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[quote="conan"][quote="TheKing"]scientists are researching Telomere shortening and the enzyme Telomerase as a possible cure for both aging and cancer)[/quote] nup, sorry. telomere shortening is definitely a factor in DNA damage with respect to aging and cancer but it is a very small part of a foooooooking massive picture. Trust me, i'm studying molecular genetics :lol:[/quote]
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<table border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1" width="100%" class="forumline"> <tr> <th class="thCornerL" width="22%" height="26">Author</th> <th class="thCornerR">Message</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>TheKing</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:37 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>conan wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">it's not that simple. if you looked at the actual papers the scientist were writing they would really not be jumping to conclusions like almost every news source about science does. <br /> <br />it is fascinating stuff and will play a part but like i said. it is a small part of the picture. You can't cure aging or cancer with one enzyme. one problem is that there will be other problems that arrise if you then decide to extend the cell's proliferating capacity beyond normal. <br /> <br />Why is it that cancer cells are able to proliferate indefinitely rather than 80 times? partly because of telomerase in some cases! have a look at the HeLa cell line. from wiki "A proposed treatment for cancer is a telomerase inhibitor that would prevent the restoration of the telomere, allowing the cell to die like other body cells." This and many other things should lead one to the conclussion that gene expression leading to protein synthesis and it's effect are entirely contextual. <br /> <br />i'm not saying it's not going to happen but i'm saying just inducing expression of one gene does not mean much, particularly in multicellular organisms. it's certainly will happen if research is pushed in the right direction. <br /> <br />i'm not sure about stem cells and the Hayflick limit. <a href="http://www.molecularstation.com/wiki/Hayflick_limit#Cell_Types.2C_Cell_Lines_and_the_Hayflick_Limit" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" class="postlink" >here</a> says that " Stem cells, by definition, have not yet been fully differentiated, and therefore many of these cells may continue to regenerate new cells for the entire lifespan of the organism, without limit, thus constituting a notable exception to the Hayflick limit in humans and other organisms." <br /> <br /> i think there are many many exceptions to the hayflick limit <br /> <br />i can't say i'm that familiar with cancer or the process of aging beyond cell senescence and apoptosis and a bit about the cell cycle but i do know that any given cell is full of interdependencies, trade offs, contexts etc etc. still, it is an interesting point and i hope you become a biologist!</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />i used to want to be a BioMedical Gerontologist but im deciding to be a US History and Gov/Econ teacher, my aspie obsession is with learning and that led me to the Life Extension movement, i figure the longer i live the more i can learn. the Life Extension movement led me to Transhumanism and the exciting frontier of the future</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>TheKing</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:30 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>conan wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">it's not that simple. if you looked at the actual papers the scientist were writing they would really not be jumping to conclusions like almost every news source about science does. <br /> <br />it is fascinating stuff and will play a part but like i said. it is a small part of the picture. You can't cure aging or cancer with one enzyme. one problem is that there will be other problems that arrise if you then decide to extend the cell's proliferating capacity beyond normal. <br /> <br />Why is it that cancer cells are able to proliferate indefinitely rather than 80 times? partly because of telomerase in some cases! have a look at the HeLa cell line. from wiki "A proposed treatment for cancer is a telomerase inhibitor that would prevent the restoration of the telomere, allowing the cell to die like other body cells." This and many other things should lead one to the conclussion that gene expression leading to protein synthesis and it's effect are entirely contextual. <br /> <br />i'm not saying it's not going to happen but i'm saying just inducing expression of one gene does not mean much, particularly in multicellular organisms. it's certainly will happen if research is pushed in the right direction. <br /> <br />i'm not sure about stem cells and the Hayflick limit. <a href="http://www.molecularstation.com/wiki/Hayflick_limit#Cell_Types.2C_Cell_Lines_and_the_Hayflick_Limit" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" class="postlink" >here</a> says that " Stem cells, by definition, have not yet been fully differentiated, and therefore many of these cells may continue to regenerate new cells for the entire lifespan of the organism, without limit, thus constituting a notable exception to the Hayflick limit in humans and other organisms." <br /> <br /> i think there are many many exceptions to the hayflick limit <br /> <br />i can't say i'm that familiar with cancer or the process of aging beyond cell senescence and apoptosis and a bit about the cell cycle but i do know that any given cell is full of interdependencies, trade offs, contexts etc etc. still, it is an interesting point and i hope you become a biologist!