected. Thats what I did not like. This was someone I told that I had AS and what that means is I need people to try and be truthful, ect.. I did not care she was seeing anyone, but the fact she could not tell me the truth is what ended our friendship. She only used me for a place to stay when she was over from nantucket and for rides to the airport. When we were driving home from the airport, she called what I think was her BF over on the island. She wanted to know if he wanted anything at burger king because we were going to stop before we got to the other airport to take her to the island. She did not bother asking me, her so called friend if I wanted anything until after she ordered her food and the food for her friend. I said yes I did want something. I ordered a meal. I figured she would ask if I wanted something because i was doing her a favor, taking the day off from work to pick her up and driving up to boston and back. But she thought so little of me. One other time we were walking around the mall, she ran into a friend of hers and started talking to him. She did not bother to bring me into the conversation or introduce me or anything like that, all of a sudden I was not there in her eyes. And people say people with AS need social skills?
Stuff with her was building, she was using me and I did not feel a freindship with her. Thats why I broke it off with her, not because I had feelings for her romatically. |
You don't sound like you have tried to understand one word anybody has said to you.
"Just friends" is a SOCIAL NICETY. That's all. Do you feel like somebody is lying to you when they ask how you are and don't really care, it's just a greeting? Do you feel that it's a lie when somebody says "see you later" and they have no intention to? It's the same thing. It's just a nice way to turn a guy down for a date. It's a phrase. It sounds like they may say that to you hoping you would understand, (which you do btw, obviously since you have b***** about it in numerous posts) but you want to harrass them by asking if they really want to be your friend and why they dont like you etc. You need to stop that first. Accept, even if you don't like it, that 'lets be friends' is a phrase, a way of turining you down, even if you don't like that phrase. It's like "Ive got to wash my hair". If you asked a girl out and she turned you down for a date, using that as an excuse, would you try to ascertain the next day if she really had washed her hair, then be all upset about it if she didn't? Somebody has the right to turn down a date using whatever excuse they so desire, true or not. Just because you have AS does not change her right to say what she wants. I have AS too, and when I hear things enough, I know it's not meant literally. Nobody is going to change an entire society's phrasing just to suit you. I'm sorry, but it's not gonna happen.
BTW, I guess you could say I LIED to you just now, because I said "I'm sorry" when I'm not, but again, it's a phrase.
The airport girl's relationship status was none of your business. It's as simple as that. AS doesn't mean you are entitled to know the answer to everything you ask. It also doesn't mean that other people can't answer in whatever way they so choose. As for the food, she DID ask you if you wanted anything. You were with her, and going to BK, so I'm pretty sure she figured that she could ask you there, not before anybody else. Now your just whining because she asked her bf first on the phone, ordered hers, and then asked if you wanted anything. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. If I'm in the car with people and go to a drive through, I'll order what I need to for me and whoever elese then ask if they want anything.
Not introducing you to her friend she stopped to talk to is borderline rude, depending on who the friend was. You are not going to be the center of someones attention constantly.
Now that you know that "just friends" means "no thanks" are you going to stop fussing over it? It's just a way of answering. Nobody is going to change an entire societies way of communicating for you, me, or Joe Blow down the street. That's just how it is, I learned it, I have AS just like you do, and so can you.
Paganmom |
I have already said that I have to work on the 'lets be friends ' thing. I am trying. As far as the thing at BK with the other girl we went in she ordered the food for her and her friend. Then after she ordered she looks at me and asks if I wanted anything after she ordered the other food. Like I was not even there. Shbe used me plan and simple. |
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ToadOfSteel
Living in fantasy
Joined: Sep 24, 2007
Age: 22
Posts: 5347
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:54 am Post subject: |
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| lotusblossom wrote: | to me, your post yell out that your very insecure and would be 'hard work' and emotionally draining. I think you should stop useing the 'negative affirmations' of having 'unlovable' writen everywhere and buy some books on confidence building and self esteem. Even if working on your self esteem does not get you a girlfriend it would make you feel better.
