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circular_reference
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19 Apr 2014, 3:29 pm

I was laid off two months ago with 3 days notice after the tech startup that I worked for and it's top heavy Middle Management Six Sigma types spent 1.8 million chasing Investment funding with VaporWare.

The upside is that I am no longer constantly frustrated attempting to get mgt. to make the right choices. Such as not spending $50K to attend a trade show when we didn't have a product to really show off. Or not spending 10K a month for executive suites when we don't have a product, customer base or revenue. Or, not hiring tech support staff when we don't have a product to support. Best of all...no more meeting after meeting where the 42 long's wait around for their time to bloviate, spewing their ephemeral pie in the sky ideas that are impractical and/or just plain foolish. Geez, you'd think these types would take the Pereto Principal seriously.

Worst part is that I was offered two jobs during the three years that I was there with much better pay and benefits. But, nope. I am hamstrung by an almost detrimental sense of loyalty and aversion to change so I didn't take the job after I was offered more pay at the Startup and promised control over development direction, which not surprisingly was never given.

Now, I'm in the job market again without a college degree and hundreds of applications and resume submissions later, I am still unemployment because I cannot somehow convince prospective employers that 15 years of solid, mission critical software development in as many languages, platforms and frameworks is quite enough to see past my lack of a degree.

I got off to a relatively late start to be honest and didn't discover programming/development until I was 29, which was almost happenstance. That was all it took however and I was like a duck in water. I even built a fairly successful software company, which lasted 10 years until 2009 when my partners stole intellectual property and proselytized the customer base behind by back. (Sued but couldn't afford to litigate to conclusion).

Anyway, it's a little difficult to explain to people how you learn much more effectively on your own or that listening to a teacher/professor ramble off a litany of verbal information doesn't do it for you or that because of your inherent skill for the work, you didn't need college as it turned out.

I have been very conscientious in my interviews to avoid things like rambling, over sharing or contradicting my interviewer on points, which for a couple instances, they were egregiously incorrect.

I know it's a numbers game when it comes down to it and the law of averages are on my side and I know that my propensity to persist on no matter what will get me over the hump in the long run, but for now, its just disheartening.

Just needed to vent somewhere where some of these points would be understood.


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tarantella64
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19 Apr 2014, 4:48 pm

Understood, but it seems to me you have two choices:

1) Lie, and put letters on your resume;
2) Go get the letters, even though the whole business will feel asinine and be crazy expensive.

The risk in (1) is that you'll interview with or be managed by someone who actually went to that place at that time. In a few years, RMP will give you enough info on the relevant profs to fake your way through a conversation, but it doesn't go back that far now. Of course, you could always say you were a nontraditional student and weren't much involved in the social life.

If you're making it to interview stage, though, that says the problem's not so much with the lack of degree.



LostInEmulation
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19 Apr 2014, 7:06 pm

The crazy expensive part of 2 could be avoided by studying where it is cheaper. Like Germany.


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circular_reference
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19 Apr 2014, 9:01 pm

tarantella64 wrote:
Understood, but it seems to me you have two choices:


If you're making it to interview stage, though, that says the problem's not so much with the lack of degree.


Hmm. Good point. Perhaps I should continue to shore up my interview skills. ;-)


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"Crime and punishment grow out of one stem. Punishment is a fruit that unsuspected ripens within the flower of the pleasure which concealed it. Cause and effect, means and ends, seed and fruit, cannot be severed; for the effect already blooms in the cause, the end preexists in the means, the fruit in the seed."

-- Ralph Waldo Emerson


zer0netgain
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20 Apr 2014, 6:32 am

circular_reference wrote:
Worst part is that I was offered two jobs during the three years that I was there with much better pay and benefits. But, nope. I am hamstrung by an almost detrimental sense of loyalty and aversion to change so I didn't take the job after I was offered more pay at the Startup and promised control over development direction, which not surprisingly was never given.


Somewhat been there and done that.

I never got job offers to get away from the situation, but a year ago, I was in a similar place. Took a job and realized by the second month it was going to be a problem place to work. Started looking for a job right then. Had someone offered me a job, I would have walked out.

I learned long ago to not be very loyal to anyone until AFTER they started delivering on their promises. I'm loyal by nature, but experience taught me to not make that mistake again.

Sounds like the place you work is like any number of those "dot com" disasters that plagued the USA during the 1990s.



morslilleole
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20 Apr 2014, 1:02 pm

I know very well how you feel. I am kinda in the same boat. Only I have a Bachelors degree, but just 1.5 years of experience. I also know that I will get excellent feedback from my former workplace. But since I don't have a Master's or a lot of experience, people don't consider me.

It's a very frustrating and demotivating place to be... But I think the key is to stick with it, keep applying and someone will be interested. Though with your long experience I don't understand why they wouldn't sooner.

Sorry I don't have any good advice, just wanted to let you know there are others who struggles with the same.


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MissDorkness
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21 Apr 2014, 12:40 pm

circular_reference wrote:
I was laid off two months ago with 3 days notice after the tech startup that I worked for and it's top heavy Middle Management Six Sigma types spent 1.8 million chasing Investment funding with VaporWare.

The upside is that I am no longer constantly frustrated attempting to get mgt. to make the right choices. Such as not spending $50K to attend a trade show when we didn't have a product to really show off. Or not spending 10K a month for executive suites when we don't have a product, customer base or revenue. Or, not hiring tech support staff when we don't have a product to support. Best of all...no more meeting after meeting where the 42 long's wait around for their time to bloviate, spewing their ephemeral pie in the sky ideas that are impractical and/or just plain foolish. Geez, you'd think these types would take the Pereto Principal seriously.

I don't have any advice, I just wanted to relay how much I enjoyed your writing style. Excellently stated. :D



sueinphilly
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21 Apr 2014, 1:33 pm

not sure where the original poster is located but the job market for technical people (especially coders) is raging.

NYC and Silicon valley are teaming with jobs.

My son works at a tech startup (in sales) in NYC making more money than me (and he's only 24). they are always looking for people with great tech skills (don't worry about about having to go to one of those conferences, they like to send the sales folks to them - my kid has been to Mobile World Congress in Barcelona twice. I'm SO glad my son has people skills (he did NOT get them from him mom, ME)

I don't know all the latest skills that companies are looking for, but usually tech people are so freaking smart that they find acquiring new computer languages, skills fairly easy.