</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />i see your point, scientists have said that Telomerase is always present in cancer but to be fair they are working on having Telomerase create mutated Telomeres in cancerous tissue <br /> <br /><a href="http://mcr.aacrjournals.org/content/3/9/477.full" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://mcr.aacrjournals.org/content/3/9/477.full</a> <br /> <br />studies in mice show it greatly decreased tumor growth and some regression of the tumors <br /> <br />that's what i love about science, is its flexibility <br /> <br />i have a couple PDF docs on the subject, since i don't have a computer anymore, i am on my PS3 so here are the links to a few of them <br /><a href="http://staff.washington.edu/mwhiddon/Shayetal.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://staff.washington.edu/mwhiddon/Shayetal.pdf</a> <br /><a href="http://www.agnos.nl/downloads-2/files/BlascoStemCells2007.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.agnos.nl/downloads-2/files/BlascoStemCells2007.pdf</a> <br /><a href="http://www.terraternal.com/Files/TelomereShorteningAndAging.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.terraternal.com/Files/TelomereShorteningAndAging.pdf</a> <br /><a href="http://www.benthamscience.com/open/tolsj/articles/V002/23TOLSJ.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.benthamscience.com/open/tolsj/articles/V002/23TOLSJ.pdf</a> <br /> <br />last year i wrote my own little thesis on Life Extension using synthetic biology and stem cells for my AP English class, me and several teachers got together to review it and biggest problem was cancer. i noticed cancer is the biggest problem of every theory for Life Extension</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>conan</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:10 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">it's not that simple. if you looked at the actual papers the scientist were writing they would really not be jumping to conclusions like almost every news source about science does. <br /> <br />it is fascinating stuff and will play a part but like i said. it is a small part of the picture. You can't cure aging or cancer with one enzyme. one problem is that there will be other problems that arrise if you then decide to extend the cell's proliferating capacity beyond normal. <br /> <br />Why is it that cancer cells are able to proliferate indefinitely rather than 80 times? partly because of telomerase in some cases! have a look at the HeLa cell line. from wiki "A proposed treatment for cancer is a telomerase inhibitor that would prevent the restoration of the telomere, allowing the cell to die like other body cells." This and many other things should lead one to the conclussion that gene expression leading to protein synthesis and it's effect are entirely contextual. <br /> <br />i'm not saying it's not going to happen but i'm saying just inducing expression of one gene does not mean much, particularly in multicellular organisms. it's certainly will happen if research is pushed in the right direction. <br /> <br />i'm not sure about stem cells and the Hayflick limit. <a href="http://www.molecularstation.com/wiki/Hayflick_limit#Cell_Types.2C_Cell_Lines_and_the_Hayflick_Limit" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" class="postlink" >here</a> says that " Stem cells, by definition, have not yet been fully differentiated, and therefore many of these cells may continue to regenerate new cells for the entire lifespan of the organism, without limit, thus constituting a notable exception to the Hayflick limit in humans and other organisms." <br /> <br /> i think there are many many exceptions to the hayflick limit <br /> <br />i can't say i'm that familiar with cancer or the process of aging beyond cell senescence and apoptosis and a bit about the cell cycle but i do know that any given cell is full of interdependencies, trade offs, contexts etc etc. still, it is an interesting point and i hope you become a biologist!</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>TheKing</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:44 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>conan wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>TheKing wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">scientists are researching Telomere shortening and the enzyme Telomerase as a possible cure for both aging and cancer)</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />nup, sorry. <br />telomere shortening is definitely a factor in DNA damage with respect to aging and cancer but it is a very small part of a foooooooking massive picture. Trust me, i'm studying molecular genetics <img src="modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif" alt="Laughing" border="0" /></td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br /><a href="http://www.lanl.gov/news/releases/archive/00-057.shtml" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.lanl.gov/news/releases/archive/00-057.shtml</a> <br /> <br /><a href="http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/11/mouse-aging-reversal/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/11/mouse-aging-reversal/</a> <br /> <br />thats the point, cells can only duplicate around 80 times before the Telomeres are so short that the cells die, scientists are trying to cure ageing and cancer with the enzyme Telomerase, which prevents the Telomeres from shortening.