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[quote="Tuttle"][quote="aghogday"] For the individual I was responding to in that post it was an autistic specific issue. It is a fact that sympathy is shown in other cases of murder-suicides/filicides where autism is not a factor as well as disability. I've already provided evidence of this through examples of combat veterans. [/quote] It was not an autistic specific issue for me. Can you please not be making statements about my views on subjects instead of your own? People with mental disabilities as a whole are treated differently than those who are neurotypical (note I did say neurotypical and not "allistic" for a reason). This does have an affect on how people react to the murder of these people.[/quote]
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<table border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1" width="100%" class="forumline"> <tr> <th class="thCornerL" width="22%" height="26">Author</th> <th class="thCornerR">Message</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>aspecialspace</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:32 am<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">I wrote a blog post about this very thing. Autism Speaks annoyed me with this "campaign". <br /><a href="http://aspecialspace.org/light-it-up-blue/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://aspecialspace.org/light-it-up-blue/</a> <br /> <br />Light it up Blue? <br /> <br />-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- <br /> <br />Posted on March 30th, by Bonnie in Education. No Comments <br /> <br />-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- <br /> How many of you are aware of Autism Speak’s “Light it up Blue” initiative? <br /> <br />According to their site at <a href="http://www.lightitupblue.org/Markslist/home.do?utm_source=internal_link&utm_medium=heroes&utm_campaign=2012liub," rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.lightitupblue.org/Markslist/home.do?utm_source=internal_link&utm_medium=heroes&utm_campaign=2012liub,</a> this April 2nd, for World Autism Day, businesses, buildings and front porches are supposed to change their white lightbulbs to blue. <br /> <br />I think it’s a cool concept…don’t get me wrong. But how does this raise awareness or anything else for autism? I’m thinking that the CDC’s announcement yesterday that the rates of autism are now 1 in 88 children and the news coverage of this national epidemic raise much more awareness of the spectrum and early diagnosis/early intervention than some downtown buildings having blue lights. <br /> <br />So go ahead and Light it up Blue. But sharing data, facts, symptoms, treatments and support will last a lot longer, go a lot further, and enlighten people much longer than just a day of blue lightbulbs. <br /> <br /> <br /> <br />--------------------------------------------------------------------------------</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Tuttle</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:51 am<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>aghogday wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Tuttle wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">All I am saying in my response is that I'm not limiting it to autistic people either. I'm using autism as an example of a mental disability, mental disability as a subset of disability, and disability as a subset of people who are discriminated against. <br /> <br />(And yes, saying that people who are discriminated against are discriminated against.)</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />No problem, I can see how you could have misunderstood me to be talking about your viewpoint, rather than the previous poster's framing of the issue as one specific to autism. <br /> <br />Referring to the poster rather than responding to the poster, might have been a better choice of words on my part, to make it clear I was not directly responding to you as the author of the post, that I quoted where I made that statement. <img src="modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif" alt="Smile" border="0" /></td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Yeah, that makes sense. At first when you said that I was quite confused because I thought it was directed towards me, and it was things I'd definitely not say.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>aghogday</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:06 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Tuttle wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">All I am saying in my response is that I'm not limiting it to autistic people either. I'm using autism as an example of a mental disability, mental disability as a subset of disability, and disability as a subset of people who are discriminated against. <br /> <br />(And yes, saying that people who are discriminated against are discriminated against.)</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />No problem, I can see how you could have misunderstood me to be talking about your viewpoint, rather than the previous poster's framing of the issue as one specific to autism. <br /> <br />Referring to the poster rather than responding to the poster, might have been a better choice of words on my part, to make it clear I was not directly responding to you as the author of the post, that I quoted where I made that statement. <img src="modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif" alt="Smile" border="0" /></span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Tuttle</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:47 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">All I am saying in my response is that I'm not limiting it to autistic people either. I'm using autism as an example of a mental disability, mental disability as a subset of disability, and disability as a subset of people who are discriminated against. <br /> <br />(And yes, saying that people who are discriminated against are discriminated against.)