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angelbear
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11 Mar 2010, 11:29 am

My son seems to do more of it in a louder way also because I think he enjoys hearing the words and his voice. Most of the time what happens is he will say a random word or phrase that comes to his mind, and if he likes the way it sounds, he will say it multiple times. Sometimes the words are made up words. I have not noticed that my son does it too much under his breath. I have wondered if he does it to block out other distractions though. For the most part it seems like he does it as a form of entertainment.

I think he does do it for attention sometimes too though. My husband and I have noticed that when we try to have a discussion about the day or something else, my son will get really loud saying words or singing songs so that we are not able to have a conversation. He does it at school sometimes when the teachers are trying to teach. He will start clapping his hands and saying random stuff or singing. I think he also does some of it because we do laugh sometimes. He will say silly stuff like "broccoli-zuchini, or "donut waffle" or "cadillac-bug" (cars are a special interest) Anyway, I think he is just trying to make us laugh. I guess when we laugh, it may reinforce it. Like I said, I am okay with it at home, just concerned about it at school.



kdeering75
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22 Feb 2011, 9:49 pm

angelbear wrote:
hi all-

I went through some of my papers and found something my son's speech therapist had given me on verbal perseveration. This is what she called it. I guess perseveration is "getting stuck on things"
Anyway, I read back over it, and decided to share it in hopes that maybe it will help someone else.

Verbal perseveration can be caused by several things:

1) It is another form of self stimulation. They get sensory feedback from the noise internally, or from hearing their own voice. It's been described to me by others as verbal diahrea and not meant to be mean, at all.

2) It is a form of anxiety, especially noted during or preceding transitions.

3) It is an inability to put closure on one thing and move to the next.

4) It is a way to get attention It keeps us listening to him.

5) They are not able to express what they really want to, so just repeat the same thing.
I think his learning disability doesn't help because of his Short term verbal memory is poor and that add that with his low processing speed. He cant' remember long enough to share it so he wants to repeat it so we and maybe he won't forget.



This is what I was trying to describe about my son in the post that I'm trying to explain to the doctor about I don't think it's a medication issue. Glad I searched the internet and was able to find help to direct me here.



alone
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23 Feb 2011, 9:10 am

humanoid5 wrote:
I'd say it's saying or making noise for their own enjoyment, or it soothes or makes them happy. My son seems to do it because he just enjoys it. Just now, I gave him some apple slices for his snack, and he said "thank you, hugs are the only thing in the world", and he's not stressed at all. He just likes to say the same things over and over. He does do it in a stressful situation too, but also when he's happy & stress-free. It really is no different than things like him laying and moving car/truck wheels in front of his eyes, run/pace back & forth, etc. he does these things because he enjoys them.


aww this is a sweet post..it is because something is stuck and it feels good to say it..I'm stuck on m&ms right now, I like saying it...we had an ice storm the other day...said ice about a hundred times and then laughed...



angelbear
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23 Feb 2011, 11:52 am

Funny this thread came up, because we are still dealing with this.

KDeering, glad I was able to help.

You are right, I don't think medication is going to help this. My son's teachers have been working with him really hard, trying different techniques. He is still doing it some, but it is reducing.

I posted the original thread almost a year ago, and we are still struggling at home with it. I don't really mind the repeating certain words and phrases over. Usually after a while we will tell my son, "OKay, we are all done with ______ (whatever word or phrase he is repeating) Usually, he will stop it then.

I am noticing a pattern of the louder random noises though. If we sit down to do homework for instance, if my son does not want to do it, he will start making noises and shaking his head and waving his hands. Sometimes, he is just doing the noises for entertainment. He will make noises while he is watching cartoons, or he will run back and forth in the house making them while waving his hands around in the air.

When we go out in public, I am reminding him not to do the noises and a lot of the time he can control it if I give him something to do with his hands.

That is the other thing I have noticed. If my son is engaged in something he is interested in, most of the time, he does not do the noises. So, I think it is also a form of self stimulation.

He also still does it when my husband and I are having a conversation. We are politely asking him to stop and telling him that when we stop talking, then he can have a turn. We also ask him to go into another room if he is going to continue to make his loud noises.

Hope some of this is helpful. Please feel free to send me a private message if you want to talk about it anymore.



Covuschik
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24 Feb 2011, 11:19 am

Angelbear - we've been dealing with this in the opposite direction. Instead of saying we're all done, we call vocal stims "the word of the day" although usually it ends up turning into the word of the year. :)

I know in our case, it's definitely a processing speed/memory issue. When you ask a question that isn't an automatic immediate answerable question, the answer is always, "Bananas!".

Elizabeth



magicmom
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05 Mar 2011, 1:03 pm

I wonder.....

