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[quote="Kiseki"][quote="Halvorson"]I think I should state the obvious: Aspergers appears to be strongly correlated with trans-gender feelings- in girls. One of the most popular general autism theories is that of Simon-Baron Cohen (he's Borat's cousin), who sees autism as a result of an extreme male brain, one geared towards systemizing instead of empathisizing. He's long been trying to test the idea that this extreme male brain is the result of heavy prenatal exposure to testosterone, which presumably "masculinizes" the fetal brain and has found some sketchy support. I wonder if we could find any gay/trans-gender male aspies that would prove Cohen wrong.[/quote] I don't know about transgender, but I DO believe there is more of a proliferation of gay/bi/bi-curiousity in female Aspies than NT. I think it also has to do with the levels of testosterone produced in the womb. Autism is significantly more of a male-brain phenomenon and it might be interesting to note the number of straight female Aspies vs. LGBT.[/quote]
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<table border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1" width="100%" class="forumline"> <tr> <th class="thCornerL" width="22%" height="26">Author</th> <th class="thCornerR">Message</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Quartz11</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 10:18 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">I guess I might consider myself a middle of the road type of person. I really don't understand the whole dual gender thing, but it just seems to me I'm not the typical male and do have some female-ish traits and thoughts. I'm still trying to sort through all that madness in my brain. <br /> <br />Anyway, there have been a lot of times however - and especially in the last year or so - where I wish I was physically a female. At least having a strong curiosity of what it'd be like anyway.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Noxien</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 9:32 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">I often feel genderless, but there are moments in which I feel very masculine or very feminine. I can be all over the board with this, so I try not to pay much attention to accepted gender definitions.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Verdandi</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 7:28 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">I feel like the opposite, like I'm neither. <br /> <br />I don't feel like I have a gender, although I spent a long time trying to emulate it. I still like some of the trappings.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>TeaEarlGreyHot</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 12:39 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">I just tell everyone I am duel gendered. Sometimes I will express my female side more, and other times I express my maleness more. <br /> <br />An Aspie quirk? IDK about that. It seems to be more prevalent for those with Aspergers but it by no means is exclusive.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Ad</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:35 am<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">I am physically/biologically male and have felt Bigender since childhood. <br />As a child I didn't understand my gender well, but I would shift between stereotypes and later seperated into two "persona's"</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Matariki</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:18 am<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">I'm a male, in a female's body. <img src="modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_cool.gif" alt="Cool" border="0" /> <br />I've been diagnosed with GID, but I'm fairly happy. I'm just me.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>keerawa</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:56 am<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">I identify as gender-queer, myself. For me, 'gender-queer' is a way of saying "Male, Female, Tomato, Tomahto, let's call the whole thing off." <br /> <br />I've got breasts, and a vagina, and I'm perfectly happy with my body as is. But I can't fit myself into the female 'box'. When there's a discussion that breaks down along gender-lines, I always seem to end up 'one of the guys'. I was always a 'tom-boy', growing up. But I wouldn't consider myself masculine, either. Nor do I switch from a masculine to feminine gender identity based on the situation. I'm just always ... me.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>alice333</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:37 am<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">I realize now that I don't need to be ashamed or try desperately to suppress my self in all aspects , I can be myself, an Asperger's person who feels very Androgynous. I have grown up a lot and I am much stronger.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Draax</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:02 am<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Halvorson wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"> I wonder if we could find any gay/trans-gender male aspies that would prove Cohen wrong.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />i was born male and still am, bodily. for most of my 28 years i have suppressed my desire to be a girl. i dont anymore and have started seeing a therapist to begin the transition to female. the day when i can pass for female and be accepted as such will be the highest point of my life. though i have only recently stopped denying who i am, and only more recently still, started seeing a therapist about it, a moment in my first session with her will stay with me a long time: <br /> <br />i expressed concern to her that my case would be dismissed out of hand because i have aspergers syndrome and my trans feelings would be attributed to nothing more than an aspie fixation. she said that concern was unwarranted and went on to tell me that the center that i go to has seen quite a few transgendered aspies who have gone on to make a full and quite healthy transition. she also implied that gender issues are not only not unusual but are quite common in people with aspergers. <br /> <br /> <br />i hope the people who read this (and i've gathered that some/most of you do) that there is a very distinct diference between physical sex (presence of male or female genitals), sexual orientation, and gender identity. i have also seen mention of the gender identity spectrum, which i think i will now be forced to make my own poll of. <br /> <br />as a simple, but not at all diffinative way of testing your own gender identity, think about this mental exercise, and think carefully: <br />you wake up tomorrow and find that you have the body of the opposite sex, how would that make you feel? (dont think about what you would do, think about how you would FEEL) <br /> <br />if that happened to me, i would feel fantastic in a way that words could not describe; when i asked my roommate the same question (and he is a very masculine man), his immediate answer was that he would want to kill himself. <br /> <br />as a final note, im sure most of you are familiar with aspergian obsessions/fixations; one of mine is sexology. my therapist has said to me on several ocassions that this is an enormous boon in the therapy process because i can phrase my feelings in clinical ways that leave no amiguity as to their meaning. and in furtherance, my interest in sexology was spawned by my desire to be a woman, not the other way around.