</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>aghogday</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:33 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Tuttle wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>aghogday wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"> <br /> <br />For the individual I was responding to in that post it was an autistic specific issue. It is a fact that sympathy is shown in other cases of murder-suicides/filicides where autism is not a factor as well as disability. I've already provided evidence of this through examples of combat veterans. <br /></td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />It was not an autistic specific issue for me. Can you please not be making statements about my views on subjects instead of your own? <br /> <br />People with mental disabilities as a whole are treated differently than those who are neurotypical (note I did say neurotypical and not "allistic" for a reason). This does have an affect on how people react to the murder of these people.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />In my discussion with you in that post I was responding to the use of the term allistic made by the previous poster. You did not use the term allistic, nor did anyone else frame the issue within the parameters of the term neurotypical; you were suggesting others were using the term neurotypical, but no one was using that parameter to frame the issue, as I clarified. <br /> <br /> <br />That individual's statement was specific to the issue of autistic vs. non-autistic individuals that are murdered, with the use of the term autistic vs allistic. <br /> <br />As far as I can see, you made no personal opinion in your last post. You are now providing your opinion that "People with mental disabilities as a whole are treated differently than those who are neurotypical (note I did say neurotypical and not "allistic" for a reason). This does have an affect on how people react to the murder of these people" <br /> <br />Neurotypical has no clear definition. There are some people that believe that what they call "neurotypicals" can have disabilities and there are some that believe that what they call "neurotypicals" do not have disabilities. From what you are saying here, it appears your definition of neurotypical does not include those individuals with mental disabilities". <br /> <br />There is no doubt that people without mental disabilities are treated differently than those that don't have them, and this can effect the amount of sympathy provided to a victim of violence, depending on personal opinion, human subconscious bias, and human discrimination/prejudice that at times can be intentionally hateful. <br /> <br />In the articles on these individuals with autism that have been killed by their parents, sympathy is being expressed for the circumstances related to the incident, however, only the person making those statements of sympathy, can provide information on the actual sympathy they have for the victims, whether or not they express it in a comment or not. Just because they don't express it in words, does not mean they have not shed tears for the victim. <br /> <br />The fact of the matter is that all people perceived with differences can be treated differently whether they are a woman or a man, LGBT, straight, strong, athletic, weak, fat, skinny, poor, homeless, rich, combat veterans, heroes, fallen heroes, pretty, ugly, white, black, mexican, immigrants, wear nice clothes, wear tattered clothes, religious, non religious, inherently smell good, inherently smell bad, people from subsaharan african nations vs. those in Northern Africa, etc. etc. etc. <br /> <br />There is almost no limit to that list. And in many cases when these individuals are victims of a horrifying act of violence they are provided little to no sympathy, depending on who is providing the opinion, or what the cultural norm is. <br /> <br />In short, this is not an issue specific to any of the thousands of differences perceived in human beings, as it relates to the potential sympathy, compassion, or complete disregard for their humanity, in every arena of life and death. <br /> <br />Allistic is an either or term, so the issue as framed by that individual was specific to those individuals with autism spectrum disorders that are killed. <br /> <br />Vernandi has not restricted the issue to disability in her written words here to either autistic, allistic, or neurotypical. She has framed the issue in the parameters of the phrase people with disabilities vs people without disabilities. She has not restricted her use of the term of disabilities to mental disabilities. <br /> <br />The parameters of the OPs statement (not necessarily restricted to the OPs beliefs) is one specific to the Light it up blue Iniative and Autistic Murders. <br /> <br />This is the statement I was originally responding to, that I felt was an unwarranted statement. The parameters of the issue have moved beyond autism, after the orginal OP's statement was presented. <br /> <br />My point is that the expressions of sympathy given to the circumstances of those that are involved in and victims in murder/suicides and filicides, are not issues specific to whether or not the individual had a disability, was allistic, or or autistic, within the expanded parameters of this discussion. <br /> <br />The victims of a combat veteran that is part of an act of horrifying violence such as this, whom receives sympathy for the circumstances, is evidence of it, as I have provided. <br /> <br />This is part of the evidence that I have presented to refute any association of a proven valuable and effective measure for autism awareness that has helped autistic individuals (light it up blue) in the same sentence with Autistic Murders.