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sunshower
Ethereality
Joined: Aug 18, 2006
Age: 21
Posts: 2448
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 Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Candymanic wrote: | Well this is certainly an issue that hasn't caused a great deal of personal introspection and personal angst /sarcasm mode off/
I must admit, reading some of the responses from the ladies of our fair forum's quite interesting. I've always had the 'male' side of this discussion (i know a fair few guys who are in the same boat), but to have the female side is both enlightening and intreging.
I've always been an avid hater of the seeming obsession the women around me have with 'bad lads', the c**ts, the arrogent p***ks and general folks who'll treat them like dirt, or are else, for want of a better word, lugheads (yeah, you can feel the love cant you? lol). |
Firstly, just to be clear, I dislike guys (and people in general) like this and actively avoid them. But often non-confident guys, and aspies (I've noticed from the posts on this forum) label all confident/outgoing/daring guys as jerks. Possibly out of jealousy? Possibly out of non-comprehension? I don't claim to know the reason.
It's a generalization. Most of the confident outgoing guys out there aren't jerks/assholes (this is only a very small proportion of the population - and in fact, I find from personal experience that the less confident more insecure guys mostly tend to be the jerks).
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I've always considered this sort of appeal 'bad lad syndrome'. To me, it's stemming from a seeming need for an exciting, 'dangerous' guy. As one of the few females i've talked to about this said, she liked the thrill of having such a 'dangerous' partner.
However, with what folks have been saying about the idea some women have of being able to change such 'jerks', as well as the whole jerkness for confidence thing, i guess this adds even more detail into the model. I suppose what women mostly want (and please correct me if i am incorrect) for the most part is excitement, and part of that is ignoring the plain but generally interesting and stable bloke for the exciting, rough and tumble guy they believe they can iron the kinks out of later. The fact they seem to be oozing in charisma and confidence (arrogence does have it's advantages) also makes it appealing, especially if it indicates the guy doesn't need supporting or molly coddling himself (something i don't think anyone wants to know they're getting into witha relationship. You want a partner, not a dependant afterall). |
Close, but not quite right. It is definitely because of the confidence, but not so much the "thrill" factor but the fact that people prefer to be around more confident people because being around a confident person makes one feel more confident in themselves. And as far as the daring/outgoing bit goes, I prefer a guy who's like this (not stupid though - I don't mean someone who does physical stunts to show off - I'm more talking about people who put themselves out of their comfort zone - and that's true daring) because it means they have an open mind, and are open to learning new things and having new experiences (which is what life's all about).
The thing is, I am a confident/outgoing person who forces themself out of their comfort zone myself, and I don't want to be saddled with someone who's going to hold me back in life by being to afraid to try new things, or too insecure to meet new people.
I guess this is a bit unusual for an aspie, but it doesn't mean I don't screw up socially all the time - I just like to put myself on the line and try more.
Anyway, went on a bit of a tangent but what I'm trying to say is that girls like confident guys (NOT jerks) because they're more able to adapt to the things the girl wants to do. Sounds selfish, but I'm sure guys too prefer to date a girl who will show interest in the same things they like. And as most girls are interested in socializing - voila! Most girls are attracted to confident guys who are more able to adapt to different social situations.
It's not all doom and gloom though, because a person can learn to be confident. I was extremely unconfident for most of my life, but to gain confidence I put myself out there on the line day after day, risking (and often getting) hurt, and being picked on for being outspoken and saying the wrong things. But if you hide away and say nothing at all, how can you ever learn to say the right things?
What I'm trying to get at is that every guy can learn to be confident, and what all takes to get there is courage and the ability to pick yourself up and try again no matter how badly you get hurt.
Strange as it sounds, no person on earth is given confidence for free. Confidence is earned through fire. Only for aspies the fire is 20 times hotter and more painful.
That's why confident guys are attractive; they have the strength of character to walk through the fire and come out the other side. BUT I believe a confident aspie guy would equally be 20 times more attractive, because they'd need 20 times the strength of character to survive the hotter fire. So that's why life, and love, is what you make of it.
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Saspie
Velociraptor
Joined: May 15, 2009
Age: 25
Posts: 400
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:07 am Post subject: |
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I see many insecure guys who have no luck with women complain that even though they are really nice, women do not go for them and go for jerks instead.
| sunshower wrote: | | But often non-confident guys, and aspies (I've noticed from the posts on this forum) label all confident/outgoing/daring guys as jerks. Possibly out of jealousy? Possibly out of non-comprehension? I don't claim to know the reason. |
Yes this is exactly what I think. Self-labelled "nice guys" are often deep down quite bitter at their bad luck with women and often have bad attitudes towards women when it comes down to it.
