How do you decide what salary to ask for?

Page 1 of 1 [ 9 posts ] 

diablo77
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 219
Location: Atlanta, GA

24 Dec 2014, 11:55 pm

When you're submitting a resume or application to an employer that asks you for your desired salary, what in the world are you supposed to say? It always feels like a trap to me. You can't just ask for how much you really want, clearly, because all of us probably DESIRE more money than most jobs pay! It feels like a trap because I feel like if I ask for too much, they won't even consider me because they think I won't work for the figure they had in mind. But if I ask for too little, and they would have been willing to pay me more, I feel like I'll cheat myself out of better pay because they'll just give me the lower amount. How do you come up with a figure to ask for? Why won't they just tell you how much they pay?



Harvey
Hummingbird
Hummingbird

User avatar

Joined: 30 Nov 2014
Age: 62
Gender: Male
Posts: 20

25 Dec 2014, 3:03 am

Research the average for your profession and cost of living where your located, then go a bit higher... go with that number... they will bargain you lower... you do not want to start with the number you would be ok with as a minimum...

for example, if you are applying for an accountant job, entry level...
and the hourly rate on average is $16.00, and cost of living is average or moderate... Go $17.00 - $17.50
if they are still interested, they will go with your offer or counter offer for example, something like $14.00 - $15.00
don't jump on their offer too fast, but go with something else a bit lower... like $16.00...

if you would accept $15.00, don't start at $15.00.. rather go down from $17.00 to $15.00, than from $15.00 to $13.00...


_________________
Be your friend's
true friend.
Return gift for gift.
Repay laughter
with laughter again
but betrayal with treachery.

- The Havamal


MissDorkness
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Aug 2011
Age: 47
Gender: Female
Posts: 903
Location: Missouri

26 Dec 2014, 10:42 am

diablo77 wrote:
When you're submitting a resume or application to an employer that asks you for your desired salary, what in the world are you supposed to say? It always feels like a trap to me. You can't just ask for how much you really want, clearly, because all of us probably DESIRE more money than most jobs pay! It feels like a trap because I feel like if I ask for too much, they won't even consider me because they think I won't work for the figure they had in mind. But if I ask for too little, and they would have been willing to pay me more, I feel like I'll cheat myself out of better pay because they'll just give me the lower amount. How do you come up with a figure to ask for? Why won't they just tell you how much they pay?

Oh, I know, it's so frustrating.
I have always looked for more niche roles and it's hard to just go to www.indeed.com/salary and find numbers that are accurate.
I applied for so many jobs in the 7 years I was job-hunting, and the ones who would call me back were all excited and wanting to hire me... until we talked turkey. ~aggravated sigh~ Waste of time, on both our parts, that would've been prevented if they'd just put a pay range somewhere. I would tell them they really needed to adjust their job descriptions because they're not going to get a decent "data analyst or something dealing with databases, programming, analysis, etc" for that pay, you're not even going to get a kid fresh out of college at that rate, because they won't be able to pay their student loans on that salary
(a couple of times, they were even potential transfers within my own company, I couldn't believe how out of touch some of the managers were with their expectations).

I actually did pay negotiations back in college when I worked restaurant and retail, after my first job, I always made at least $1.50 over minimum wage. My friends and family couldn't believe I had the chutzpah as a teenager, but, let's face it, people in those industries aren't generally great at following rules or being reliable... which is my one strength.

I didn't negotiate my first office job, just took what they offered me as they knew I had no experience (that lasted 13 1/2 years :lol: ), but, I DID my current job. It was a bit easier for me to find information, since my job, although still quite niche, is a bit more common (c a f m system administrator) than most of those I've applied for in the past. I was able to find salary data from multiple sources, and, accounting for cost of living differences, I made a reasonable request.

They came back MUCH lower, in fact, not much more than what I was already making at a 'lesser' job. But, when I asked them for time to think it over due to the fact that we were so far apart on that, they conceded a bit more, and came back with a more sr job title (which means more room to grow in the future at a higher pay grade) and a signing bonus. So, I took it.

Anyway, point being, do as much research as possible (industry salary surveys, salary.com, indeed.com/salary, nace calculator, etc) to come up with a good idea. Then, factor in col (cities are more expensive than suburbs and vastly different from rural areas) and education and experience. You do enough research, you'll get a good feel for what most companies are offering.

Yes, you don't want to undersell yourself, if they value the position higher, you want to know what you're asking is fair. Hopefully you won't be disappointed and you can have only a small amount of back-and-forth before you can come to an equitable agreement.



FMX
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Mar 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,319

27 Dec 2014, 3:55 pm

Don't take the word "desired" too literally. ;) It really means your "expected" salary - how much you think you can actually get and would be prepared to accept. So that comes down to your market value, which is where you need to do your research. Websites like glassdoor.com, indeed.com, salary.com etc. are good for this, so are ads for similar jobs that do mention a salary.