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Tuttle</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:59 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>aghogday wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"> <br /> <br />For the individual I was responding to in that post it was an autistic specific issue. It is a fact that sympathy is shown in other cases of murder-suicides/filicides where autism is not a factor as well as disability. I've already provided evidence of this through examples of combat veterans. <br /></td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />It was not an autistic specific issue for me. Can you please not be making statements about my views on subjects instead of your own? <br /> <br />People with mental disabilities as a whole are treated differently than those who are neurotypical (note I did say neurotypical and not "allistic" for a reason). This does have an affect on how people react to the murder of these people.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>aghogday</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:14 am<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Verdandi wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>aghogday wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"> <br />The conversation is often directed away from sympathy for the actual victim or victims of the circumstances regardless of whether or not the victim is an autistic child with severe disabilities, an "allistic" child with severe disabilities, or a child with no disabilities. I have provided evidence in this thread that this is not an autistic specific issue.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />It's not an autistic specific issue. It's an issue specific to the murder of <span style="font-style: italic">disabled</span> people by their carers. Often children, sometimes adults, and sometimes elderly. <br /> <br />And I still have no sympathy or compassion for parents who deliberately murder their own children. The "mental illness" excuse is nonsense because mentally ill people are statistically no more likely to be violent than people who aren't mentally ill and are often <span style="font-style: italic">less</span> likely. I am rapidly losing sympathy and compassion for people who actively try to solicit compassion for murderers, or defend them. Or make excuses for them.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />For the individual I was responding to in that post it was an autistic specific issue. It is a fact that sympathy is shown in other cases of murder-suicides/filicides where autism is not a factor as well as disability. I've already provided evidence of this through examples of combat veterans. <br /> <br />Whether or not someone shows sympathy for the circumstances surrounding the tragedies, is entirely an individual opinion, that none of us have any control over. I'm not suggesting that anyone should be required to show sympathy for killers of people with disabilities, people without disabilities, or the victim and killers families or circumstances. I am reporting the facts as they exist. <br /> <br />My personal feeling is that these are horrifying tragedies; I can't think of many things worse than this. I certainly feel sympathy for the remaining family members and the victim, because I know what it is like to lose a disabled child to sickness; I can't imagine what it is like to lose a disabled child at the hands of a spouse. I can't think of a more horrifying nightmare. <br /> <br /><span style="font-weight: bold">If you are think I am personally defending any of these killer's actions or providing excuses, justification, or a defense for the killings, you are mistaken.</span> <br /> <br />Mental illness is not an excuse for killing someone, it is a factor evidenced in the majority of these cases of filicide/suicide-homicide. And, there is a statistically measured subset of schizophrenic individuals that are 10 times more likely to commit acts of violence as the general population, as evidenced in the research I provided. <br /> <br />The Mental Health organizations providing this evidence, suggest that intervention has the potential to prevent the occurrences of the horrifying acts of violence. <br /> <br />Insanity is a legal defense, used by some, dependent on the judgement of psychiatric professionals. That is not a defense that the killings are justified. <br /> <br />I have already clearly stated that in my opinion the only person responsible for the acts of violence are those that commit them, and that they will suffer the consequences of their actions as determined by the courts, whether it is prison or a mental institution. <br /> <br />My personal opinion is in agreement with the evidence provided by mental health professionals that a pro-active effort to prevent the future occurrences of this type of incident through awareness, education, and intervention is a positive iniative. Whether or not it prevents an incident like this, is almost impossible to measure, because the incidences are so rare. <br /> <br />And as I have stated time and time again, my issue of disagreement is not with people that want to express their sympathy for the victim above and beyond the circumstances of the tragedy, or the family members that survive the tragedy. <br /> <br />It is with the topic that puts a proven effective and valuable advocacy effort for autism in the same sentence with autistic murders that I disagree with, and have disputed with objective third party evidence from reputable sources. <br /> <br />As per Nostromo's post, relating the incident from the late 90's in New Zealand, this kind of thing was going on long before anyone thought of a blue light iniative or an organization called Autism Speaks was developed for concerned parents of