How do you learn NOT to be naive?

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Joined: 22 Feb 2008
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04 Aug 2008, 1:16 pm

This has been an interesting read.

I'm NT and I've been accused of being naive and, the truth is, if I have to pick naive over cynical and negative, I pick naive. In many ways, I choose to be naive.

Still, with our kids, there are obvious dangers from being TOO naive, and that aspect I do try to address with my son. I see myself as naive but not stupid, so while it might be easy to con a $5 bill off of me, luring me into a dark alley or getting me to believe a Nigerian bank scam is NOT going to happen.

How to pass that on to my son ... interesting question. I would say that I am trying to teach him to be skeptical. And to apply logic. Is it a big deal if you hand over change to someone who claims to be homeless but who really isn't? To my mind, not really. Is it a big deal if you ignore a very slight jibe and continue happily in the conversation? Again, to me, it's not. But forming partnerships, business deals, going on dates ... those are on another level, and I share with my son common schemes and cons that I've read about affecting children. Sometimes there isn't much to be lost by being naive. Sometimes there is. Knowing the difference is important, because becoming too wary of the world spoils it, and makes life needlessly unpleasant.

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Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).

Bunni
Deinonychus

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04 Aug 2008, 1:35 pm

In people with AS though, being naive or gullible isn't a choice. It's often part of who they are. Most NT's will pick up alot of this stuff by osmosis as they mature. They learn what to say and not say, they learn all those subtle things. For someone with AS, all those things need to be specifically taught. They will pick up on some things that an NT won't notice, but they will be lost on others.

And it is needed for all those reasons you mention DW a mom

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Bunni

That which doesn't kill me, makes me stronger, and really pisses me off.

DW_a_mom
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04 Aug 2008, 2:27 pm

Bunni wrote:

You are right, of course. It's just that I'd hate to turn my son into a distrustful pessimist in the effort to keep him from being too naive - getting the right balance is a tough one. So far, I'm simply keeping more control over his life than would be normal for a child his age, and he likes it that way. Long run, I'm going to have to pass that on to him, of course. How ... hmmm ... we're learning that as we go, I guess.

I guess I just don't want people to assume that a little naive is such a bad thing, as long as the more serious parameters are covered.

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schleppenheimer
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05 Aug 2008, 9:29 pm

That's one of the bad things about this whole "naive" issue, is that we love this characteristic, and it would be WONDERFUL if our children could retain some of the innocence, but we want so badly to make sure that our children are SAFE and feel comfortable among an entire world of people who are NOT INNOCENT.

I actually have this mental picture in my mind -- that my son becomes this taller version of himself, with the same big smile, the same cocky walk like he owns the joint (the one NT characteristic he has), and the same innocence, but somehow he will make innocence COOL. It's a dream, remember. . .

Who knows? Maybe he can make the dream happen. . .

2ukenkerl
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05 Aug 2008, 10:43 pm

sinsboldly wrote:

the best thing I learned was that I was naive. And to look at things from various angles before acting on it. I had to lose my charming innocence by being used by people, having the 'being used' something I cared about, too. Usually, I didn't want to think badly about the person, so I would forgive them. After all, weren't we suppose to forgive those that trespass?

But then I learned you were not supposed to forget, just to forgive. I then had to remember that people will use me for their own purposes and that I am supposed to not forget that is not good to let them do. So I had to remember all the times I was used because it was bad. I didn't like remembering the bad things so I had to stop letting them use me.

that is how I learned to not be naive.

but I would rather BE naive and not remember.

Merle

The religious ideal is to forgive AND forget, so you don't hold it against them. Frankly, if someone INTENTIONALLY causes my grief, or never learns, they don't deserve my forgiveness. I forgive if it is not due to extreme carlessness, and is an accident. Still, I don't generally forget.

BTW YEAH, I know what you mean. I wish I could be, and that the WORLD could have, a naivete and get along. Not being naive is like locking your home. If a friend comes over, they can't take shelter in your home, you might get locked out of your home, and you can't even give friends or some neighbors a ride! The world seemed a LOT nicer when I was a kid.

Bunni
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06 Aug 2008, 2:05 am

The world has changed...

At 12, I and a friend could take the subway into Boston, and walk around by ourselves.

When I think back on that, and look at how the world is now, and try to imagine my kids doing it....*scary*

Of course I still freak out when my son (22) takes my car out. lol

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Cori
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06 Aug 2008, 8:43 am

spudnik wrote:

This may sound mean, but I wouldn't be overly protective of him, he's got to learn these skills on his own, or he will always be naive. He sound's like he's a smart kid, and its very good that he is always asking questions in class, there is nothing wrong with that. The best thing in the long run would let him interact with anyone he wants to, sure he's going to meet up with the occasional bully, but anyone who has gone though school has met up with those too.

I completely agree. My son comes home and tells me what got him mad at school and I can then tell him what he could have done differently. It's really hard for him to apply my advice in real life situations...but he's trying.

Bunni
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06 Aug 2008, 11:18 am

Cori wrote:

spudnik wrote:

Social stories are great for this, and if there is trouble with an obvious social story, you could make it part of conversation. The first part is there, he tells you what made him mad. What could you have done differently? Let him try to come up with solutions rather than it being your advice first. If the first idea isn't the right thing, ask him to come up with a couple of ideas. Finally what would have happened do you think if the new idea would have occured. What can you do about it next time? My daughter hates my advice and especially any advice from others such as If I were you I'd do this....because she isn't the other person and then we get into theory of mind issues!

If I create the situation to include her and talk with her instead of at her, it's better.

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Bunni

That which doesn't kill me, makes me stronger, and really pisses me off.

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