I do like you lots though and enjoy your posts and Im not saying that to be mean but to be frank and honest, I hope that I have not hurt your feelings. |
Nah you didn't hurt my feelings... I asked for an honest opinion and you gave one... I'm not so insecure that the slightest criticism makes me break down like that... in fact, being so hard on myself protects me from that outcome, so there is some consolation there...
| therange wrote: | | You don't see me sounding like I want to go on a murder spree. Most of the guys on here are just frustrated that they can't get women out of their league, that they probably wouldn't want anyway if they didn't think she was physically attractive. |
Do I sound bitter or like I want to go on a murder spree?
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"I mean I am the guy who writes down things to remember to say when there is a party. And then when he finally gets there he winds up alone, in the corner, trying to look...comfortable examining a potted plant." |
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0_equals_true
Genuine Charlatan
Joined: Apr 06, 2007
Age: 27
Posts: 7300
Location: London
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:10 pm Post subject: Re: Why do women always like to mess with guys? |
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| KenM wrote: | | I have already said that I have to work on the 'lets be friends ' thing. I am trying. As far as the thing at BK with the other girl we went in she ordered the food for her and her friend. Then after she ordered she looks at me and asks if I wanted anything after she ordered the other food. Like I was not even there. Shbe used me plan and simple. |
You got a lot to learn, you read way too much into things. You can view that situation in so many different ways. Are you not able to order food for yourself? Let it drop.
You can’t expect to be on the same terms a people who have been friends for a while.
You are not giving people the benefit of that doubt, and you expect them to be perfect when you are not. You need to learn that people will continue to disappoint you, but nothing can continue to disappoint you more than you negative attitude towards people. It is as if people can’t even take a sh** without you reading something into it.
People are animals; they behave like animals, stop expecting them to behave like saints.
If you want someone to be you friend you need someone who is going to accommodate some of your quirks. they are not going to do that if you don't cut them some slack. There is nothing in it for them.
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Last edited by 0_equals_true on Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:16 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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therange
Phoenix
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Joined: Sep 04, 2009
Age: 26
Posts: 786
Location: Not at Spike's house.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| ToadOfSteel wrote: | | lotusblossom wrote: | to me, your post yell out that your very insecure and would be 'hard work' and emotionally draining. I think you should stop useing the 'negative affirmations' of having 'unlovable' writen everywhere and buy some books on confidence building and self esteem. Even if working on your self esteem does not get you a girlfriend it would make you feel better.
I do like you lots though and enjoy your posts and Im not saying that to be mean but to be frank and honest, I hope that I have not hurt your feelings. |
Nah you didn't hurt my feelings... I asked for an honest opinion and you gave one... I'm not so insecure that the slightest criticism makes me break down like that... in fact, being so hard on myself protects me from that outcome, so there is some consolation there...
| therange wrote: | | You don't see me sounding like I want to go on a murder spree. Most of the guys on here are just frustrated that they can't get women out of their league, that they probably wouldn't want anyway if they didn't think she was physically attractive. |
Do I sound bitter or like I want to go on a murder spree? |
Not you in particular, just a lot of the posts I read. And it's normal for guys to have that frustration, but IMO from experience, unhealthy and counterproductive to meeting women. |
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Janissy
Phoenix
Joined: May 06, 2009
Age: 43
Posts: 1456
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:23 pm Post subject: Re: Why do women always like to mess with guys? |
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| KenM wrote: |
I have already said that I have to work on the 'lets be friends ' thing. I am trying. As far as the thing at BK with the other girl we went in she ordered the food for her and her friend. Then after she ordered she looks at me and asks if I wanted anything after she ordered the other food. Like I was not even there. Shbe used me plan and simple. |
Yikes! You have a really low bar for what constitutes being used. If that's what qualifies as being used for you, a relationship with an NT woman is not possible. Maybe an AS woman. I don't know. But definately not an NT woman. You have to cut people some slack- a lot of slack and not be on hair-trigger alert for being used, disrespected or lied to. Because if what she did was unacceptable to you, then NT women as a whole are unacceptable to you. They are not going to morph into AS women just because you think that morally they ought to. And I don't know if an AS woman could bear the level of scrutiny that you bring to a relationship either, although they would fare better at being direct.