autistic children, in the US. <br /> <br />And, I know for a fact that there are parents that would do anything for their autistic children, because I had a mother that raised two autistic children as a single parent. <br /> <br />My father could only do it for a couple of years; it was only until many years later, that I realized part of the reason I never held it against him, was because we had something in common. <br /> <br />That something in common, restricted my ability to gain a fuller appreciation of my mother's efforts, until I had a child of my own. <br /> <br />My wife and my sister are saints as well; the mother and the sister were responsible, in part, for the fact that I lived until age 21. The wife, in part, until this point in my life. <br /> <br />My caretakers never gave up; I can personally appreciate the fact that for the most part caretakers don't give up on autistic/disabled children or adults. It is the only reason I am still alive. <br /> <br />I never considered myself impaired for the first 47 years. Those that loved me the most, had me convinced that I wasn't. <br /> <br />Those that love autistic individuals can make all the difference in an autistic person's life. Very likely that there are some like my mother, and some like my father. Some that have every inherent ability to express their feelings and love and some whom have little inherent ability to express their feelings and love. As I judge those that don't, I judge myself. <br /> <br />I consider myself in no position to personally judge parents successfully parenting their autistic children, whom show sympathy for the circumstances surrounding these tragedies. The fact that they can express sympathy, is some indication that they have the ability to express their feelings and love for their autistic children. <br /> <br />However, that does not mean I personally agree with all the statements, that I have read in the comment sections of the articles.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Verdandi</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:39 am<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>aghogday wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"> <br />The conversation is often directed away from sympathy for the actual victim or victims of the circumstances regardless of whether or not the victim is an autistic child with severe disabilities, an "allistic" child with severe disabilities, or a child with no disabilities. I have provided evidence in this thread that this is not an autistic specific issue.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />It's not an autistic specific issue. It's an issue specific to the murder of <span style="font-style: italic">disabled</span> people by their carers. Often children, sometimes adults, and sometimes elderly. <br /> <br />And I still have no sympathy or compassion for parents who deliberately murder their own children. The "mental illness" excuse is nonsense because mentally ill people are statistically no more likely to be violent than people who aren't mentally ill and are often <span style="font-style: italic">less</span> likely. I am rapidly losing sympathy and compassion for people who actively try to solicit compassion for murderers, or defend them. Or make excuses for them.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>nostromo</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:02 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">Gah, I looked into a famous case here from some years back. <br />The background <br /><a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2000/aug/23/guardiansocietysupplement7" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2000/aug/23/guardiansocietysupplement7</a> <br />And the mothers words <br /><a href="http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=3197236" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=3197236</a> <br /> <br />I can't believe the sentence was changed from murder to manslaughter and she only served 15 months, its disgusting and makes me angry. <br /> <br />I notice aghogday mentioned that in most of these cases the parents are mentally ill. The mother in this case, after she was released took up drinking and some years later burned a church (they were doing ungodly things she said) and was re-imprisoned. But she knew fully what she was doing though in both cases, she decided her actions were a solution. <br /> <br />Stress and factors like that are mitigators not an excuse. In my mind it should have a small bearing on the sentence only. If I were King that is.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>vermontsavant</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:07 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">i think the real issue is the societal trend toward euthinasia,abortion and the believe that people with a sickness would more at peace dead.i am certainly not saying killing an autistic child is the same as taking someone off life suport.in the case of assisted suicide the sick patient wants to die.however i can see having some compasion for these parents</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>aghogday</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:08 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Tuttle wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">I also don't think anyone has said that raising an autistic child isn't stressful. (I mean, raising /any/ child is stressful.) <br /> <br />What people have said is that treating the murder of an autistic child differently than the murder of a neurotypical child is unacceptable.