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>shrox</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:27 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>conan wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>TheKing wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">scientists are researching Telomere shortening and the enzyme Telomerase as a possible cure for both aging and cancer)</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />nup, sorry. <br />telomere shortening is definitely a factor in DNA damage with respect to aging and cancer but it is a very small part of a foooooooking massive picture. Trust me, i'm studying molecular genetics <img src="modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif" alt="Laughing" border="0" /></td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />You beat me to this one, I was going to point out how bad Telomere shortening would be! You run out of telomeres, your DNA unravels!</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>conan</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:16 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>TheKing wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">scientists are researching Telomere shortening and the enzyme Telomerase as a possible cure for both aging and cancer)</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />nup, sorry. <br />telomere shortening is definitely a factor in DNA damage with respect to aging and cancer but it is a very small part of a foooooooking massive picture. Trust me, i'm studying molecular genetics <img src="modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif" alt="Laughing" border="0" /></span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>TheKing</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:04 am<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>advancedatheist wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>TheKing wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">. im a Transhumanist, i have optimistic hopes for the future and regarding questors claim Molecular Nanotechnology looks very promising in reviving the cryo patients, Indefinite Life Extension will probably be solved in my lifetime(scientists are researching Telomere shortening and the enzyme Telomerase as a possible cure for both aging and cancer) so its unlikely i will need to sign up for Alcor anyway but if i do it will be for a "just in case" scenario</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />You sound like a young'un to me. I turn 53 this year, and I've lived with these ideas for nearly 40 years,since I read Robert Ettinger's book <span style="font-style: italic">Man Into Superman</span>. I've also had arrangements for my cryonic suspension with Alcor since 1990. Take it from a sympathetic elder: We cryonicists have a long, hard slog ahead of us, and we can't depend on gimmicky techno-fads like "Molecular Nanotechnology" to solve our problems. In fact I've lately suspected that "Molecular Nanotechnology" as presented by Drexler and his pals can't exist because it gets the physics wrong. By contrast look at the rapid progress in human genomics in the past 30 years. Why do organizations like 23andMe have the ability to tell you all kinds of stuff about your genome which you didn't know before, like how much Neandertal DNA you have, when we still don't have anything like a "nanoassembler" to speak of since Drexler popularized the idea in the 1980's? <br /> <br />Who has a more credible track record for doing many of the things they claim, in other words? Nanotechnologists? Or genomicists?</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />that's just a possible idea, Nick Bostrom(professor of philosophy at Oxford) said the beauty of Transhumanism is that there are countless ways to get to our goals. im glad to see a fellow Cryonicist here, are you a Transhumanist also by chance? i have only been into Transhumanism for 3 years but i have dozens of books and articles about Transhumanism on PDF and have been absorbing as much as i can, my age is a gift and a curse, im too young to get seriously involved in anything(after i get a job i want to start attending events like the Singularity Summit), but it's also a gift because i may still be alive when most of the technology we discuss actually comes about, i wish i was smart enough to actually help out, i don't have a superior intelligence, only above average. but i will support it however i can until our goals are met, it's the least i can do</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>TheKing</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:38 am<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: Cryogenics</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>advancedatheist wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>questor wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">Don't waste your money, this is a scam. Although there are ways to jump start the heart and lungs, there is no known way, and none likely in the foreseeable future of reanimating your brain. </td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Refer to my post about Sebastian Seung's book regarding the scientific aspects of preserving human brains to protect their connectomes. <br /> <br />As for the "scam" accusation,, why do cryonics organizations accept as members people who according to the actuarial tables won't likely die for many decades?