Am I Wrong in Being Irritated?
20 Feb 2015, 2:23 pm
Thanks for sharing all you did in the last post. I am sorry you are in a rough space right now.
I think it may come down to this, at this moment in time: right now you could really use some guidance and /or empathy from parents who can relate to you, and for the XXXXth time in your life, you know you don't have that. It makes perfect sense that you have a need to vent and get the frustration out.
But it sounds like you do have other relatives who do understand you, and I suggest you reach out to them.
Best of luck to you.
_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).
21 Feb 2015, 12:14 pm
Sorry to hear about the rough time you are going through.
I wish I was as nice and thoughtful as DW_a_mom and ASDMommyASDKid, then I would have been more temperate in my initial response. Lucky for us they are here, eh?
Your post reminds me of a time when I was in trouble trying to figure out what to do after college. Drink doesn't help at all. Hold on and try to get things that you want out of life. Nothing comes easily, but having goals and working toward them really is going to get you somewhere in time. Also, DW_a_mom's excellent advice about reaching out to those relatives who can help can really be extended to all people. Sometimes you can find caring mentors through mutual interest in some subject or activity and these people can be like the family you deserved but didn't get. Take help from good people, no matter who they are.
Good luck.
22 Feb 2015, 3:31 am
I wish I was as nice and thoughtful as DW_a_mom and ASDMommyASDKid, then I would have been more temperate in my initial response. Lucky for us they are here, eh?
Your post reminds me of a time when I was in trouble trying to figure out what to do after college. Drink doesn't help at all. Hold on and try to get things that you want out of life. Nothing comes easily, but having goals and working toward them really is going to get you somewhere in time. Also, DW_a_mom's excellent advice about reaching out to those relatives who can help can really be extended to all people. Sometimes you can find caring mentors through mutual interest in some subject or activity and these people can be like the family you deserved but didn't get. Take help from good people, no matter who they are.
Good luck.
It is good to see you posting more, Adamantium. I hope all is well.
22 Feb 2015, 11:56 am
Thanks for the kind words! All is well--I may have been less active here because I needed a little break from WP after following the "self diagnosis" conflict fairly closely and seeing the distress it caused--and then things got very busy at work and at home (I am being much more involved in my kids' homework than before and it's disheartening: sloppy math and science teachers, bad implementation of the IEP... whine, moan, repeat.).
09 Mar 2015, 9:28 am
Now, I know I am talking to an autistic help forum and I'm probably preaching to the opposite crowd, but I have a tendency to try to prove a point against the odds, which might say more poorly about me than my parents themselves. I don't mean any bad intension/harm, but I have been struggling in these circumstances, am I the only one who is struggling with this? And, ultimately, am I a bad person in believing that a person on that spectrum should not responsibly have children? I know that growing up being hurtful to parents who don't understand is very leading, but I can't be wrong in believing that children around the world deserve parents who can connect right? And really, since I can gauge other people's body language, I am hyper tuned into others' slightest discomfort regardless of whether I am to do with any of that, am I wrong in blaming my parents for my hypersensitivity and social anxiety?
Did your parents actually do anything worse than simply embarrassing you in front of others? Because from what I understand, most teenagers are embarrassed by their parents, NT or AS. So if embarrassing your kids is so terrible that you shouldn't have children, virtually no one should have children.
In other words, you're acting like a typical teenager.
04 Apr 2015, 1:54 am
This does not constitute a diagnosis. Perhaps your father is on the spectrum. Perhaps he isn't. I couldn't say.
Many parents come off this way. The truth of the matter is, many of them do understand that you think something is cool/nice, but they have either seen it before, have seen too many things to care, it's not something they are interested in, or they know it will come and go like everything else. For example, bleached blond streaked hair on guys used to be all the rave. Then it became "gay", now it's "gay" and dated.
Someone make that claim of me, but I inherited this trait from my grandfather, who was not on the spectrum. It's not that we don't/didn't understand aesthetics. It's that it is more energy efficient for us to concentrate on the functional aspect of things. This is not necessarily an ASD trait. I'm sure there are many on the spectrum who are very big on aesthetics.
I don't understand why NASCAR is enjoyable to people. But I respect that it is. Most people don't understand why my interests are enjoyable to me....I can't say they reciprocate the respect.
