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[quote="Speckles"]Well, it is possible he's just a dick. I just doubt it, since I have only met one teacher through my entire education who was truly horrible, and since I hadn't been diagnosed with anything at the time I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. But just because I've never really encountered one doesn't mean they don't exist. In my experience, the one's who ignored me were the worst, since they were the ones least likely to give me extra help. The pushy ones who doubted my disability and were nasty intially have been the best for me, since once won over they will often bend over backwards to try to help me. But, I have been good at winning teachers over for as long as I can remember. I have no idea why, and find it hard to believe, but I have been told this by many sources. So maybe it's just me. I'm glad you found some of my advise helpful. Some of it took a few years to figure out, and that's with a councellor that didn't suck! Hopefully this will let you skip some of the trial and error I had to go through :)[/quote]
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<table border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1" width="100%" class="forumline"> <tr> <th class="thCornerL" width="22%" height="26">Author</th> <th class="thCornerR">Message</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Cori</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://wrongplanet.cachefly.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 12:17 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">Well, thank you for letting me see it from a different perspective. You're right, she should have left the room and should have had an already established area where she should go to whenever she has a meltdown. I guess from a parent's point of view and upon reading that the teacher actually moved the entire classroom to a different location and the things he said to her, it just kind of rubbed me the wrong way. I think they both handled the situation incorrectly. But as the adult/teacher, he really should have been less humiliating, don't you think? I was very fortunate that my son had great teachers and during meltdowns they were very compassionate. But he also had a teacher that would refuse to let him enter his classroom until his schedule was changed.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Argon</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://wrongplanet.cachefly.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 8:29 am<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Spokane_Girl wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"> If any student acted that way, he would ask them to leave too, so it was not discrimination.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />As for venting Cori, there is a thread for that, also a forum for teens. <br /> <br />She was in the wrong. She used her AS as an excuse to get preferential treatment. <br /> <br />I suggest you read full what the OP wrote. The way she constantly refers to the teacher as 'Crawford' rather than Mr. Crawford...showing disrespect for his job as a teacher and authority. <br /> <br />The use of wording like 'he sighed sarcastically'...he probably just sighed in exasburation of what to do with a child refusing to work and also refusing the offer to leave the room. <br /> <br />As I see it he did his best in a bad situation, he does have 25 odd other kids to worry about too. The world cannot revolve around 1. <br /> <br />If she wishes to continue in mainstream schools then she will have to accept that she is not the exception to the schools rules because she has AS. <br /> <br />Again I'll repeat she was offered the opportunity to leave the room, she decided to stay and make a fuss.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Spokane_Girl</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://wrongplanet.cachefly.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:54 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Cori wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Argon wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Cori wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">This is outrageous! It's not called disability harassment, it's called discrimination and he needs to be punished for it! I would file a discriminatory complaint with OCR (Office of Civil Rights) naming the teacher and the school. He obviously needs some major training that the school needs to provide him with! Don't let him get away with what he did. He needs to be taken down a notch and if OCR contacts the school, he will be.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> Ok all I can say to that is LOL!!!. <br /> <br />*edit* <br />I did write 'grow up', but I have no doubt you are not an adult yet, to have written this. Most children dislike teachers. Teachers have a tough job and having to tread on eggshells with every student would make life almost impossible for them. <br /> <br />The class cannot revolve around one childs tantrums. I am thinking not to post here or come to this site again because it seems being aspie = being up ur own ass. The entire site is full of....oooo I'm so hard done by, evil NT's and we are so superior because we are aspie/autie. I think I'll keep any hint of asperger's to myself now, because I don't want people to be scared to say boo to me incase I start a law suit against them for discrimination.