Is lack of motivation a central problem?

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TheSperg
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19 Dec 2014, 6:24 am

InThisTogether wrote:
I am not certain "motivation" is the right word, at least not in the traditional sense of the word. I think it has to do with some kind of....internal initiation switch. I find with myself and with both of my kids, it is often NOT an issue of motivation. It is an issue of being able to initiate, and sometimes there is a complete lack of "spark" to initiate the thing. There are plenty of things that I enjoy doing, but do not do. Not because I am not motivated--I enjoy it--but because I cannot seem to start the wheels in motion. The reason I hesitate to call it motivation is because "motivation" has both a volitional feel and an implication of desire.

I also think that declaring someone "unmotivated" is just a short step away from declaring them "lazy." I have found that when I considered myself or one of my kids unmotivated or "lazy," it doesn't seem to do much to fix the problem. However, when considering it difficulty initiating, it is easier to "fix." All one has to do is to figure out how to get it started.


I wasn't trying to imply laziness or any other negative aspect to it at all, in fact I offered two examples in the post to prove it has nothing to do with laziness. I was not and am not saying ASD kids are lazy at all, just to make it clear.

Imagine you were transported into a culture where it was the norm to do a ritual dance for thirty minutes before eating, you'd probably think it was pointless and ridiculous and refuse to do it and therefore be looked at with derision by most people. It is more like that, if you can't see the point of doing it and don't care about pleasing people socially well you're just not going to do it, you're not motivated to.

And yes I see the point about it being more difficult right off the bat and agree totally, it just another obstacle. That assumes you are able, and I said some because I realize for some ASD kids it is just so difficult motivation isn't an issue, or they are not able at all.

I've about gone crazy explaining to people that my son cannot be pressured or socially shamed into doing something, he doesn't understand it. On the other hand I can't remember as a child, and have never seen him do something for the sole purpose of spiting someone else or being a pain as other children will. He WANTS to do things the "right" way.

I think most NT children understand no more about the future and wider world and how others view them, but they do want to impress adults and social disapproval hits them hard, so they go along with what adults say just for these issues.

I can remember as a child refusing to talk to participate when my parents took me to psych pros because I felt insulted somehow, if my parents could not see I was able or intelligent and if the so called pros couldn't see it well then I didn't care how they saw me. I was also angry my parents would hang on the words of the experts instead of using their own intuition to see what I was capable of. Probably a theory of mind issue now that I think about it.

Oh and I did not post this for support so much as just to get a discussion going and see everyone's views, which has been interesting.



ASDMommyASDKid
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19 Dec 2014, 7:47 am

TheSperg wrote:
I can remember as a child refusing to talk to participate when my parents took me to psych pros because I felt insulted somehow, if my parents could not see I was able or intelligent and if the so called pros couldn't see it well then I didn't care how they saw me. I was also angry my parents would hang on the words of the experts instead of using their own intuition to see what I was capable of. Probably a theory of mind issue now that I think about it.



There is a lot pressure on parents, as I am sure you now know. The further back you go in the past, the more likely parents would defer to the experts. They didn't have the Internet or any way to confirm their gut feelings, back in the day.

I also don't think people had any idea about how the proverbial sausage is made, and how the experts don't agree, either.

The more NT your parents were, the more pressure they would feel to conform and the harder skepticism would be for them. Skepticism is something that I think society often tries to force out of people, and both NTs and Aspies can be pressured to question their own judgement. Strong-minded NTs can fight that pressure, but it is harder for them, I think. Aspies are also constantly taught to question their own judgement, and often that takes hold of them, too.

My mom is/was a people pleaser, by nature, and I found it a difficult thing to deal with as a child b/c what outsiders and extended family thought would often times come before what was good for us.



zette
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19 Dec 2014, 2:14 pm

InThisTogether wrote:
Who_Am_I wrote:
InThisTogether wrote:
I am not certain "motivation" is the right word, at least not in the traditional sense of the word. I think it has to do with some kind of....internal initiation switch. I find with myself and with both of my kids, it is often NOT an issue of motivation. It is an issue of being able to initiate, and sometimes there is a complete lack of "spark" to initiate the thing. There are plenty of things that I enjoy doing, but do not do. Not because I am not motivated--I enjoy it--but because I cannot seem to start the wheels in motion. The reason I hesitate to call it motivation is because "motivation" has both a volitional feel and an implication of desire.

I also think that declaring someone "unmotivated" is just a short step away from declaring them "lazy." I have found that when I considered myself or one of my kids unmotivated or "lazy," it doesn't seem to do much to fix the problem. However, when considering it difficulty initiating, it is easier to "fix." All one has to do is to figure out how to get it started.


Quoted for actually understanding the issue.


In all of my years, you may be the first person to ever agree with me or even understand what I am talking about. Perhaps you, me and my kids are 4 peas in a pod who do not share a common experience with others.


You're not alone -- this post reminded me that I had seen a chapter in Smart But Scattered specifically about 'Task Initiation' and how to teach it.



btbnnyr
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19 Dec 2014, 4:36 pm

ASDMommyASDKid wrote:
btbnnyr wrote:
I don't like to do things if they interfere with my special interests.
I don't feel like I can do anything at any moment, but I doubt that people generally feel that way.
I have high internal motivation for learning, so I had no problem doing school things.
Whatever I hated doing and procrastinated, I would still get done at the last minute.
Deadlines seem to help me get things done.
I read a study in which they gave autistic and neurotypical people easy tasks with small reward and hard tasks with big reward, and the people were allowed to choose which tasks they did, and the autistic group as a whole chose hard tasks with big reward more frequently than neurotypical people.
Maybe this is an approach that some parents might try, challenging the child with a hard task (could be made of lots of small tasks that you want them to do, but presented as one hard task), and give more reward than normal, like some amount of money that a child considers large.
Maybe this would only work if the child is not used to doing easy tasks with small reward though, and autistic children may be too used to doing this, if they have been trained using aba methods.


Maybe a stupid question, but maybe the thing that was hard for NTs was easy for the autistic kids and/or the thing that was easy for the NT kids was hard for the autistic ones.

I say that b/c my son would way prefer to do a "hard" one-step thing, then something with too many steps, that is technically easier, but more tedious. I don't think issues with multi-step things is unusual, b/c it is is one of the questions on the criteria for little ones to get diagnosed. (In fairness, that has to do with following multiple step instructions that are usually given verbally, so there could be auditory processing concerns there, too)

He would also rather do a multi-step problem that is not tedious, then anything tedious. So, basically hard but single step>multistep>tedious, is his line of preferences. I don't think that is unusual either, as I hate doing tedious things, too.

We have never done any aba (other than the analysis part for behavior.)


I forgot what the tasks were, but the hard task was hard for both groups, and the easy was easy for both.
It's just that the autistics chose the hard task for big reward.
I can understand this mindset, as I would rather do a hard task for big reward too.

I don't see lack of internal motivation as a character flaw, because it is not something that can be completely controlled by a person, like lack of initiation, lack of eye contact, and lack of social cognition are not character flaws and completely controllable either. Some people do seem to lack internal motivation and require external rewards to do things, other people have a lot of internal motivation and do things for no external reward or no immediate external reward.

But I don't believe that people are automatically stuck if they were born or developed with lower motivation or initiation than others. They can still work to improve functioning in areas that require motivation and initiation, as people can also work to improve social functioning even without developing much more social cognition than one already has.


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