This isn't uncommon in the general population. Some people just need routines and consistency. Others are just not so cognitively inclined to question things, or question but don't see a reason to deviate from said routines. The difference between this and those on the spectrum who need routines is, a person on the spectrum who needs routine usually does so because of difficulty anticipating the future. When their routine is ruined, then they have no idea what to expect for the rest of the day, and this can cause a lot of anxiety because those on the spectrum process the world differently, and to be able to navigate the world can take a level of planning that those who are on the spectrum can't do in real time.
Are you Asian by any chance? I ask because this sounds like a very culturally Asian way of thinking for parents. You are correct in that the benefit of such social engagements can outweigh the negatives, and it's likely not that your parents are oblivious to this. But if you have Asian parents, who were born in Asia, they come from a culture of respect to one's elders (parents included), and they have spent their adult life investing in you. Instead of trying to convince them why it's a good idea to let you go out drinking with your friends, and that their ideas are wrong, you would be better off talking about the importance of social networking in becoming successful in this country. In many instances, it is ultimately your friends from college who will get you those high paying jobs. That is why so many highly intelligent people with Asperger's Syndrome and 4.0 GPAs are out of work. We have difficulty with social networking.
There are many people on the spectrum who have children and who are excellent parents. Most people on the spectrum have special interests, and for many females on the spectrum, their special interest is children. While they are not my special interest, and I do not have children of my own, people are usually surprised to find out how good I am with them. The reason is, I remember what it's like to be a child and I understand the child's point of view. I believe this is because my brain likely never trimmed the synapses from my early childhood.
I think people often think their parents don't understand. But I think parents actually do understand, because most parents have "been there" themselves before when they were younger. As the saying goes though, the parents are older and wiser. They know the roads that lead to danger, and they know that things that younger people go through phases of wanting to do certain things, or wanting to buy certain things, which, in the long run, become irrelevant to their happiness, or even detrimental to it. But sometimes parents forget that too much wisdom and direction can be a bad things, and that to grow properly as individuals, people need to experience things for themselves, and make their own mistakes.
You had mentioned you are hypersensitive and have social anxiety. Do you by any chance have borderline personality disorder? I ask because I have read that this often develops in sensitive individuals who grow up in an invalidating environment, and it sounds like you feel invalidated by your parents. Anyway, you do have some valid points about the importance of social interaction.
26 May 2015, 4:37 pm
Chronos,
I wasn't entirely clear when I post here I know, but it is very difficult to be entirely precise when making the points because it is such a broad and elusive topic. Most of your points are valid but they aren't exactly what I was referring to, let me try my best to explain here.
1.) Yes, I am ethnically Asian, but that isn't entirely relevant, because I spent my childhood in Hong Kong, around other Asians as well, and my comparison is relative based on my observations on other families and parents in Hong Kong, who are Asian too (obviously). And contrary to the stereotype, they don't actually have high expectations at all, in fact they don't care if I go to grad school or earn big or score high or what not.
The point is that, regardless of the benefits/detriments/importance of social engagements (which everyone around me in Hong Kong indulge in and promote extensively), social engagements and academic success bare no relations. In a logical argument it is a red herring: doing well in school exams is being able to make the approved answer/response to a set of circumstances being set by examiners; going out and socializing is being in a social situation for my pleasure. Those two things are irrelevant to each other, and when people say "dedicate more time/spend more time/concentrate in studying", it implies, in practice, spending upwards of 5 hours every day to study. Who the hell actually spend that much time studying??? I have many schoolmates in my life and NO ONE needs to hit the books half that often. I am a crammer myself so it might be different for me, but I managed to get by up to grad school with not studying more than 10 hours the night before for any exams, the idea of "spending more time" is absurd, and yet people, not only my parents but many, still use that.
2.) When I say that my parents "don't understand", I wasn't referring to them "not understanding" me, but them not understanding logic/things/life in general.
Here is an example: my dad listens and watches news extensively and almost exclusively, he wouldn't miss any news update that comes up every half hour. During dinner he watches news, twice, on two channels. He felt uneasy when watching anything of pure entertainment value (perhaps its just my personal opinion but here I'll stick my neck out and say that it is the same as the puritan mentality of feeling "safe" doing what "good fellas" do, or people who want to convince themselves and other people that they are intelligent that they are all about news and career that sort of stuff).