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />We're not talking about a lawsuit. This is just a complaint so that the teacher can be educated on different disabilities and shown how to handle certain situations when they arise. We're not talking about walking on eggshells here. He obviously did not cause her meltdown. He just made it worse. And yes, I am an adult. Sorry, it wasn't just a matter of saying "boo." This was extremely humiliating for her and it should have been handled differently. Why do you think IDEA and OCR exist? If you can't support people when they are venting, then what are you doing here and why do you have to be rude to others that are trying to help? Not very adult of you.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br /> <br />Hey I was sent back to the special ed room whenever I start to have one of my episodes. Was that wrong of my aid to do that to me? <br /> <br /> <br />Aspergers/autism is no excuse for that behavior in class, if we are going to act that way, we should leave the classroom or the teacher will have to ask us to leave. He gave her two options and she refused them both. She should learn how to control her meltdowns like learn to leave the classroom when she is starting to have one. She is using AS as an excuse if she thinks AS gives her the right to act that way and shouldn't have to leave the room and everyone else should tolerate it. I used to use my AS as an excuse too in my teens. Then I realized at 18 I should start taking responsibility about my condition and not to use it as an excuse or expect special rules like not having to enter the classrooms quietly when I am doing recycling. <br /> <br />If any student acted that way, he would ask them to leave too, so it was not discrimination.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>dongiovanni</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://wrongplanet.cachefly.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:31 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">I'll only discuss the sections with probative value: <br /></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>velodog wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"> <br />2)We should care how we present ourselves when we publicly proclaim ourselves as autistic. If we expect NT's (not my term) to understand us than perhaps we should reciprocate and try to understand their possible perspective as well. Or is it a one way street? <br />3)Is it even possible that the teacher may have thought she was sleeping? And I still believe that every possible battle is not necessarily one that it is wise to fight. Getting your ass kicked on a regular basis because you let the opposition pick the venue and circumstances will not give your side credibility for future engagements. <br />4)Try to sell that to the School Board and PTA. <br />5)Changing the worldview of the entire world sounds awfully akin to tilting at windmills to me. <br />7) This is a good deal of the differences between us, because I have not even known what AS is, much less Kanners Autism except for the last not quite 3 years. And I have not even suspected that I am on the spectrum until Feb. of 2007. It was not confirmed until 4/9/08, so I have had to learn job skills and kick bullies asses myself. And I do tend to take a pragmatic view of the world rather than an idealistic one. Contrary to what some respondents to this thread may think, I do not have any ill will or dislike of Teoka or other people who may have a different function level than myself.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />2) First of all, this is dangerous. Civil rights are won with unity, not with selective representation. In the Black Civil Rights struggle, there was MLK, but there was also Malcolm X, the Black Panthers, and (most likely) black people who fit the n-word stereotype that racists put on them to the T. Would it have been easier for MLK to say, "I have a dream today that my children will not be judged by the colour of their skin, but by the content of their character, unless they are extremely poor, unemployed, very vocal about their anger with white supremacism, communists, or anything else that white people don't like."? Most certainly. But that's not what civil rights in any sense is about. Autistic Rights is about rights for ALL autistics, whether they act in a way that makes autistics look good or not. As far as whether it's a one way street, I don't know what isolated situation you grew up in, but I've spent my whole life being trained to be accepted by NTs. I'm not saying it should be a one-way street, but right now, it is: we have to learn to be NT. So should I look at this teachers actions with sympathy? No; he's an NT Supremacist (and a narcissistic sadist) who wants all non-NTs to know his superiority. His actions speak to that. <br /> <br />3) Yes, that is possible, but he would not let it go, no matter how much evidence was thrown in his direction. Why? Because his classroom is his castle and he is KING! When Katie said, "CTFO, I'm autistic.", he took it as a challenge to his authority, dug in his heels, and started piling up the . <br /> <br />4)Yes, the PTA and the school board, those champions of disabled rights. Pardon my cynicism, but I don't think that these bodies that are often the embodiment of NT Supremacism would give us their free promotional pens if we didn't demand it. If anyone is supremely interested, I'll relay my own experience to speak to that. <br /> <br />5)Ergo, we can't get anyhing, so we should just take whatever the world gives us? No go for me. Maybe I'm foolish, but I'd rather fight for myself than just be society's perpetual bitch. <br /> <br />7)What about when personal pragmatism necessitates idealism for a group. I'm sorry, but how is fighting for the ideals of basic rights, in the long run, not the most utilitarian?