Confident and outgoing guys are not necessarily jerks. Some are, but so are some quiet, introverted men as well.
I personally have never had a boyfriend/fling with a guy that I would consider to be a jerk. I do not find them attractive at all. I know plenty of men who have stupid, nasty, controlling girlfriends as well as women with jerky boyfriends. It is not a gender-specific thing in my opinion. |
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KittenWithAWhip
Deinonychus
Joined: May 18, 2009
Posts: 314
Location: Where the wild things are...
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:07 am Post subject: Re: LADY'S: What's so attractive about a jerk? |
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| Adrenaline wrote: | | What's attractive about a jerk? |
Nothing, but sometimes a guy doesn't seem a jerk at first. It comes out later when the girl has already invested her time and her soul, and it's difficult to simply exit. Pathetic, yes, but it happens.
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KittenWithAWhip
Deinonychus
Joined: May 18, 2009
Posts: 314
Location: Where the wild things are...
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:08 am Post subject: Re: LADY'S: What's so attractive about a jerk? |
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| Adrenaline wrote: | | What's attractive about a jerk? |
Nothing, but sometimes a guy doesn't seem a jerk at first. It comes out later when the girl has already invested her time and her soul, and it's difficult to simply exit. Pathetic, yes, but it happens.
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GoatOnFire
Greatest Of All Time
Joined: Feb 23, 2007
Posts: 3995
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:10 am Post subject: |
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This topic again... 
Maybe it's because jerks have larger reproductive organs. 
Of course this topic has always been sticky because it's difficult to come up with a consensus of just what a jerk is.
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Oh say, can you see? Everyone is dumb but me. I'm never ever wrong, and that's all you'll ever be. |
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CrinklyCrustacean
Sea Gull
Joined: Mar 23, 2009
Posts: 232
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:16 am Post subject: |
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| GoatOnFire wrote: | | Of course this topic has always been sticky because it's difficult to come up with a consensus of just what a jerk is. |
Is it? |
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sunshower
Ethereality
Joined: Aug 18, 2006
Age: 21
Posts: 2448
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:14 am Post subject: |
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| CrinklyCrustacean wrote: | | GoatOnFire wrote: | | Of course this topic has always been sticky because it's difficult to come up with a consensus of just what a jerk is. |
Is it? |
I think it is. Everyone makes up their own definition to suit them 
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Who_Am_I
music_machine
Joined: Aug 28, 2005
Age: 26
Posts: 5251
Location: My body is in Brisbane and my mind is in the gutter. :D
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:19 am Post subject: |
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| sunshower wrote: | | CrinklyCrustacean wrote: | | GoatOnFire wrote: | | Of course this topic has always been sticky because it's difficult to come up with a consensus of just what a jerk is. |
Is it? |
I think it is. Everyone makes up their own definition to suit them |
Some guys seem to define it as "that guy who is dating the girl that I like".
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Music Theory 101: Cadences.
Authentic cadence: V-I
Plagal cadence: IV-I
Deceptive cadence: V- ANYTHING BUT I !!!!