If you are willing to accept women for being themselves, a relationship is possible. If you are going to insist that ordinary behaviour (which this was) is unacceptably deceitful and constitutes using you, a relationship is not possible. |
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Janissy
Phoenix
Joined: May 06, 2009
Age: 43
Posts: 1456
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:24 pm Post subject: Re: Why do women always like to mess with guys? |
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| 0_equals_true wrote: | | KenM wrote: | | I have already said that I have to work on the 'lets be friends ' thing. I am trying. As far as the thing at BK with the other girl we went in she ordered the food for her and her friend. Then after she ordered she looks at me and asks if I wanted anything after she ordered the other food. Like I was not even there. Shbe used me plan and simple. |
You got a lot to learn, you read way too much into things. You can view that situation in so many different ways. Are you not able to order food for yourself? Let it drop.
You can’t expect to be on the same terms a people who have been friends for a while.
You are not giving people the benefit of that doubt, and you expect them to be perfect when you are not. You need to learn that people will continue to disappoint you, but nothing can continue to disappoint you more than you negative attitude towards people. It is as if people can’t even take a sh** without you reading something into it.
People are animals; they behave like animals, stop expecting them to behave like saints.
If you want someone to be you friend you need someone who is going to accommodate some of your quirks. they are not going to do that if you don't cut them some slack. There is nothing in it for them. |
Yes. This is all true.!! |
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PaganMom
Sea Gull
Joined: Nov 05, 2009
Posts: 218
Location: Middle Of Nowhere, BFE, The Deep South
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:25 pm Post subject: Re: Why do women always like to mess with guys? |
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| KenM wrote: | T
I have already said that I have to work on the 'lets be friends ' thing. I am trying. As far as the thing at BK with the other girl we went in she ordered the food for her and her friend. Then after she ordered she looks at me and asks if I wanted anything after she ordered the other food. Like I was not even there. Shbe used me plan and simple. |
That is not using you. That is asking you if you want something. She's ordering and she's asking if you want something too. It's offering to get you something to eat. Since you both knew you were stopping there I'm sure she figured that you might be hungry and if so then you would be thinking about what you want.
Exactly how is that using you? Would it not have been if she had asked you first? If she hadn't got her friend something to eat? How is that using you?
PaganMom |
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PaganMom
Sea Gull
Joined: Nov 05, 2009
Posts: 218
Location: Middle Of Nowhere, BFE, The Deep South
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: Why do women always like to mess with guys? |
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| Janissy wrote: | [
Yikes! You have a really low bar for what constitutes being used. If that's what qualifies as being used for you, a relationship with an NT woman is not possible. Maybe an AS woman. I don't know. But definately not an NT woman. You have to cut people some slack- a lot of slack and not be on hair-trigger alert for being used, disrespected or lied to. Because if what she did was unacceptable to you, then NT women as a whole are unacceptable to you. They are not going to morph into AS women just because you think that morally they ought to. And I don't know if an AS woman could bear the level of scrutiny that you bring to a relationship either, although they would fare better at being direct.
If you are willing to accept women for being themselves, a relationship is possible. If you are going to insist that ordinary behaviour (which this was) is unacceptably deceitful and constitutes using you, a relationship is not possible. |
I am an AS woman and I would have ordered exactly the same way. To me, she was polite and asking if he wanted anything.
PaganMom |
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0_equals_true
Genuine Charlatan
Joined: Apr 06, 2007
Age: 27
Posts: 7300
Location: London
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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People don't know what they want. Stop expecting people to decide on life changing things in a matter of seconds. You only think you know what you want. If you have never had a proper reciprocal friendship, you are craving a concept. You don't know if it will give you want you want until you have experienced it for real.