But here is the irony, an intelligent being with good processing prowess make subjective decisions that justifies a best course of action based on the limited information. Reading the news more does not relate to "being intelligent" in any manner, reading/being exposed to information in general gives one a better probability to have more/better information to determine the course of action, but only when the things being read are credible and relevant, most of the things that he is reading are either duplicated or of completely no consequence to any decision making he needs to encounter at all. Sure, he can do that for his curiosity, but if that is the case, then he is doing that for entertainment, so I don't see why watching entertainment TV programs would constitute a less "knowledgable/useful" person, it is just him and his comfort zone. The same goes for the people who say that they don't do things because they are "concentrating on their career/academics", think about nothing but work/school doesn't help making your work/school better by any means, having a passion in such may help, but ironically, thinking in that manner is a first sign of a lack of intelligence.
3.) A lot of their behavior are based off of this line of logic really, and I'm not saying that all people with that line of thinking are on the spectrum (that would imply that all Puritans are on the spectrum). But here's the thing, I'm gonna quote Tommy Jefferson here "The man who reads nothing but news are less educated than the man who reads nothing at all". And watching both sides of the argument doesn't help either because neutrality is not the same as balance, (e.g. false balance being balancing Judaism with a Holocaust denial, or balancing a string theorist with a guy who believes that the universe is made up of Coca Puffs, both sides of the story balanced, but irrelevant). It is just like that for them, us or them thinking, groups being interpreted as a being (humanized) instead of what it is (a collection of beings), humanization of things in general, being "courteous" but not realizing what actually make life easier for the others (putting others first all the time but unable to comprehend what others actually want, being unhappy about working an extra bit harder than others when it doesn't seem reciprocal, and generally feeling entitled to something because they did put others first because they don't realize the assumption of "mutual selflessness" is more complex when factoring in context, ulterior motives, circumstances, etc.)
- I understand that a lot of religious/conservative type think like that too, but when I try to break things down in the world around them in context and why things happen their minds seem to not function at that level. And it doesn't help that I am about as individualistic as it can get (which makes the Asian culture/thinking very annoying for me). (Side note: The general Asian collectivist way of thinking for me is a lack of justice. Just dessert is one bearing the consequence of their decisions and actions, both good or bad. Someone else's merit does not transfer to you (no such thing is "doing the nation proud", especially when a nation is merely a collection of individual with arguable cultural similarities); and you don't get incriminated by association (the very basis of racism). Thus, in general, the general Asian type, the religious type, and the social conservative type really get on my nerves.
But of course, I'd need to clarify, I don't think that they are on the spectrum just because they think like that, I think they are on the spectrum because they feel compelled to catch up with news every half f**king hour, their thinking is incongruent with society context (even amongst their cohort), can't stand any noise, needs loads of me time for no reasons, doesn't do things/make things happen just because (avoidant in a sense), need the world to work around their schedule, very uncomfortable to be around in general, etc.
I know it's a very long rant that is relevant to no one, but hey, it's a rant, cheers.
26 May 2015, 10:28 pm
I wasn't entirely clear when I post here I know, but it is very difficult to be entirely precise when making the points because it is such a broad and elusive topic. Most of your points are valid but they aren't exactly what I was referring to, let me try my best to explain here.
1.) Yes, I am ethnically Asian, but that isn't entirely relevant, because I spent my childhood in Hong Kong, around other Asians as well, and my comparison is relative based on my observations on other families and parents in Hong Kong, who are Asian too (obviously). And contrary to the stereotype, they don't actually have high expectations at all, in fact they don't care if I go to grad school or earn big or score high or what not.
The point is that, regardless of the benefits/detriments/importance of social engagements (which everyone around me in Hong Kong indulge in and promote extensively), social engagements and academic success bare no relations. In a logical argument it is a red herring: doing well in school exams is being able to make the approved answer/response to a set of circumstances being set by examiners; going out and socializing is being in a social situation for my pleasure. Those two things are irrelevant to each other, and when people say "dedicate more time/spend more time/concentrate in studying", it implies, in practice, spending upwards of 5 hours every day to study. Who the hell actually spend that much time studying??? I have many schoolmates in my life and NO ONE needs to hit the books half that often. I am a crammer myself so it might be different for me, but I managed to get by up to grad school with not studying more than 10 hours the night before for any exams, the idea of "spending more time" is absurd, and yet people, not only my parents but many, still use that.