</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Cori</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://wrongplanet.cachefly.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:50 am<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Argon wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Cori wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">This is outrageous! It's not called disability harassment, it's called discrimination and he needs to be punished for it! I would file a discriminatory complaint with OCR (Office of Civil Rights) naming the teacher and the school. He obviously needs some major training that the school needs to provide him with! Don't let him get away with what he did. He needs to be taken down a notch and if OCR contacts the school, he will be.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> Ok all I can say to that is LOL!!!. <br /> <br />*edit* <br />I did write 'grow up', but I have no doubt you are not an adult yet, to have written this. Most children dislike teachers. Teachers have a tough job and having to tread on eggshells with every student would make life almost impossible for them. <br /> <br />The class cannot revolve around one childs tantrums. I am thinking not to post here or come to this site again because it seems being aspie = being up ur own ass. The entire site is full of....oooo I'm so hard done by, evil NT's and we are so superior because we are aspie/autie. I think I'll keep any hint of asperger's to myself now, because I don't want people to be scared to say boo to me incase I start a law suit against them for discrimination.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />We're not talking about a lawsuit. This is just a complaint so that the teacher can be educated on different disabilities and shown how to handle certain situations when they arise. We're not talking about walking on eggshells here. He obviously did not cause her meltdown. He just made it worse. And yes, I am an adult. Sorry, it wasn't just a matter of saying "boo." This was extremely humiliating for her and it should have been handled differently. Why do you think IDEA and OCR exist? If you can't support people when they are venting, then what are you doing here and why do you have to be rude to others that are trying to help? Not very adult of you.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Argon</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://wrongplanet.cachefly.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 9:13 am<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Cori wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">This is outrageous! It's not called disability harassment, it's called discrimination and he needs to be punished for it! I would file a discriminatory complaint with OCR (Office of Civil Rights) naming the teacher and the school. He obviously needs some major training that the school needs to provide him with! Don't let him get away with what he did. He needs to be taken down a notch and if OCR contacts the school, he will be.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> Ok all I can say to that is LOL!!!. <br /> <br />*edit* <br />I did write 'grow up', but I have no doubt you are not an adult yet, to have written this. Most children dislike teachers. Teachers have a tough job and having to tread on eggshells with every student would make life almost impossible for them. <br /> <br />The class cannot revolve around one childs tantrums. I am thinking not to post here or come to this site again because it seems being aspie = being up ur own ass. The entire site is full of....oooo I'm so hard done by, evil NT's and we are so superior because we are aspie/autie. I think I'll keep any hint of asperger's to myself now, because I don't want people to be scared to say boo to me incase I start a law suit against them for discrimination.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Cori</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://wrongplanet.cachefly.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:05 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">This is outrageous! It's not called disability harassment, it's called discrimination and he needs to be punished for it! I would file a discriminatory complaint with OCR (Office of Civil Rights) naming the teacher and the school. He obviously needs some major training that the school needs to provide him with! Don't let him get away with what he did. He needs to be taken down a notch and if OCR contacts the school, he will be.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Argon</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://wrongplanet.cachefly.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:02 am<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Jellybean wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">Reading this was like reading my entire last three years of school. In my school for a total of one year, i was given a small red card which had 'this student requires time out' written on it. All I had to do was get the teacher's attention, show it them and leave the room, no questions asked, no laughter or unneccessary attention. I suggest you or your parents campaign for something similar.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Similar to the card my son was given, terrific idea.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Jellybean</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://wrongplanet.cachefly.