Beethoven cadence: V-I-V-I-V-V-V-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I
-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I! I! I! I I I |
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Saspie
Velociraptor
Joined: May 15, 2009
Age: 25
Posts: 400
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:00 am Post subject: |
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| Who_Am_I wrote: |
Some guys seem to define it as "that guy who is dating the girl that I like". |
So true!!! |
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CrinklyCrustacean
Sea Gull
Joined: Mar 23, 2009
Posts: 232
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:04 am Post subject: |
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| Saspie wrote: | | Who_Am_I wrote: |
Some guys seem to define it as "that guy who is dating the girl that I like". |
So true!!! |
Hahahahaha - well I'm sure jealousy can play it's part! For me it's someone who 'cons' a girl into loving them and then takes advantage by using her just for sex, with no interest in who they are or anything like that. |
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Saspie
Velociraptor
Joined: May 15, 2009
Age: 25
Posts: 400
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| CrinklyCrustacean wrote: | | Saspie wrote: | | Who_Am_I wrote: |
Some guys seem to define it as "that guy who is dating the girl that I like". |
So true!!! |
Hahahahaha - well I'm sure jealousy can play it's part! For me it's someone who 'cons' a girl into loving them and then takes advantage by using her just for sex, with no interest in who they are or anything like that. |
Hrmm, you think that women are too stupid to realise that they are being used for sex and are so easily conned? It takes two to f*** (at least two anyway!). Firstly, some men use women for things, some women use men for things, it is a human thing, not a gender thing. Also define "using her just for sex"? There is nothing wrong with only wanting sex and perhaps the women you see that are "used" for sex actually prefer this? I know I have been with plenty of people just for the sex and had no interest in anything like who they are! But then again I made sure they were under no illusions about my interest in them... |
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MDD123
Phoenix
Joined: May 07, 2009
Age: 26
Posts: 555
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| CrinklyCrustacean wrote: | | Saspie wrote: | | Who_Am_I wrote: |
Some guys seem to define it as "that guy who is dating the girl that I like". |
So true!!! |
Hahahahaha - well I'm sure jealousy can play it's part! For me it's someone who 'cons' a girl into loving them and then takes advantage by using her just for sex, with no interest in who they are or anything like that. |
Well this is the dating forum, but when you get down to it, Jerk is just an emotive label. It just depends on your feelings about the word jerk and who you've chosen to label. Some people just label themselves as jerks and have a blast. Now that I think about it, some of those guys aren't even jerks, but I'd never tell them to their face. |
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billsmithglendale
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 18, 2008
Posts: 727
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| GoatOnFire wrote: | This topic again...
Maybe it's because jerks have larger reproductive organs.
Of course this topic has always been sticky because it's difficult to come up with a consensus of just what a jerk is. |
This might be more true than you think. I remember a study, years back, that found that confidence in men correlated with genital size. Not sure if that meant penis or testes, but the theory was that they either were confident because they knew they had nothing to be ashamed about down there, or that their larger genitalia was indicative of or causing higher testosterone levels, which also tends to boost confidence. |
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billsmithglendale
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 18, 2008
Posts: 727
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Candymanic wrote: |
.....I've always been an avid hater of the seeming obsession the women around me have with 'bad lads', the c**ts, the arrogent p***ks and general folks who'll treat them like dirt, or are else, for want of a better word, lugheads (yeah, you can feel the love cant you? lol). I've always considered this sort of appeal 'bad lad syndrome'. To me, it's stemming from a seeming need for an exciting, 'dangerous' guy. As one of the few females i've talked to about this said, she liked the thrill of having such a 'dangerous' partner.
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Honestly, that might be the problem more than anything else. If there's one thing women shy away from, it's a hater, for two reasons:
1. Haters make them feel uncomfortable -- After all, if haters attack those who are winners/winning, what does that say about them if you are not complaining about them (that they are losers?), and what do you say about them when their backs are turned?
2. Haters seem weak. By hating on someone, you give them power. Instead of concentrating on yourself and your business, you're threatened by everyone else. I was in this mode once, and it was a bad period in my life that only cost me friends, and did not make me any. If someone is truly bad, yet everyone still seems to love them, either re-evaluate your own opinions and motives, or just leave them alone (assuming they aren't actively attacking you) and let them hang themselves with their own rope (by their actions).
Women of course much prefer a self-confident or just happy "jerk", rather than someone who will make them feel insecure about themselves or someone who seems to be weak and ineffectual. This is just biology at work -- women pick men whose genes seem to give the best chances for offspring.
It is much better for the men here who have issues to work day by day to improve themselves, their social skills, the number and quality of social connections they have, and their career outlook. All of these things bring women -- pouting and self-sabotaging doesn't. |
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MikeH106
Phoenix
Joined: May 20, 2006
Age: 26
Posts: 1103
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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To all the women who have expressed a dislike of jerks: Good for you! You deserve a pat on the back.
To me, a jerk -- or as I call him, a sadist -- does not merely punish or even kill in order to correct behavior, but genuinely seeks to make sadness and suffering a part of society's plan. In this way, the jerk is distinguished from the outcast, and in a sense could be viewed as more evil.
Why would women be attracted to these 'jerks'? There are many possible explanations of this stereotype:
1. It is a lie concocted by men in order to increase feelings of paranoia.
2. Women have been made to like 'jerks' through deliberate social and genetic selection by men who were jerks.
3. Women find 'jerks' attractive for some trait they embody, such as confidence.
One remark about (3): You can find these traits in nice people, too. In fact, someone who seems like a 'jerk' at first might really be fighting against jerks and appear aggressive, independent, and self-serving for that very reason.
I hope that women will continue to appreciate the value of their children's feelings and not give into jerks.
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