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ruveyn
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30 Oct 2011, 7:49 pm

langers wrote:
I'm not going to put down the kid.


Even so, the "kid" show know that the atomic hypothesis is supported by massive amounts of evidence of all sorts. What could possibly account for all those observations and measurements other than small thingies made from various baryonic and charged lepton matter?

Virtually every observation in the small and the large is screaming out: "I am made of atoms" except for the stuff that isn't which may be 80 percent of all the material in the cosmos that gravitates. Perhaps "dark matter" is not made of thing that even resemble baryons but what we can see (i.e. radiate electromagnetic energy) is almost certainly made of atoms.

ruveyn



Samarda
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31 Oct 2011, 8:15 am

If this doesn't sound absurd , that's a bad thing since this took alot more imagination then knowledge. I'm thinking thoughts that aren't grounded in wisdom that is a repetitive cycle of stereotypical knowledge about phenomenon passed on to younger "kids". I do admit you people are wise at avoiding this problem.

I'm glad it's flying in the face of decades of research that's a healthy process , my perseverance will finish it as I'm working on something I love. Everything in science is a set of assumptions. It is true that no one knows for sure, and we just accept that for now to be the proof that something is what it is and something is how it is.

I do have a healthy self-concept , I socialize once and while with only a few of my peers on topics that are far beyond are reach for amusement. I think were off to a pretty good start considering our ages and marks (86+) in Formal and Natural Sciences. I usually talk to me teacher about questions about the universe. But in my view , they are just speaking about what they learn in school and never even heard of K/M theory.

Thanks for the concern , I will focus on school more but it's better if interest is intrinsic and overriding.

----

The main potential of this hypothesis is to try to uncover the form in the formless , to explain random unpredictable behavior in predictability , and to never assert that it is final. This hypothesis will only be a development , I'm still incubating this baby.

I'm working on conceptual independent-backgrounds for non-linear dynamics , what I'm doing is trying to explain my hypothesis in terms of continuum mechanics without convection - that is without the assumption of atoms/molecules.

I'm already finished learning intermediate calculus but even calculus nor continuum is sufficient in describing this anomaly. So I'll have to create new mathematics from this conceptual picture in the future , when I'm a graduate.

It is not similar to the Navier-Stoke Equations since it tries to discover why certain turbulent positions in gas/fluid amorphations in 3-dimensions are in a certain way and why the function behind smooth manifolds is such , thus it is trying to discover the form in the formless.

It is a contender for the Navier-Stokes Existance and Smoothness problems as it hints turbulence, through many failures in this invention that are studied will lead to discoveries.

I'm also looking for the behaviour of subatomic particles and their chemical and physical properties in forming new compounds in bonding , I've turned to interdisciplinarity - Biophysical Chemistry.

---

What were you doing at 17? I've already reached Stage 3.

Perseverance is the ultimate ingredient. Your ideas can gain the momentum required to become established as the works , only if you are strong willed in the face of opposition and misfortune.



Last edited by Samarda on 31 Oct 2011, 11:20 am, edited 4 times in total.

ruveyn
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31 Oct 2011, 8:37 am

Samarda wrote:
If this doesn't sound absurd , that's a bad thing since this took alot more imagination then knowledge. I'm thinking thoughts that aren't grounded in wisdom that is a repetitive cycle of stereotypical knowledge about phenomenon passed on to younger "kids". I do admit you people are wise at avoiding this problem.

I'm glad it's flying in the face of decades of research that's a healthy process , my perseverance will finish it as I'm working on something I love.

I do have a healthy self-concept , I socialize once and while with only a few of my peers on topics that are far beyond are reach for amusement. I think were off to a pretty good start considering our ages and marks (86+) in Formal and Natural Sciences. I usually talk to me teacher about questions about the universe. But in my view , they are just speaking about what they learn in school and never even heard of K/M theory.

Thanks for the concern , I will focus on school more but it's better if interest is intrinsic and overriding.

----

I'm working on conceptual independent-backgrounds for non-linear dynamics , what I'm doing is trying to explain my hypothesis in terms of continuum mechanics without convection - that is without the assumption of atoms/molecules.

