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[quote="Claire_Louise"]Hello. Please tell me, does anyone have or had PTSD, have loved ones with PTSD, or has experience with PTSD? When my sister, now 13, was 4, she experienced a traumatic event. Although my sister has never opened up about the extend of the effect it had on her, I only recently realised that it affects her whole life continuously. I did some research about what could have caused her to be so affected (as you do when you feel helpless) and came up with PTSD. The extreme anger and withdrawl symptoms that she has suffered from for the last 10 years, (getting continuously worse) fit perfectly with PTSD. I feel so guilty and blind that I could not have noticed the huge affect it had on her. Although this traumatic event involved me, I was not directly there, and it has not affected me hugely, therefore I assumed she was fine. I don't know what to do. Can anyone offer advice/help/anything else you can think of? And should I get additional help for her? Thank you so much :( :) :arrow: CL[/quote]
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<table border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1" width="100%" class="forumline"> <tr> <th class="thCornerL" width="22%" height="26">Author</th> <th class="thCornerR">Message</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>formapleleafs</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:39 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">i have severe chronic complex ptsd. I , too studies psych first time around in university. I think the previous poster was trying to say that often, too often, women with PTSD are given the DX of BPD most likely because the therapist is lazy and biased. This happens more than twice as often with women than men. Too lazy to look up exact stats on that right now. <br /> <br />Point is, PTSD can happen to anyone. Complex PTSD is a different monster that gets into every area of you life because you cannot process it. <br /> <br /> If you can ever find the book Achilles in Vietnam, it is the best book which describes the difference of Complex PTSD which your sister many have. For instance, someone may be very faithful and lose faith totally or become a "totally different person" Not just different likes and dislikes but a new person, broken and changed. <br /> <br />It is hell. Time stops and yu can see that same time like yesterday. Only you keep going on, like a shattered negative of yourself for a while, then you have to let it all go and it's like swimming in a dark ocean with a blindfold. <br /> <br />I am convinced that the brain feels something strange when I person dies. Only you are NOT supposed to feel that until you are about to die. It shatters all myths and is terryfying. Only you do NOT die with trauma, you live. Now what? <br /> <br />You can PM for any info you would like. <br /> <br />I did find DBT the ONLY thing that has worked. I did EMDR and had a seizure and it made it so much worse I cannot even like to mention the word. <br /> <br />I have tried all sorts of CBT therapies and everything you can think of. <br /> <br />BDT did help but it is hard to find. I have not had it in several years and am at such a low it's not funny. family away, thoughts all muddled...... <br /> <br />But I will help you in you need any info you might like. I hope she finds something.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Ahaseurus2000</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 4:45 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">I have had at least 3 traumatic episodes in my life. <br /> <br />The first was birth-trauma. An anomaly while still in-utero arrested my development, I became unwell straight after birth (as did my mother), and I spent 1 month in an incubation chamber with only clinical contact with other humans, and no contact with my mother. It has left me with life long anxiety disorder and tensioned my relationship with my mother. <br /> <br />The second was surviving attempted murder at school at age 13. It was witnessed by the whole class and teacher but nothing was done. The PTSD lasted throughout my teens and early adulthood and was untreated until I received SSRIs for treating anxiety (aropax). <br /> <br />The 3rd was in 2007 flatting with a nutty married couple. During a domestic incident I called the cops (it was a false alarm), afterward the wife had a hysterical fit, enraged, rambled incoherently, vaguely threatened me, and appeared about to have a psychotic break. I met with a mental health nurse and cried for about 10 minutes straight while saying "I thought she was going to kill me!" But because of that I recovered from the Trauma quickly.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>tangomike</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 2:36 am<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Mercurial wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>tangomike wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">Hi, <br /> <br />I dont exactly have Post Traumatic Stress Disorder although I have something similar called Borderline Personaltiy Disorder. </td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />I have PTSD, It is not like BPD. <br /> <br />BPD is a disorder of how the person's personality has developed. PTSD is an anxiety disorder that affects how the brain responses to stress. In PTSD, there are actual biochemical and neurological changes in the brain as the result of trauma or prolonged, extreme stress, which affect how memories are formed and how the body responses to percieved stress. PTSD is not just a psychological disorder--the neurological and physiological symptoms need to be address as well for effecive treatment.