</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br /> <br />out of Alcor's 1000+ members, only a little over 100 are dead</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>advancedatheist</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:14 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>TheKing wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">. im a Transhumanist, i have optimistic hopes for the future and regarding questors claim Molecular Nanotechnology looks very promising in reviving the cryo patients, Indefinite Life Extension will probably be solved in my lifetime(scientists are researching Telomere shortening and the enzyme Telomerase as a possible cure for both aging and cancer) so its unlikely i will need to sign up for Alcor anyway but if i do it will be for a "just in case" scenario</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />You sound like a young'un to me. I turn 53 this year, and I've lived with these ideas for nearly 40 years,since I read Robert Ettinger's book <span style="font-style: italic">Man Into Superman</span>. I've also had arrangements for my cryonic suspension with Alcor since 1990. Take it from a sympathetic elder: We cryonicists have a long, hard slog ahead of us, and we can't depend on gimmicky techno-fads like "Molecular Nanotechnology" to solve our problems. In fact I've lately suspected that "Molecular Nanotechnology" as presented by Drexler and his pals can't exist because it gets the physics wrong. By contrast look at the rapid progress in human genomics in the past 30 years. Why do organizations like 23andMe have the ability to tell you all kinds of stuff about your genome which you didn't know before, like how much Neandertal DNA you have, when we still don't have anything like a "nanoassembler" to speak of since Drexler popularized the idea in the 1980's? <br /> <br />Who has a more credible track record for doing many of the things they claim, in other words? Nanotechnologists? Or genomicists?</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>advancedatheist</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:04 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Re: Cryogenics</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>questor wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">Don't waste your money, this is a scam. Although there are ways to jump start the heart and lungs, there is no known way, and none likely in the foreseeable future of reanimating your brain. </td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Refer to my post about Sebastian Seung's book regarding the scientific aspects of preserving human brains to protect their connectomes. <br /> <br />As for the "scam" accusation,, why do cryonics organizations accept as members people who according to the actuarial tables won't likely die for many decades?</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>advancedatheist</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:00 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">Neuroscientist Sebastian Seung defends cryonics as a reasonable medical experiment in his new book <span style="font-style: italic">Connectome: How the Brain's Wiring Makes Us Who We Are</span>.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>TheKing</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:32 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>shrox wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">The problem of water crystallizing still has not been fully solved. Like a can of soda left in the freezer, the cell walls rupture as the remaining water in the antifreeze-flushed cells freezes and expands.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />the process of Vitrification is used to reduce damage. im a Transhumanist, i have optimistic hopes for the future and regarding questors claim Molecular Nanotechnology looks very promising in reviving the cryo patients, Indefinite Life Extension will probably be solved in my lifetime(scientists are researching Telomere shortening and the enzyme Telomerase as a possible cure for both aging and cancer) so its unlikely i will need to sign up for Alcor anyway but if i do it will be for a "just in case" scenario</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>shrox</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:24 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">Maybe running a very powerful magnetic field through the body as it freezes could hold the hydrogen atoms of the water molecules in place to prevent crystallization.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>conan</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:52 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">things could very well have changed quite a lot by the time you die and maybe the freezing process could be improved. <br /> <br />I find this quite interesting <br /><a href="http://labs.fhcrc.org/roth/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" class="postlink" >http://labs.fhcrc.org/roth/</a> <br /><a href="http://www.ted.com/talks/mark_roth_suspended_animation.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" class="postlink" >http://www.ted.com/talks/mark_roth_suspended_animation.html</a></span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Fnord</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:56 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">In the fifty-plus years of cryonics, there is no record of anyone having been frozen at the moment of death, and then being successfully revived. <br /> <br />The cryonic process eventually turns their brains into organic mush.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> </table>
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