I'm already finished learning intermediate calculus but even calculus nor continuum is sufficient in describing this anomaly.

It is not similar to the Navier-Stoke Equations since it tries to discover why certain turbulent positions in gas/fluid amorphations in 3-dimensions are in a certain way and why the function behind smooth manifolds is such , thus it is trying to discover the form in the formless.

It is a contender for the Navier-Stokes Existance and Smoothness problems as it hints turbulence, through many failures in this invention that are studied will lead to discoveries.

I also don't believe atoms exist premisely but this is just an intellectually - oppositionally defiant statement with no commensurable evidence what so ever ( there could be something deeper , it just has to be discovered through holes in theory. What do you think?)

I'm also looking for the behaviour of subatomic particles and their chemical and physical properties in forming new compounds in bonding , I've turned to interdisciplinarity - Biophysical Chemistry.

---

What were you doing at 17? I've already reached Stage 3.

Perseverance is the ultimate ingredient. Your ideas can gain the momentum required to become established as the works , only if you are strong willed in the face of opposition and misfortune.


You have made a promise and a proposal. Now produce results and exhibit them.

ruveyn



Samarda
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31 Oct 2011, 9:07 am

I will. I made a promise..

Now back on topic.. Update: From Lee Smolin

Dear Samarda,

I cannot do justice to this in a short email, but there is lots of litererature and Im sure lots on line. Look up the measurement problem or hidden variables theories. Look up why several of the founders of quantum mechanics including Einstein and Schroedinger never accepted it as a good theory.

best wishes,

Lee

On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 12:35 PM, Jason Samardar <[email protected]> wrote:
Could you explain briefly what your troubles are with Quantum Theory and it's Foundations , You listed it as the 5 great problems of Physics.

What exactly are the foundational problems?



Last edited by Samarda on 31 Oct 2011, 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Samarda
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31 Oct 2011, 10:49 am

Introduction

The ‘new’ quantum theory of Heisenberg and Schrödinger was immediately seen
to be extremely successful in practice. It could be used to predict energy levels for
a considerable number of systems, and Schrödinger’s approach in particular was
capable of describing many features of the atom, and predicting the results of a
great variety of experiments. Yet it was also clear that there were many surprising
and puzzling aspects to the theory, aspects that were certain to cause controversy.
In particular, the theory appeared to violate two Newtonian virtues, those of
determinism and realism. The first tells us that, if the state of a system is known at
time t, we should be able to predict its behaviour with certainty at all later times.
The aspect of the second that is stressed here is that a system should have definite
values of such observables as position and momentum at all times, even if these
are not measured. We may mention that the theory also appears to violate a third
Newtonian virtue, that of locality, which says that an event at one point in space
cannot have an immediate effect at a distant point. However, while the problems
with determinism and realism were immediately obvious and there was much
discussion of them in the early days of quantum theory, that with locality received
practically no attention until it was mentioned by Einstein and his collaborators
in the famous EPR paper of 1935.

Incidentally in this chapter we shall often remark along the lines that the theory
‘appeared to’ have certain difficulties. What is meant by this apparently rather
vague form of words is that the theory has these difficulties if the formalism
is interpreted in a fairly straightforward and natural way, without adding extra
elements beyond its explicit content. In particular no so-called hidden variables
are added, which might give extra information about an individual system, over and
above that contained in the wave-function.That there should be no hidden variables
was an essential part of the so-called orthodox interpretation (or interpretations)
of quantum theory, as will be discussed in Chapter 4. Einstein’s terminology, to
be discussed in Chapter 6 in particular, would be to say that the theory has these
difficulties if it is assumed that, without the addition of hidden variables, it is
complete, an assumption Einstein did not accept. Much of the rest of the book

3. Quantum Mechanics and its Fundamental Issues
will be concerned with attempts, particularly many using hidden variables, to go
beyond this basic approach, and hence to remove the difficulties, or, as Einstein
would say, to complete the theory.
The loss of realism was one aspect of the fact that, unlike clasical theory, quantum
theory provided no clear picture of the system. Even from the days of the old
quantum theory, wave-particle duality, as exemplified in Einstein’s light-particle
and de Broglie’s wave nature of the electron, had shown that simple classical
pictures had, at best, a restricted value. It could, of course, be argued that this
was not a genuine problem. One might suggest that, while the loss of a classical
picture, and even the loss of determinism and realism, might well be disturbing
for many and even anathema for some, it was not necessarily a conceptual failing
of quantum theory; some, in particular Heisenberg and Pauli, could claim it as a
liberating advance.