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Lirael</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:42 am<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">Born female, but am still figuring out my gender. Have both femine and male traits, so I feel more happy with 'androgyne'. The whole gender issue is in my case complicated because, my built, and partly clothes, meant, that throughout my childhood (and now) I was often seen as a boy... even in summer clothes after puberty kicked in (yep, have a clearly feminine build). The extreme cases: Being send away from the women's toilet and a bra-shop. The other thing that didn't help, was that my mother ridiculed femininity, like wanting to wear a skirt.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Rat_Barzane</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:53 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">I think I am bi-gendered, or androgen, whatever the term is.. Perhaps we need a list of definitions? lol <br />Born female, but always, as a child and adolescent wanted to be a boy.. Fitted in better with the boys, played with the toys and participated in many of the activities which are considered masculine... Never wear makeup, wear mostly mens clothing.. Hated my developing breasts! <br />Never got on with most girls, except those who are a bit 'strange' also <img src="modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif" alt="Laughing" border="0" /> <br />I'm also a lesbian but it took me a while to figure out, my interest in sex came along quite late, and not really knowing about sexual orientation I had some difficulties and went through an experimental stage.. I had big problems during adolescence because the guys I wanted to be friends with, playfight with etc always seemed to want a relationship, or think I wanted one.. As a result I even now have very few male friends since they always seem to become attracted to me. I also don't have many female friends because the average female thinks I'm a freak due to my introversion and crappy social skills (what the hell is with the small talk stuff anyway?)... I'm lucky though in that I have managed to form a small group of similar-minded friends. <br />Some of my confusion as a teenager was caused by thinking I was attracted to men, but I didn't want intimacy with them.. now looking back I see it was not that I wanted to be *with* them... It was that I wanted to *be* them <img src="modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif" alt="Laughing" border="0" /> <br />I have often in the past considered having a sex change, since it caused me much depression.. But nowdays.. Well, while I think life might be easier in some ways for me as a man, and most of my friends think of me as a male (one of my ex-housemates commented when i complained about period pain "Oh! I forgot your a girl!" lol).. I have come to terms with it and can live with it. Somewhere along the line I even found a little bit of feminine in me which shows through occasionally. I think I am predominantly masculine, but sometimes I switch for a day or so, just for fun <img src="modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt="Rolling Eyes" border="0" /></span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>jdcnosse</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 1:12 am<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">I'm bi-gendered, although I do like the term androgen better. I realized this when my mother told me it wasn't socially acceptable for a guy to wear womens thongs and jeans. I then researched it and the "gender and sex" topic is one of my "interests." lol <br /> <br />However I was also born with Cryptorchidism. Basically neither of my testicles descended at birth like they were supposed to and I had to have a double orchiopexy. This might be part of why I'm bi-gendered, as perhaps I have less testosterone then normal males do...</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Kiseki</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:46 am<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Halvorson wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">I think I should state the obvious: Aspergers appears to be strongly correlated with trans-gender feelings- in girls. One of the most popular general autism theories is that of Simon-Baron Cohen (he's Borat's cousin), who sees autism as a result of an extreme male brain, one geared towards systemizing instead of empathisizing. He's long been trying to test the idea that this extreme male brain is the result of heavy prenatal exposure to testosterone, which presumably "masculinizes" the fetal brain and has found some sketchy support. I wonder if we could find any gay/trans-gender male aspies that would prove Cohen wrong.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />I don't know about transgender, but I DO believe there is more of a proliferation of gay/bi/bi-curiousity in female Aspies than NT. I think it also has to do with the levels of testosterone produced in the womb. Autism is significantly more of a male-brain phenomenon and it might be interesting to note the number of straight female Aspies vs. LGBT.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>MoralAnimal</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:21 am<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">I have struggled with feeling like I am male and female my whole life. I recently came to terms with the fact that sometimes I feel male, sometimes female, but usually I don't feel like I am either. Its not that I am "genderless" but that I am mostly a "third gender". I am 23 and was just diagnosed with Aspergers. I have been rather shocked by all the things in my life that are "explained". Such as my odd gait, feeling like I am stupid when my IQ is high, not being able to process gluten or casein, social problems, my bipolarism and mood disorders, and sensory overloads. Gender issues, however surprises me. I'm kinda glad that there are other people out there like me and i'm not that weird or odd after all. <br /> <br />I spend a lot of time at the bigender form.... bigender. org. we always welcome the addition of new people that share this rare gift. <img src="modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif" alt="Smile" border="0" /></span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Lonesome</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 7:13 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">I have only recently been diagnosed with Aspergers and not been diagnosed with bi gender but as I've got older, more I've become wishing I wasn't a woman. As I've not had a good child hood and not got any guy friends to which I used to be closer to them than I was with women but then went to an all girls school and that changed. I have fancied a couple of girls to which none of my friends and family knows about but when I see a guy I fancy I get obsessed without meaning to plus only dated a couple of guys and no girls lol. But I've never found a nice guy to point I've hated their guts and I've never liked my womanly body and always said I want a hysterectomy I hate my body so much to which also made me realize I am jealous of guys having the body they have and not having the problems being a girl and also with what they can say and be able to say it without 'oh you shouldn't be saying that'. So I can relate with the bi gender as I am a girly girl at heart and always will be but act more immature as a guy with looking like a girl ie long blonde hair, naturally thin .... and always will be for rest of my life <br /> <br />Sorry if this has no meaning for this topic but from my interpretation it does lol.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> </table>
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