If you have seen an increase in stimming that it may be because of added stress in his
classroom.

Everyone has ways they cope with stress or their environment. Clicking a pen, twirling
Hair, chewing gum, chewing a pencil, tapping the table... For AS kids it can be
Repeating words, flapping arms, rubbing a soft toy. The teacher in the class needs to be
supportive.

And keep in mind with some Autistic, Asperger's, NT kids their environment is very stressful.
A normal child might not notice the glow of the lights, the cool air of the vents or the
social interactions of the girls across the table. But an AS kid might feel it but be unable
to express what is scary, stressful, upsetting or even know that he/she needs to calm down.
A classroom of 20 or 30 kids can be full of anxieties. Loud noises, kids bullying others,
Social interactions. eye contact, loud bells, someone else kicking their seat,
jumping about, physical movement.... All this can be scary and cause your son to
use coping mechanisms to deal with his surroundings.

Stimming. He may be repeating words and talking loudly so he can calm himself.

If a teacher is complaing about the Stim she needs to find out why. What has changed
and why is this a problem for her. If it disrupting the classroom the teacher needs to
'find a way your son can calm himself so he does not have to do this to cope.

The "word" repetition is a way to sooth himself and have a sense of rhythm. There are many
different things you can do or he can do. Maybe an Ipod or mp3 player of soothing
relaxing music he can use while in class. When he begins to stim.
Or maybe the teacher would let him sit next to a white noise machine or a fan or some
soothing sound maker. Low enough it would not disrupt her teaching or the other students but
enough to help your own son cope with the stress of the room. If he is using words
repeated it may be a sound issue for him. The word repeated creates a sense of
order.

Do loud noises upset your son? Does he like the sound of running water?

When he is most relaxed is it because he is in a quiet room or a room that has background
noise?

Find out how he is calm and then the school needs to help provide ways that he
can either find a safe quiet library to go to when things are scary or a place in the
room that is calm. And as I said in another post. It really is okay if he stims. My son
is 17 and used to do this as small child. He no longer does and I wish I could go back
and yell at the teachers. They should have provided a calmer environment for him.
Your son has every right to chatter away if this helps him stay calm. And they need
to accept this or help calm the environement so he won't HAVE to stim to feel safe.
Gosh I am sorry to come on so strong. I wish I could wave a magic wand so all our
children would be loved, accepted and feel safe.

Just my humble motherly advice.
~magicmom



aurea
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05 Mar 2011, 2:01 pm

Just thought I'd chime in. :)
Are you sure it's not a form of tourettes? My son has an AS and tourettes dx (plus adhd,ocd and gad)
I was told when we put him on adhd/ocd meds we had to be careful as to which ones he was given, because the more commonly used adhd meds can cause tics.
I have found with J my 12 year old, there can be a fine line between stims and tics. They both happen more when stressed or really excited. Stims can be held back or controlled more when he is asked to stop (they may be replaced with something else though), tics maybe be paused but seam to have to be seen threw to the finish and often the more attention given to the tic the worse it becomes.
Stims seam to be more of a voluntary reaction, where as tics an involuntary. having said all that though, J does seam to be able to suppress some tics for a short while. However once in a "safe" place they are more pronounced than ever.

quick little story, don't know if it's appropriate or even helpful.

J had just had his hair cut( he was anxious about this but had agreed to having it done).
We leave the shop and had to get a few more dinner supplies from other shops. J was happy with himself, because he'd finally faced a fear (hair cut) and it had been cut exactly as he'd asked and he'd survived it. :) As soon as we left the shop, J started throat clearing noises, he began picking at himself (under wear, does this all the time, often not realizing he does it) and scratching his head (this one is uncontrolled he doesn't even realize he does it until someone tells him, he does it all the time) I ignore all his little actions, this is my son this is who he is and what he does. I hand him my coin purse to hold because I need two hands to pick out some fruit. He starts following me around the shop, click,click,click again and again. He is clicking the catch on the coin purse. He is still, throat clearing, undie picking, head scratching (but not so bad whilst he has the purse to click, the purse is helping to calm him) The whole time he is also talking a hundred miles an hour. :)

Prior to entering the hairdressers and even when trying to communicate with the hairdresser, J's speech was stammered. Once out of the shop his speech was back to normal.


_________________
Mum of 2 fantastic boys. oldest 21 yrs= newly dx'ed ASD
youngest 12yrs =dx'ed ASD, ADHD,OCD,GAD and tourettes.


angelbear
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05 Mar 2011, 3:31 pm

Hi all.