Of course, if you already have a job then your expected salary would be higher than your current one. Even if your current job is terrible and you can't wait to get out of there and would happily take a pay cut to do so, your prospective employer probably won't know this unless you tell them - so don't tell them. :)


_________________
CloudFlare eating your posts? Try the Lazarus browser extension. See https://wp-fmx.github.io/WP/


vickygleitz
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 29 Jul 2013
Age: 68
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,757
Location: pueblo colorado

29 Dec 2014, 4:26 pm

I always applied for minimum wage jobs and never even thought of asking for more. [ I was often fired. Not for being late or insubordinate or anything like that. It was ussually "Vicky, you are so sweet, but you just dont get it"]

Mostly, I have worked for myself. More money for the time and effort. Interesting. An incredible boss. And hey, I "got it"

I read so much about 'side hustles" in the last few years. Except for my years as a licensed day-care provider, I worked several "side hustles" at once, [though there was not a name for what I did at the time], sometimes with another partner [different strengths and weaknesses]

At AutHaven, in March, we will discussing side hustles in depth at a workshop.



MissDorkness
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Aug 2011
Age: 47
Gender: Female
Posts: 903
Location: Missouri

30 Dec 2014, 9:47 am

vickygleitz wrote:
I always applied for minimum wage jobs and never even thought of asking for more. [I was often fired. Not for being late or insubordinate or anything like that. It was usually "Vicky, you are so sweet, but you just don't get it"]

Mostly, I have worked for myself. More money for the time and effort. Interesting. An incredible boss. And hey, I "got it"

I read so much about 'side hustles" in the last few years. Except for my years as a licensed day-care provider, I worked several "side hustles" at once, [though there was not a name for what I did at the time], sometimes with another partner [different strengths and weaknesses]

At AutHaven, in March, we will be discussing side hustles in depth at a workshop.

I noticed that's pretty common, people working in jobs like that just accept they'll be paid the absolute minimum. There are so many things wrong with that strata of society, things that the more affluent will never understand... having to work in the worst weather and worst conditions, minimal vacation or sick leave and worrying about losing hours or jobs if you take time off for any reason. It's inhumane, I couldn't wait to get out.

I like the side hustles, too. I was stuck in a job for many years, while my family kept growing. Working from home in the evenings was fairly profitable, and I couldn't weird people out with my behavior if they mainly communicated with me via email. ;)

Glad it's worked out well for you. And, I definitely think that's a great topic for people like us.



diablo77
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 219
Location: Atlanta, GA

31 Dec 2014, 12:10 am

I have had a lot of those too, those low-wage jobs where they just tell you what you're getting and you have to take it or leave it. Really, that's been almost every job I've had. I have been trying so hard to move up to getting at least a living wage, but it is rough when I get this question because I'm not used to it. It sort of paralyzes me.



LillaA
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2014
Age: 33
Gender: Female
Posts: 83

04 Jan 2015, 11:24 am

General rule is always make the employer give a figure first. When I'm filling out an application that has a salary question, I try to put something like "Negotiable" as an answer. Then in an interview when they say "What pay are you expecting?" or "What salary do you require?" I use a similar answer and avoid it till they give a figure first. The first job interview that I had where this came up (prior jobs had been such that they simply tell you what they pay and you take it or leave it, no room for negotiation), the lady ended up naming a figure about 50% more than I'd expected for the job! So, I'm really glad that I hadn't said what I thought, or I would've lost out big time. Always work hard to find a way around the question. I had one job that I couldn't find reasonable salary data for, so my answer was something along the lines of "I've done some research but couldn't determine exactly what this position should pay; however, I'm sure you'll make me a fair offer". That puts some guilt-obligation on them to be reasonable, and then once they say something you can still negotiate.


_________________
Success is getting what you want; happiness is wanting what you get.


FMX
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Mar 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,319

04 Jan 2015, 2:48 pm

Ah, the old "whoever mentions a figure first loses the negotiation" advice. It comes from the book "What Color Is Your Parachute?" and has been passed around like gospel. I'm glad it worked out for you, LillaA, but I don't think it's a good "general rule". Most people who've pulled this off got lucky with an interviewer who was nice to them or, perhaps, just not much of a negotiator. It's a dangerous game, though, which even most NTs can't play well. You certainly should not be the one to bring up salary, but if they ask you "what is your expected salary?" IMHO your answer should be a number.

Why? You cannot make the employer tell you a number. (Remember, they are in the position of power in almost all job interviews.) So yes, you can certainly ask them what salary they're offering and if they tell you then consider yourself lucky, but they may well give you a non-answer response, too. If you then continue playing games around this there's a high risk that you won't get an offer at all!

Quote:
"I've done some research but couldn't determine exactly what this position should pay; however, I'm sure you'll make me a fair offer"


I think it's OK (not great, but OK) to say this when it's the truth, but not as a general trick to get around answering their question. Also, this statement puts you into a difficult position if they then offer an amount you don't like.


_________________
CloudFlare eating your posts? Try the Lazarus browser extension. See https://wp-fmx.github.io/WP/