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br /> <br />i apologize for offending you Mercurial, but i do indeed have some post traumatic stress symptoms in addition to my BPD. I also have to disagree with you, BPD and PTSD are very often intertwined and co-morbid...espcially for ppl with aspergers. The very nature of BPD itself is pretty much somewhat PTSD (triggering psychotic episodes and depressive states). Many BPD's are diagnosed with PTSD....I just got my BA in Psychology and have interned for a short period at a psychiatric ward. My use of "toughening up" was meant as getting therapy and overcoming that shame- essentially that is toughening up- not letting it affect you anymore, there is nothing shameful about accepting your self perceived 'weakness' and then learning to develop a tougher skin to it. by definition that is what toughening up is. i was in no way implying that needing to 'toughen up' meant that they are weak and should take it as such- its what therapy trains you to do.- you first learn to accept and overcome whatever is constantly afflicting your mental state w/ help of therapy and medication and eventually learn to 'toughen' your mind against it...I just got my BA in psychology. <br /> <br /> When PTSD and BPD each stands alone then they look different, (a combat veteran who returned from the MIddle East with PTSD and a person who was emotionally, verbally and physically abused as a kid with BPD are going to exhibit very different symptoms ) but thats two very different forms of trauma- just trying to illustrate the differences <br /> <br />True, I am not qualified to make a diagnosis for Claire Louis's sister but its just a suggestion which is what a forum is for wouldnt you say? By no means did I say she should get DBT, i said she needed therapy and it just so happens that DBT is one form of therapy that works for some PTSD. If may not work with your particular PTSD but it might be a valid option for the person in question since we do not know the nature of the trauma. I agree that you should not make that info public and that the therapist should decide what course of action should be taken for your sister- find somebody who specializes in what your sister is experiencing- ive had very unhelpful therapists/psychologists (becuase it wasnt their specialty) treat me because they wanted my $$$ and kept reassuring me that they had experience in that area...and even I, a mere college student who has a BA in psych knew when they were talking out of their butt/a textbook.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Mercurial</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:28 am<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: PTSD - post traumatic stress disorder (please help)</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Claire_Louise wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">Hello. <br /> <br />Please tell me, does anyone have or had PTSD, have loved ones with PTSD, or has experience with PTSD? <br />When my sister, now 13, was 4, she experienced a traumatic event. Although my sister has never opened up about the extend of the effect it had on her, I only recently realised that it affects her whole life continuously. I did some research about what could have caused her to be so affected (as you do when you feel helpless) and came up with PTSD. The extreme anger and withdrawl symptoms that she has suffered from for the last 10 years, (getting continuously worse) fit perfectly with PTSD. I feel so guilty and blind that I could not have noticed the huge affect it had on her. Although this traumatic event involved me, I was not directly there, and it has not affected me hugely, therefore I assumed she was fine. <br /> <br />I don't know what to do. Can anyone offer advice/help/anything else you can think of? <br />And should I get additional help for her? <br />Thank you so much <img src="modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_sad.gif" alt="Sad" border="0" /> <img src="modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif" alt="Smile" border="0" /> <img src="modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_arrow.gif" alt="Arrow" border="0" /> CL</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />As I said above, I have PTSD. My best advice is not to rely on the internet to dx your sister. She needs to see a qualified therapist for evaluation. Please read my comment above on why PTSD is very different from most other psychological conditions. I have yet to find a person who recovered from PTSD without some medical intervention. It is not something you grow out of, bounce back from or put behind you without some help. It's improtant that you get the right help. <br /> <br />I do not think there is any reason for you to share the precise trauma your sister went through. And for her sake, I would suggest you don't. No one here needs to know that kind of information about her.