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:01 am<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">Reading this was like reading my entire last three years of school. In my school for a total of one year, i was given a small red card which had 'this student requires time out' written on it. All I had to do was get the teacher's attention, show it them and leave the room, no questions asked, no laughter or unneccessary attention. I suggest you or your parents campaign for something similar.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Argon</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://wrongplanet.cachefly.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:20 am<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">Teachers have a hard job, if she was quite capable of saying 'I'm having a meltdown', then it wasn't much of a meltdown was it. I have freaked out, but I have left the room. It is not fair that 30 or maybe 40 other children have to take a test whilst one child sits wailing. <br /> <br />The needs of many etc, will always outweigh the needs of the one. That is a fact of life. If she wants to be accepted in mainstream schools then a modicum of effort is required on her behalf too....e.g. crap I can't stop this feeling happening, so I best remove myself. <br /> <br />My son can be problematic at school, he was given a pass so that when he is getting upset he can just walk to the desk show the teacher the pass and leave the room, no fuss no questions asked and no scene. That way as far as the rest of the class is concerned it may be a dental appointment. <br /> <br />At the end of the day teachers have their qualifications and you don't, so it's only you who will end up hurting, and if you want to be in mainstream schooling rather than special needs you must make at least some effort to fit in. <br /> <br />By shouting I have AS therefore, you need to accept me and my actions regardless of how disruptive they are. You are infact adding to the countless NT's feelings of ...'spoilt brat syndrome'. We only have your side that you were not disrupting the rest of the class. <br /> <br />If I had to take a test in a room with someone crying non stop. I'd freakout quite possibly and chuck them out myself. <br /> <br />*Edit* <br /> <br />Your actions may also cause resentment from your peers too, as in..."Oh god we don't have to put up with this crap all the time do we?, because no one is allowed to tell the AS girl she's pissing us off". <br /> <br />Acceptance is a two way street, and as your in the minority you will have to work harder than the majority, fact of life.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Bunni</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://wrongplanet.cachefly.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:03 am<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">This could have been handled in so many different ways. <br /> <br />I understand both sides quite well, but what didn't happen was validation and effective communication. <br /> <br />The teacher could have minimized the situation by coming over and quietly speaking his request, and explaining that it was he who was being disrupted from teaching the class. this might have been more easily understood, and made sence, giving you the more reasonable option of making a decision. <br /> <br />My daughter also hates to bring attention to herself so i understand quite well how the escalation of this only made matters worse. <br /> <br />The training alot of teachers seem to get is focused on controlling behaviors rather than understanding the differences. What controlling does is exacerbate behaviors. What effective communication does is validate the student while communicating the needs of all involved. Understanding is what needs to be taught. <br /> <br />Since the statistics now show 1 in 150 kids has autism, and clinicians feel it is under diagnosed, then something is going to have to be done in the way of a societal tilt. We don't expect blind people to see becasue it's inconvenient for the world that they don't. There is that understanding of what blind means. There will need to be such an understanding of Autism as well.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Teoka</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://wrongplanet.cachefly.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:02 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">Velodog, I'm glad you're not posting here anymore. Because, frankly, you are WRONG. There's no gray area, what my teacher did was WRONG. I don't see how yelling at a crying student can be justified. If you can, I'd rethink my moral code. Tough love doesn't work here. <br /> <br />If anyone thinks that I tried to use my AS as an excuse, you obviously don't know me at all. So listen up. Do you REALLY think I thought "I'm [tired, lazy, etc.], so I'm going to use my AS as an excuse to get away with [such and such]"? There's a fine line between explaining how something affected something else, and making up a BS excuse. <br /> <br />Excuse my German, but <span style="font-style: italic">alle Leute, die denken, dass ich falsch bin, können mein Teil saugen</span>. <br /> <br /> <br />Anyway, I would like to thank those of you who have been supportive and have defended me. <333 I couldn't hope for more from you guys!</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>velodog</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://wrongplanet.cachefly.