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Actually until you just used the term, no one has mentioned the NT term in context of the actual topic of this thread yet. I was responding to the statement that was made that the perceived stress of an raising an autistic person is highly exagerrated. <br /> <br />My point is that the only person that can fully determine the severity of that stress is the actual person undergoing the stress. There is always the potential that the stress could be exagerrated at either a lower level or a higher level, by third party sources. <br /> <br />The term "allistic" was used in the recent post that addresses this issue. There is no empirical evidence that murdered autistic children with severe disabilities are given any less respect than murdered allistic children with severe disabilities. <br /> <br />It is no secret, that in general, there are some in society that do not place the same value on people with disabilities, as they do with people without disabilities. Our laws provide accommodations in an attempt to mitigate this reality. <br /> <br />The focus of conversation in the comments section of an internet article over a murder/suicide or filicide of an autistic child with severe disabilities, is commonly focused on speculation of the circumstances that led to the horrifying act of violence and away from the victim. <br /> <br />It is common to most every case like this; whether it is extreme focus of anger because the muslim religion has been speculated as a factor leading up to the act of violence, or it is stress/mental illness/lack of government services, and support from others; or PTSD and lack of support for combat veterans, as well many other scenarios reported in internet media articles. <br /> <br />The conversation is often directed away from sympathy for the actual victim or victims of the circumstances regardless of whether or not the victim is an autistic child with severe disabilities, an "allistic" child with severe disabilities, or a child with no disabilities. I have provided evidence in this thread that this is not an autistic specific issue <br /> <br />None of have us have any real idea what the severity of the stress or the severity of the potential mental illness of parents that actually kill their children are except for the parents responsible for the action of violence. <br /> <br />However, research from highly respected mental health organizations, suggest that the majority of these individuals, that commit these extremely rare incidences of filicide-homicides/murder suffer from mental illness. <br /> <br />In terms of the media, statements from extreme sources, like the daily mail, that suggest that there is a population of autistic parents, on the brink of snapping, is indeed a general statement of exageration of stress among autistic parents, but there is no empirical evidence that statements like that, from resources that are commonly understood to be of questionable reputability, play any role in the average 2 or 3 rare cases of the killing of autistic children by parents, reported in the media in any given year. <br /> <br />And, there has been no empirical evidence presented in this thread, that the light it up blue awareness initiative for advocacy of autism, deserves a place in the same sentence with autistic murders; per the OP topic.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Marcia</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:44 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">Tragedies of this nature take place in countries where the light it up blue campaign and Autism Speaks aren't present or have minimal publicity so I don't think there is any relationship between these killings and those campaigns. <br /> <br />Here's a controversial thought for you. <br /> <br />Has anyone considered that the parents who do kill their autistic children, and kill or attempt to kill themselves, are themselves autistic, but undiagnosed because of their age? <br /> <br />Most people here with a diagnosis can see autistic traits in older family members, and many parents whose children are diagnosed then come to a realisation that they themselves may be autistic. So, it seems fair to assume that there is a strong possibility that at least some of these parents are themselves on the Spectrum. <br /> <br />The overwhelming majority of parents of autistic children, even when their lives are at the most stressful, do not resort to these lethal extremes. But those parents are able to find support and help from a variety of sources, including friends and family, support groups, health professionals, social services and so on. <br /> <br />A parent who is on the Spectrum is less likely to be have a strong support network as they have difficulty making and sustaining those relationships, and so they will be become increasingly isolated with possibly no help, or opportunities for venting, practical assistance or support. They may find it difficult to reach out to social services, to make phone calls, complete the masses of paperwork often required for support to be provided, or to communicate how much they are struggling. <br /> <br />What's more, sensory issues would make it even more stressful to be cooped up with someone who may scream, bang or throw objects, have no sense of personal space, eating difficulties, toileting problems and so on. And no respite, no help. <br /> <br />Isolation, sensory stress, communication difficulties, inability to access or accept help and support - all these things seem to be common to many of these murders or murder/suicides. <br /> <br />Sometimes people can't cope, it gets too much and they snap. The consequences are horrific for child and for parent. To be able to empathise to some degree with that struggle is not to say it's ok. Rather it is to say that this should not have happened and that we need to be able to identify the triggers to prevent such horror happening again.