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Mercurial</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:22 am<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>tangomike wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">Hi, <br /> <br />I dont exactly have Post Traumatic Stress Disorder although I have something similar called Borderline Personaltiy Disorder. </td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />I have PTSD, It is not like BPD. <br /> <br />BPD is a disorder of how the person's personality has developed. PTSD is an anxiety disorder that affects how the brain responses to stress. In PTSD, there are actual biochemical and neurological changes in the brain as the result of trauma or prolonged, extreme stress, which affect how memories are formed and how the body responses to percieved stress. PTSD is not just a psychological disorder--the neurological and physiological symptoms need to be address as well for effecive treatment. <br /> <br /></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Quote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">I would say the best kind of treatment is DBT, or Dialetical Behaviour Therapy which is a way to correct negative thinking and overcoming/toughening up against your trauma. im going to start it in a few weeks and im relieved that ill be starting my recovery. You should look into this for your sister, i think it will help her.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br /> <br />Granted, I think you're very unqualified to make such a suggestion. DBT has shown to help in some cases of PTSD, but only a qualified therapist can decide if it is appropraite for an particular person with PTSD. It was not, for example, appropriate for me and my particular type of trauma. <br /> <br />Overall, the idea that an PTSD sufferer needs to "toughen up"--that's going down the very wrong path with any PTSD sufferer. Please do not use that kind of language with someone with PTSD. Most people with PTSD feel a profound sense of shame over what they think is their "weakness" in the face of whatever trauma they experienced, and telling them they need to "toughen up" only re-inforces that shame. Overcoming that shame is a very critical step in the recovery of anyone with PTSD, because it allows the person to accept the full reality of this disorder--it is not merely a psychological disorder, but one that impacts the brain and body well beyond our psychological state. <br /> <br />Thinking that recovering from PTSD is just about being able to psychologically cope with the trauma has keep many PTSD sufferers from getting the kind of treatment they have needed. In many cases, treatment of the psychological symptoms of PTSD cannot begin until the neurological and physicological symptoms are managed--and that often requires medication or other forms of therapy. Sometimes, as was my case, once the neurological and physiological symptoms are managed, the person does not require much in the way of psychological treatment, as those symptoms alleviate once the neurological and physiological symptoms are addressed.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Claire_Louise</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:38 am<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">Sorry, if someone really wants to know what happened, they would have to pm me - not that I don't trust anyone, but I don't want this on the internet forever <img src="modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif" alt="Smile" border="0" /> Just saying it wasn't rape, kidnapping, or direct assault. <br /> <br />Thanks for all your advice, I will chech up on all therapies mentioned, and thanks for taking time to answer <img src="modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif" alt="Smile" border="0" /> <br /> <br />@ Tangomike - You're not alone in your experiences. I think attacts to self esteem are almost as bad as they come.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>jojobean</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:29 am<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">there has been some studies that show that mindfulness meditation works very well for PTSD in soldiers returning from war. Basicly it is learning to keep your thoughts in the present moment and not alowing thoughts of the past to re-traumatize you, and the worries and hopelessness of the imaginings of the future frighten you. It is a mental extersize used by buddhists for almost a thousand years</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>tangomike</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:48 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">Hi, <br /> <br />I dont exactly have Post Traumatic Stress Disorder although I have something similar called Borderline Personaltiy Disorder. My self esteem has been attacked continuously at home, school and other places since I was a child. my parents always demanded and never gave me options, i was overweight, im not good looking, i have limited social skills, im clumsy and just above average intelligence. That alone wasnt so bad but I attended one of the most prestigious high schools in America with the best athletic program so i was always with people who were rich, attractive, smart and athletic - people who go on to be lawyers, politicians, pro athletes (some of my school mates are already pro surfers, pro golfers, musicians and D-1 college athletes and many of my football teammates play for big universities like Notre dame, USC, Hawaii, UCLA, Stanford, Washington)...and being