You shouldn't even start on romance, until you have figure out friendship first.
If people have a choice, and some people do have more options, then why would they want someone who holds them to account every minute of the day? That is what you call extremist.
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KenM
an i mal
Joined: Oct 16, 2005
Age: 41
Posts: 1290
Location: Mass. USA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: Why do women always like to mess |
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| 0_equals_true wrote: | | Let it drop |
Let it drop? It seems to me that people here keep bring this stuff up. I have said many times that I do need tro change my view on the let's be friends thing. How many times am I goning to get attacked for it?
I feel my ex airport friend used me and did not care or respect me.
Last edited by KenM on Mon Nov 23, 2009 5:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Janissy
Phoenix
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Age: 43
Posts: 1456
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: Why do women always like to mess |
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[quote="KenM"] | 0_equals_true wrote: |
Let it drop? It seems to me that people here keep bring this stuff up. I have said many times that I do need tro change my view on the let's be friends thing. How many times am I goning to get attacked for it?
I feel my ex airportg friend used me and did not care or respect me. |
Ok, I won't bring up the "lets be friends thing anymore. Fair enough.
However, if you think the (ex???) airport friend used you, didn't care anout you and disrespected you, a romantic relationship with a woman is very, very unlikely. Your bar for acceptable behaviour is simply too high. Or your bar for using/disrespecting is simply too low. It comes out to the same thing. What it comes out to is that you don't people any slack. I have almost certainly at various points behaved exactly like that woman and others have behaved exactly like her with me. I can't give exact examples because I don't keep score because it's not a problem. If it's a problem to you, then women (or perhaps people) in general are a problem to you. You can't expect women to live up to some sort of ideal you have in your head of what is ok for people to do. I don't think what she did was anything. But you have a problem with it.
If you can't accept people for who and how they are, you can't have a relationship. If you can't accept perfectly ordinary human behaviour because it doesn't conform to how you think people should be, you can't have a relationship.
There are two things you will need to do before a woman will want to stay with you.
1)cut slack- stop looking for things you think are examples of using,lying,manipulating, disrespecting etc. Because your bar for those things is WAAAYYY too low and so you will always find examples of those things. Ther things that you call using are notexamples of using. So cut slack. Then cut more. Then cut more.
2)Throw away the scorecard. If you keep score- she will leave
Remember, you are trying to attract a woman. If her life is not improved by being with you, she will not be with you. Why would she? What's in it for her? Try to look at it from a woman's point of view: why would she want to be with a man who is constantly holding her to account for her every move and every word? This would be horribly stressful for her. If a woman is stressed when she is with you and can't relax because she has to be on "respect and honesty" vigilance, she will not be with you. |
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PaganMom
Sea Gull
Joined: Nov 05, 2009
Posts: 218
Location: Middle Of Nowhere, BFE, The Deep South
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:22 pm Post subject: Re: Why do women always like to mess |
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[quote="KenM"] | 0_equals_true wrote: |
Let it drop? It seems to me that people here keep bring this stuff up. I have said many times that I do need tro change my view on the let's be friends thing. How many times am I goning to get attacked for it?
I feel my ex airportg friend used me and did not care or respect me.
EDIT: I am trying to post from my phone not coming out way I want. Will fix when I get home. |
I have looked at some of your other posts and you seem to bring it up yourself a lot, so it's obviously a problem for you. You say your trying to work on it, but there really isn't much to work on about the 'friends' thing. What exactly do you mean working on learning what "lets be friends" really means? That's what I don't understand. It's like when you learn to drive, someone tells you that a red light means stop. No matter what you want it to mean, or I want it to mean, it still means stop. Just like learning that 1 + 1 = 2. It's a polite way of saying that they don't want to date you. How do you mean you will 'work on it"? Do you mean working on accepting it?
How did she use you? By ordering first? How exactly did she use you?
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