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Tuttle</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:15 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">I also don't think anyone has said that raising an autistic child isn't stressful. (I mean, raising /any/ child is stressful.) <br /> <br />What people have said is that treating the murder of an autistic child differently than the murder of a neurotypical child is unacceptable.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>aghogday</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:35 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>DogsWithoutHorses wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">Most parents/caregivers that murder children are probably in a very stressful situation. The issue is that the perceived stress of raising an autistic child is grossly exaggerated. There is no real difference between the death of an autistic child and the death of an allistic child but they're treated differently by media and by courts. Acting as though our justice system is infallible or even not horrendously skewed against minorities is ridiculous. Denying media's/public opinion's influence on the justice system is also pretty silly. <br />And I know big words are fun, but they're even more fun when they're used correctly. <br /> <br />aghogday I'll have to reply to later because that's yet another huge block of text to pick through for any pertinent content and I'd like to give them the courtesy of taking it down point by irrelevant point.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />No one in this thread has suggested that the justice system is infallible or that the media or public opinion does not influence the justice system. <br /> <br />However, there is no empirical evidence that this is an issue specific to the 2 or 3 reported incidences of parents killing autistic children per year. <br /> <br />The stress of raising any child is highly dependent upon the coping strategies that individuals use, per actual research. <br /> <br />Can you provide one example of where someone's stress has been exaggerated in taking care of an autistic child. How would you as an individual, be able to define or understand their stress?</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>aghogday</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:14 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Marcia wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">When using recently invented words, such as "allistic", which are known to and used by a small group of people, it would be helpful if they could be defined. Etymology and the thinking behind its use would be interesting too.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />It's a brand name for an online company used as a catchy phrase to sell clothing items. <br /> <br /></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Quote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">Allistic – “All is, that I see.” <br /> <br />We live by the statement above, and this brand is meant to introduce it to you as well. The statement in itself was made to show that all of the opportunities and situations around us are only a reflection of how we choose to understand and act upon our own mentalities. Often forced to be defined by a stereotype or bias of which we are not – where does triumph reside in the world? <br /> <br />Simple… It resides in our development of self. Reach to the limits we know you can break, recognize the way you are invaluable, and last, tell us what you see. <br /> <br />Allistic burst from the womb of possibilities, and we are growing it to refine and modernize the collective urban culture. It will begin pure and innocent, but we ask you to join us in its progression from societal influence to influencing society. <br />_____________________________________________________________________________________ <br /> <br />Find humility by finding beauty in the slums.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /><a href="http://www.allistic.com/faq" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" class="postlink" >http://www.allistic.com/faq</a> <br /> <br />For those that have decided to use the term as a synonym for non-autistic, it is going to be good free advertisement for the clothing company, for those trying to figure out what it means with a google search. <br /> <br /><a href="http://allismspeaks.tumblr.com/terminology" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" class="postlink" >http://allismspeaks.tumblr.com/terminology</a> <br /> <br /></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Quote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">Terminology <br /> <br />General terms: <br /> <br />Autistic: being on what is known as the Autism Spectrum. <br /> <br />Allistic: being not on the Autism Spectrum (or perhaps , someone who is on the allistic spectrum). This is usually considered “the norm” in our world. <br /> <br />Neuroatypical: someone who has some mental, psychological, or neurological conditions considered different to the typical brain (such as depression, OCD, AD(H)D, schizophrenia, autism, and others). <br /> <br />Neurotypical: The opposite of neuroatypical; someone who’s brain-workings are considered “typical.” <br /> <br />OOC: “out-of-character” meaning a post that is not written within the Allism Speaks universe but in our actual world.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />It appears that someone, in the autistic community has come up with a word that is more confusing than neurotypical. <img src="modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif" alt="Smile" border="0" /> <br /> <br />Interestingly, the clothing company describes the word somewhere in the ball park of the all inclusive definition of neurodiversity. They choose not to use an us vs. them ideology <img src="modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif" alt="Smile" border="0" /> .</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> </table>
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