However there were aspects of this loss of realism that did present genuine
conceptual difficulties. Before measurement, a straightforward application of the
formalism suggests that the measured quantity will not usually have a specific
value, but when the measurement is performed a definite result is obtained; yet the
standard quantum evolution provides no mechanism whereby this may happen.
This difficulty may be termed the measurement problem of quantum theory; the
wave-function appears to change from a so-called pure state to a mixed state, but
quantum theory does not allow this to happen. Also, while quantum theory, as
has been said, suggests that microscopic systems do not demonstrate realism,
we usually take it for granted that objects of normal size, so-called macroscopic
objects, do behave in a realistic fashion. It must clearly be a challenge to explain
how classical realism occurs, or at least apppears to occur, at the macroscopic level
when it does not exist at the microscopic level.



Last edited by Samarda on 31 Oct 2011, 11:01 am, edited 2 times in total.

Samarda
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31 Oct 2011, 11:19 am

I found another book on this issue - it includes fundamental problems in Quantum Mechanics.

http://www.springer.com/physics/quantum ... 87-71519-3

Quantum Mechanics and Its Fundamental Issues
Introduction
Some Preliminaries
The Uncertainty Principle
‘Time-Energy Uncertainty Principle’
Pure and Mixed States
Statistical Properties of Pure States
Statistical Properties of Mixed States
Observable Distinction Between a Pure and a Mixed State
Classical Realism or Macrorealism
Quantum Realism
The Quantum Measurement Problem
The Classical Limit Problem of Quantum Mechanics
The Limit Problem:Wave and Ray Optics
The Limit Problem: Special Relativity and
Newtonian Mechanics
The Classical Limit Problem in Standard
Quantum Mechanics
Wave-Particle Dualism



mar00
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31 Oct 2011, 12:06 pm

Copy pasting all this garbage from wiki or wherever surely is a talent requiring a great deal of imagination :D
But I can't even bother replying since I know my words can't get through to you. Anyway good luck and don't lose your enthusiasm in the process. It might come in handy if you don't get blinded by all this ignorance of yours. At 17 I was as allergic to BS as I am now. Stage 3? Say something when you know Lang by heart.



Samarda
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31 Oct 2011, 1:47 pm

Copy pasting all this garbage from wiki or wherever surely is a talent requiring a great deal of imagination
But I can't even bother replying since I know my words can't get through to you. Anyway good luck and don't lose your enthusiasm in the process. It might come in handy if you don't get blinded by all this ignorance of yours. At 17 I was as allergic to BS as I am now. Stage 3? Say something when you know Lang by heart.

Your a kid aren't you , most people on this site are under 21 , kids usually troll. If your around my age , your pretty immature and rude , so you bring your problems online.

Why is there something with your self-esteem , is it because I'm doing more than you at your age , are you a leftist , do you feel shame and guilt when you see success? What are your interests , do you have a future ahead of you or are you just going to wait for people's posts that may lift your day up?

Your right , I can't give my own thoughts and the purpose of this thread was to inform people on the issues of QM and I can't get any further but hey at least I have a future ahead of me , and I'm doing well - you can be allergic all you want , allergic to me , so don't come back and let the thread die out since I'm as ignorant as anyone here on this website about QM.



hyperlexian
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31 Oct 2011, 2:35 pm

mar00, do not refer to members as having "ignorance" as it can be considered a personal insult.

Samarda, a counterattack was completely unwarranted, and you post also contained personal insults. next time please tell a moderator if you feel attacked before attacking back. thank you.

thread locked at OP's request.


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