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 3:47 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>anbuend wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">1)Trust me I'm not big on emotional "support" threads and that's not why I'm writing what I'm writing. <br /> <br />2)But most of the things people have come up with out of this have been tangents, or have been things to the effect of "This makes us look bad, so we should just berate the person for having fewer skills than we do in some areas." <br /> <br />3)When a teacher is able to be nasty to a person for "sleeping" when they are just shutting down and doing so in one of the most responsible and productive ways possible, that's discrimination. It doesn't matter whether a "victory" in this area is easy, it is not okay to turn around and try to bother the OP for not being in an easy situation. <br /> <br />4)The fact that the teacher thinks everyone in the class is entitled to have a class without people shutting down in it <br /> <br />5) You know, autism politics isn't just about "easy" situations where it's really really simple to get a "victory", and it isn't just for autistic people who "look nice" or have no real problems adapting to the world as it is. In fact, given that the point of autism politics is usually to change the world to make it more adapted to us (as in disability politics in general), I'd think it's more and more relevant the less and less an environment is adapted to a particular person. <br /> <br />6)And <span style="font-style: italic">way</span> relevant is that some autistic people think it's okay to draw a line between what they consider good auties and bad auties, and only fight for the people with the right set of skills, the right attitude, the easiest situations to figure out, etc. <br /> <br />7)Most political situations when it comes to disability are not neat and tidy, and they require actual work, actual stepping out of your comfort zone, all those kind of things that aren't fixed with a by-your-own-bootstraps kind of attitude. (Which is the least political attitude in this thread, really, since it just focuses on the person being discriminated against <span style="font-style: italic">being</span> the problem.)</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br />1) Emotional support threads. I was not being sarcastic when I said I would have responded different in the Haven. <br />2)We should care how we present ourselves when we publicly proclaim ourselves as autistic. If we expect NT's (not my term) to understand us than perhaps we should reciprocate and try to understand their possible perspective as well. Or is it a one way street? <br />3)Is it even possible that the teacher may have thought she was sleeping? And I still believe that every possible battle is not necessarily one that it is wise to fight. Getting your ass kicked on a regular basis because you let the opposition pick the venue and circumstances will not give your side credibility for future engagements. <br />4)Try to sell that to the School Board and PTA. <br />5)Changing the worldview of the entire world sounds awfully akin to tilting at windmills to me. <br />6)I have never stated an intent or desire to separate AS/HFA people from LFA Auties. <br />7) This is a good deal of the differences between us, because I have not even known what AS is, much less Kanners Autism except for the last not quite 3 years. And I have not even suspected that I am on the spectrum until Feb. of 2007. It was not confirmed until 4/9/08, so I have had to learn job skills and kick bullies asses myself. And I do tend to take a pragmatic view of the world rather than an idealistic one. Contrary to what some respondents to this thread may think, I do not have any ill will or dislike of Teoka or other people who may have a different function level than myself. <br /> <br />After this post I'll just leave this alone. Obviously I'm just getting in the way of progress for Autistic Rights, have a good life.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>anbuend</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://wrongplanet.cachefly.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:55 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">Trust me I'm not big on emotional "support" threads and that's not why I'm writing what I'm writing. <br /> <br />But most of the things people have come up with out of this have been tangents, or have been things to the effect of "This makes us look bad, so we should just berate the person for having fewer skills than we do in some areas." <br /> <br />When a teacher is able to be nasty to a person for "sleeping" when they are just shutting down and doing so in one of the most responsible and productive ways possible, that's discrimination. It doesn't matter whether a "victory" in this area is easy, it is not okay to turn around and try to bother the OP for not being in an easy situation. <br /> <br />As far as political issues go, I think the way some autistic people treat autistic people with fewer skills in certain areas is a <span style="font-style: italic">major</span> political issue within the autistic community. Especially when this person was not screaming, she was not throwing things, she was not hitting people, she was putting her head on her desk. <br /> <br />What the teacher did is akin to non-disabled people trying to throw people with severe cerebral palsy out of restaurants because their eating style disgusts other people. What many people on this thread are doing, is like when people justify throwing people out by saying "Well it <span style="font-style: italic">is</span> disgusting, how selfish to want to eat in a restaurant with everyone else when you