next to those elites while being me had a terrible psychological impact- i learned that i was not as good as my peers and friends in terms of appearance, social skills, intelligence and athletic abilities....at least many aspies are seen as the genius or smart a$$ of their school...not me. I'm smarter than most people and know 3 languages but that didnt even set me apart from my peers, they were even smarter and most knew a second language as well. i had nothing to set me above anyone in any aspect because i went to such a prestigious school filled with only the cream of the crop. my self esteem is non existant and i feel like i am worth nothing, and when i believe that it starts becoming true. ive kept it all in and havnt told anyone till recently and so nobody had any idea that i was suffering with such anger, bitterness and depression. Holding it all in is the worst thing your sis can do, she needs therapy. <br /> <br />While my trauma isnt as bad as say rape, assault or kidnapping being continuously called stupid, weird, awkward, fat and even Asian for years did its toll on me. now i hate my own heritage and have body dysmorphic disroder. Im hyper sensitive to criticism and rejection meaning that when I see one person look at me with a condesending smile or a look on their face that says, "wow you have no social skills" it destroys me for the rest of the day and even days after...or when I start dating a girl but she soon realizes that im just not worth her time that destroys me 50x worse...and recently I just lost all of my friends in college and transferred home. I blew up at them and the world because I was so angry at random rejections, my roommates being loud all the time and having ppl over when i wanted peace and quiet, mad anxiety and feeling like I had no support....so i lost 20 friends as well as my reputation as a chill guy and instead now everybody at my college who once knew me or knew of me thinks im insane and a threat to society- going as far as to call me a stalker and the next Va tech killer... so YES i do have some kind of post traumatic stress. just one thought about how I lost my friends and my self esteem sends me into a depressive rut and sometimes even suicidal- it just takes one thought and im spiralling out of control <br /> <br />I would say the best kind of treatment is DBT, or Dialetical Behaviour Therapy which is a way to correct negative thinking and overcoming/toughening up against your trauma. im going to start it in a few weeks and im relieved that ill be starting my recovery. You should look into this for your sister, i think it will help her. <br /> <br />Good luck <br /> <br /><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectical_behavior_therapy" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectical_behavior_therapy</a></span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Wallourdes</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:48 am<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">I was never diagnosed, but i've had long-term life-threatning situations to deal with in the recent past and those really got to me. <br /> <br />If you're sister has a unprocessed traumatic event then she should get professional help for it, those things really eat away at a person, I am not just talking about my own experiences here. <br /> <br />Depending on the type of trauma, there are different methods. It's hard for me to judge what is the best approach - I need more info on the situation. <br /> <br />For your information: I am studying for Social Worker, have field experience with traumatized males and females, have personal experience with trauma and life events. <br /> <br />Cheerfully, <br />Wallourdes</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Claire_Louise</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 3:17 am<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: PTSD - post traumatic stress disorder (please help)</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">Hello. <br /> <br />Please tell me, does anyone have or had PTSD, have loved ones with PTSD, or has experience with PTSD? <br />When my sister, now 13, was 4, she experienced a traumatic event. Although my sister has never opened up about the extend of the effect it had on her, I only recently realised that it affects her whole life continuously. I did some research about what could have caused her to be so affected (as you do when you feel helpless) and came up with PTSD. The extreme anger and withdrawl symptoms that she has suffered from for the last 10 years, (getting continuously worse) fit perfectly with PTSD. I feel so guilty and blind that I could not have noticed the huge affect it had on her. Although this traumatic event involved me, I was not directly there, and it has not affected me hugely, therefore I assumed she was fine. <br /> <br />I don't know what to do. Can anyone offer advice/help/anything else you can think of? <br />And should I get additional help for her? <br />Thank you so much <img src="modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_sad.gif" alt="Sad" border="0" /> <img src="modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif" alt="Smile" border="0" /> <img src="modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_arrow.gif" alt="Arrow" border="0" /> CL</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> </table>
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