2.) When I say that my parents "don't understand", I wasn't referring to them "not understanding" me, but them not understanding logic/things/life in general.
Here is an example: my dad listens and watches news extensively and almost exclusively, he wouldn't miss any news update that comes up every half hour. During dinner he watches news, twice, on two channels. He felt uneasy when watching anything of pure entertainment value (perhaps its just my personal opinion but here I'll stick my neck out and say that it is the same as the puritan mentality of feeling "safe" doing what "good fellas" do, or people who want to convince themselves and other people that they are intelligent that they are all about news and career that sort of stuff).
But here is the irony, an intelligent being with good processing prowess make subjective decisions that justifies a best course of action based on the limited information. Reading the news more does not relate to "being intelligent" in any manner, reading/being exposed to information in general gives one a better probability to have more/better information to determine the course of action, but only when the things being read are credible and relevant, most of the things that he is reading are either duplicated or of completely no consequence to any decision making he needs to encounter at all. Sure, he can do that for his curiosity, but if that is the case, then he is doing that for entertainment, so I don't see why watching entertainment TV programs would constitute a less "knowledgable/useful" person, it is just him and his comfort zone. The same goes for the people who say that they don't do things because they are "concentrating on their career/academics", think about nothing but work/school doesn't help making your work/school better by any means, having a passion in such may help, but ironically, thinking in that manner is a first sign of a lack of intelligence.
3.) A lot of their behavior are based off of this line of logic really, and I'm not saying that all people with that line of thinking are on the spectrum (that would imply that all Puritans are on the spectrum). But here's the thing, I'm gonna quote Tommy Jefferson here "The man who reads nothing but news are less educated than the man who reads nothing at all". And watching both sides of the argument doesn't help either because neutrality is not the same as balance, (e.g. false balance being balancing Judaism with a Holocaust denial, or balancing a string theorist with a guy who believes that the universe is made up of Coca Puffs, both sides of the story balanced, but irrelevant). It is just like that for them, us or them thinking, groups being interpreted as a being (humanized) instead of what it is (a collection of beings), humanization of things in general, being "courteous" but not realizing what actually make life easier for the others (putting others first all the time but unable to comprehend what others actually want, being unhappy about working an extra bit harder than others when it doesn't seem reciprocal, and generally feeling entitled to something because they did put others first because they don't realize the assumption of "mutual selflessness" is more complex when factoring in context, ulterior motives, circumstances, etc.)
- I understand that a lot of religious/conservative type think like that too, but when I try to break things down in the world around them in context and why things happen their minds seem to not function at that level. And it doesn't help that I am about as individualistic as it can get (which makes the Asian culture/thinking very annoying for me). (Side note: The general Asian collectivist way of thinking for me is a lack of justice. Just dessert is one bearing the consequence of their decisions and actions, both good or bad. Someone else's merit does not transfer to you (no such thing is "doing the nation proud", especially when a nation is merely a collection of individual with arguable cultural similarities); and you don't get incriminated by association (the very basis of racism). Thus, in general, the general Asian type, the religious type, and the social conservative type really get on my nerves.
But of course, I'd need to clarify, I don't think that they are on the spectrum just because they think like that, I think they are on the spectrum because they feel compelled to catch up with news every half f**king hour, their thinking is incongruent with society context (even amongst their cohort), can't stand any noise, needs loads of me time for no reasons, doesn't do things/make things happen just because (avoidant in a sense), need the world to work around their schedule, very uncomfortable to be around in general, etc.
I know it's a very long rant that is relevant to no one, but hey, it's a rant, cheers.
It seems obvious to me that, if your parents are as I understand your representation of them, that you are more well rounded than they are, and understand the value of more humanistic endeavors. My grandfather liked to pretend that these things were unimportant, and looking back, I believe it was his biggest fault as a businessman and investor. That being said, I'm not sure why your parents are as they are, however I think it would be wise to not seek validation from them on things they apparently don't understand....if that is what you are actually seeking. Be self assured and self confident.
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