can't chew quietly and you sometimes involuntarily choke, you have to think of everyone else here." <br /> <br />The fact that the teacher thinks everyone in the class is entitled to have a class without people shutting down in it <span style="font-style: italic">is</span> the problem, just like people who think they have some kind of right to eat in public without people with disabilities around <span style="font-style: italic">is</span> the problem in the restaurant situation I described. <br /> <br />Oh, and I should mention -- when I was 16 years old, I was in a small classroom in a barn. Four students including me. I was drugged to the gills and often nearly passed out in class and drooled all over. This was seen as harming the other students in some way, so instead of making the situation so that I wouldn't need to do that, they put me in a big chair facing away from everyone and blared audio books into my ears on a Walkman to keep me awake. I don't think that was the right thing to do in that situation, nor do I think that treating her like she's the problem is the right thing to do. <br /> <br />And that's the political issue. That's where the problem is. You know, autism politics isn't just about "easy" situations where it's really really simple to get a "victory", and it isn't just for autistic people who "look nice" or have no real problems adapting to the world as it is. In fact, given that the point of autism politics is usually to change the world to make it more adapted to us (as in disability politics in general), I'd think it's more and more relevant the less and less an environment is adapted to a particular person. <br /> <br />And <span style="font-style: italic">way</span> relevant is that some autistic people think it's okay to draw a line between what they consider good auties and bad auties, and only fight for the people with the right set of skills, the right attitude, the easiest situations to figure out, etc. <br /> <br />So yes, it's highly relevant as a part of a political situation, and many of the posts here are good examples of a huge part of the problem. Personally I think that if the autistic community only fights for people it finds "pretty" (not the word I'm after, but something like that), then it's being more lazy than it is political. Most political situations when it comes to disability are not neat and tidy, and they require actual work, actual stepping out of your comfort zone, all those kind of things that aren't fixed with a by-your-own-bootstraps kind of attitude. (Which is the least political attitude in this thread, really, since it just focuses on the person being discriminated against <span style="font-style: italic">being</span> the problem.)</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>velodog</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://wrongplanet.cachefly.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:29 am<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">anbuend, here is what the OP has reported herself as the result of the incident. Apparently she feels like a large portion of the student body considers her to be using her AS as an excuse to BS people. All because her lunch routine was changed. If this had been put in The Haven then I would not have responded the way I did, but it was posted here as a political issue, a fight to be won. Can you show me anything positive or even remotely resembling a victory that has happened to the OP as a result of this whole mess? <br />I work, in the workforce, with NT's, on a daily basis and I know what will and won't be tolerated by people running job sites that I work at. Some work places may choose to make allowances for meltdowns, I have not been to one that does. <br /> <br />Seriously anbuend if this situation looks to you like a winnable battle then I would like to know how. I have no influence over the people that Teoka references in the quote below. They made up their own minds about her sincerity, and while you may ( or may not ) be shocked that they came to the conclusions that they did, I am not. <br /> <br /> <br /></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Teoka wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">You all can stop assuming things about what my motivations were right NOW. <br /> <br />I was NOT trying to disrupt the class on purpose. I already feel like everyone thinks I'm psychotic now; do you have any idea how hard it is to go to school now?! It turns out that more people who I thought were my friends think that I'm using my AS as an excuse to BS people. I figure that in time they'll learn, but as it is now, it's more painful than anything I've ever dealt with before. I'd like to note that those closest to me do not make those assumptions. My family, boyfriend, and close friends know how I'm different. <br /> <br />I was upset because my lunch routine had been changed and I felt excluded! I'm sure at least some of you can relate to that! I was originally going to be fine and calm down on my own, which I have only in the past few years been able to do on my own, but the teacher's sarcastic comment was the straw that broke the camel's back. <br /> <br />I wasn't trying to show aspies in a negative or positive light. I was just going about my day which was going horribly wrong. And as much as we all try, we can't hide the negative aspects about AS. We can try our best to show that we're not all bad, but no one is all good..</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"></span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> </table>
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