@Magicmom---Well, my son is in a special needs kindergarten class with only 5 kids. Over time the teacher has been analyzing when he does the noises, and most of the time it is to avoid doing his work. I am pretty inclined to agree with her because he does the same thing to me when we sit at home to do his homework. If I say okay, let's write a word that rhymes with dog......If he doesn't want to do it, he will start waving his hands and head and making noises. He has never been bothered by loud noises. He actually enjoys loud noises like fireworks and sirens and screeching noises, so I don't think it is that. He does get distracted by visual stimuli in the environment, that makes him want to stop what he is doing to check the other things out. As far as stress at school, I am not going to say that he has no stress, but he never complains about going to school, and he is in the most accomodating environment possible. He has therapists that are available to him and an IEP in place. So the teachers are understanding of it.

Also, he is doing it at home A LOT. Our home is not stressful, he is an only child, and I am a stay at home mom. Most of the time, I feel like he is doing this as a form of self stimulation. He will run back and forth waving his hands in the air making loud noises and singing to the top of his lungs. He will do it when my husband and I are trying to have a conversation, and we will politely ask him to stop. He will look at us with a smile on his face and keep doing it. He also does it when he is watching a cartoon now. He will watch the cartoon at the same time that he is making his noises.

The repetitious words and phrases have subsided for the most part, but the noise making has amped up. My husband who is part Aspie himself, has started wearing earplugs sometimes because it is just so loud. We allow him to do it at home until it just gets to the point that we are about to lose it, and then we tell him that he can continue the noises, but he will have to go to his room to do them. Most of the time, as soon as he is in his room, he will stop the noises.

As far as Tourette's, I have wondered this off and on for awhile. I have not taken him to a doctor because he is still only 5 and has a diagnosis of PDD-NOS, I don't want to put him on any medication at this time, so I just don't know if there is a reason to pursue this diagnosis just yet. Also, he seems to have control over the noises. If we go somewhere like church or a restaurant, we will tell him that he will need to keep his noises down, and he will. Also, if he is engaged in something that he enjoys, he usually doesn't do it.

So at this point, we are just working with it. It seems to be getting a little better at school, so as long as it is getting under control at school, I can handle it at home. I am not trying to make him stop altogether, we are just hoping it can be controlled a little. I hope I don't sound like a mean parent, because I do love my son.

The good thing is that while the vocal stimming is still continuing, his speech continues to improve daily. I am very happy for this.



magicmom
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06 Mar 2011, 1:30 pm

Thank you for explaning everything. You are very lucky to have your son in such a fantastic
program, with teachers and aides who are so caring. I do not know as much about Tourettes.
When my son has anxiety he begins to stim. On another note, my non AS child was a big
talker and very loud at age 5. Sometimes they do start to outgrow it.
Thinking of you and hoping you figure this all out.
magicmom



Kitty70
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06 Mar 2011, 6:37 pm

My 5 year old likes to make up long stories ( that sort of go on and on ) about her stuffed toys and insists I listen to the whole thing. If I won't she'll tell the cat. Is that verbal stimming? She calls it Tabetha TV. Her name is Tabetha. It even has an opening theme song.

"Tabetha TV!"
"Tabetha TV!"
"Yeahhh!"

In class the teacher wrote one of her stories down and read it to the class. She was so proud and now wants to tell stories all the time.



angelbear
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06 Mar 2011, 9:11 pm

Hi Kitty, my son makes up stories too. He gets on a subject, and if you don't agree with him, he will get upset. I don't think this is verbal stimming. My son makes repetitive noises,for example one that he likes to do is "Lululululululululululul---He will do this while he is waving his hands and shaking his head. He will take songs and distort the words and sing them at the top of his lungs.

Magicmom, I am hoping he will start to outgrow some of this! LOL!



Elismom
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09 Mar 2011, 3:32 pm

Okay so on the topic of verbal stimming how do you know when it really is a verbal stimm. My son who was recently diagnosed PDD-NOS will repete things over and over. If my bf goes out for a smoke sometimes he repetes the same phrase until he comes back inside. Sometimes he says it just from seeing the pack of smokes lying around the house. Sometimes he even does it when he is at his dads and has been there for a few days. So how do we know what is a verbal stimm and what isn't. We are new to this whole Autism diagnosis and still trying to figure it all out. Thanks in advance.



Parysa
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12 Mar 2011, 2:09 pm

My son's main one is "meep." He makes up other words, but meep is his favorite and he'll say it over and over. When he was younger, he would be saying "I like cats" and it would take forever b/c he'd actually say, "I lik-k-k-k-k-k-k-k-k-k-k-k-k-k-k-k-k-ke cat-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-tssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss." It wasn't so much stuttering as it seemed like he would get stuck on a certain sound and repeat it until we broke him out of it and then he'd get stuck on another one. He'd get so caught up in one sound sometimes that he'd forget what he was saying and just repeat the sound, sometimes for 30 minutes or more.