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KagamineLen
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27 Feb 2015, 4:53 pm

ominous wrote:
Misery wrote:
And I dont know where in the world laziness could fit into that at all.


Didn't ya know that people can tell how lazy and unfit someone's parents are by whether or not a person's voice sounds old enough to be playing an MA game? I have to get my kid off steam asap lest somebody assume I don't know what he's doing on there when he plays mature games.

It certainly couldn't be because I have long and involved discussions about the games my son plays, watch him play the games, sometimes play with him, and have developed a healthy relationship with him based on trust without arbitrary definitions set by the censorship industry to determine what he is and isn't mature enough to play. Nah, couldn't be that. I'm just too lazy and neglectful to bother. Probably why I home ed him, too, because I just can't be bothered to get him ready for school in the morning. ;)


Then you have people like my stepbrother's girlfriend, who lets her six-year-old son play Grand Theft Auto V. People reinforcing that "lazy parent" stereotype really do not help the situation.



ominous
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27 Feb 2015, 7:25 pm

If there is one thing I have learned in my 12+ years of parenting, it is that there is always going to be someone judging what you do or don't do, no matter what you do or don't do, and they can all get f'd until they take over all my other responsibilities and live in my body. ;) Seriously no matter what you do as a parent there will be someone who thinks you're doing it wrong.

Literally there is nothing more loaded with judgment from others than parenting. We have parameters on what games my kid can play, but we talk about them openly and I don't have any hard and fast rules outside of avoiding porn, objectification of women, drug use. Kids are growing up in a different world today than they did when their parents were kids, and nobody knows what is going on behind closed doors and people who judge us can all either a) call children's services if they really believe a child is being abused or neglected or b) mind their own bleeding business.



YippySkippy
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27 Feb 2015, 7:41 pm

You guys are getting way too defensive, and reading a lot into my post that just isn't there.
I do think it's irresponsible for parents to let children play online games full of men shouting expletives at each other. And I do think that a lot of parents just don't pay enough attention to what their kids are doing online.
That's my opinion as a gamer and a parent. You can agree or disagree, but either way there's no reason to get your knickers in a twist.



ominous
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27 Feb 2015, 7:56 pm

YippySkippy wrote:
You guys are getting way too defensive, and reading a lot into my post that just isn't there.
I do think it's irresponsible for parents to let children play online games full of men shouting expletives at each other. And I do think that a lot of parents just don't pay enough attention to what their kids are doing online.
That's my opinion as a gamer and a parent. You can agree or disagree, but either way there's no reason to get your knickers in a twist.


Just because you perceive my knickers are in a twist (they aren't, I checked) because I have strong opinions on the topic, doesn't mean they are. I disagree with you, and I have explained why. My child shouts expletives when gaming, too, but doesn't in real life to anybody, ever. What a riddle that is, huh.



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27 Feb 2015, 10:10 pm

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My child shouts expletives when gaming, too, but doesn't in real life to anybody, ever.


How is that not "real life"? The shouting is real, the expletives are real, and the people being shouted at are real if your child is online.



ominous
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27 Feb 2015, 10:21 pm

'full of men shouting expletives at one another'

I was being facetious. Sorry I didn't indicate that. My child does curse when skypeing and playing with friends online, in an appropriate venue behaving appropriately. I'm sure this will only solidify your opinion that I'm a lazy and neglectful parent. I taught my child when it was appropriate and inappropriate to curse and help him to understand there are different norms in different environments. I'm terrible.



ominous
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27 Feb 2015, 10:26 pm

YippySkippy wrote:
Quote:
My child shouts expletives when gaming, too, but doesn't in real life to anybody, ever.


How is that not "real life"? The shouting is real, the expletives are real, and the people being shouted at are real if your child is online.


This is a weird discussion. First you said that children shouldn't be exposed to 'men shouting expletives' and when I suggested my child can adapt to that environment suddenly it's the adults who are playing who need to be protected from my child saying, 'Why are you being an a-hole to everybody?' to an older person. Very strange logic going on in here.

I think it's best to agree to disagree because I have no desire to expose my child's life to judgment and interrogation here in order to prove any points about how I parent. 8O



Sweetleaf
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27 Feb 2015, 11:09 pm

ominous wrote:
Misery wrote:
And I dont know where in the world laziness could fit into that at all.


Didn't ya know that people can tell how lazy and unfit someone's parents are by whether or not a person's voice sounds old enough to be playing an MA game? I have to get my kid off steam asap lest somebody assume I don't know what he's doing on there when he plays mature games.

It certainly couldn't be because I have long and involved discussions about the games my son plays, watch him play the games, sometimes play with him, and have developed a healthy relationship with him based on trust without arbitrary definitions set by the censorship industry to determine what he is and isn't mature enough to play. Nah, couldn't be that. I'm just too lazy and neglectful to bother. Probably why I home ed him, too, because I just can't be bothered to get him ready for school in the morning. ;)


That makes a hell of a lot more sense than going by the stupid rating system...also for movies and music, it should be between the parent and child what is deemed appropriate, not the government and most of the time their ratings don't even make sense. I think the game I play is supposed to be a mature game, but I haven't seen any content that extreme that would disturb younger players....of course sometimes people rage and use dirty/bad language but who isn't exposed to that? That is where a good conversation about ignoring that kind of behavior and not engaging it comes in.


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ominous
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27 Feb 2015, 11:52 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

That makes a hell of a lot more sense than going by the stupid rating system...also for movies and music, it should be between the parent and child what is deemed appropriate, not the government and most of the time their ratings don't even make sense. I think the game I play is supposed to be a mature game, but I haven't seen any content that extreme that would disturb younger players....of course sometimes people rage and use dirty/bad language but who isn't exposed to that? That is where a good conversation about ignoring that kind of behavior and not engaging it comes in.


I don't assign morality to language. I believe there are appropriate and inappropriate times to use strong language. I believe using strong language to bully or attack others is inappropriate, but no more or less inappropriate than using 'clean' language to bully or attack others. I think saying, 'Stop being an a-hole' is very different to 'die m-f, die' etc.

I also think children are individual people who ought to be parented as the individuals they are (whilst taking into consideration their individual maturity level, developmental level, relationships established in the family, and their own ideas and thoughts about various things) etc. I'm a weird parent, at least in respect to the majority, but being different doesn't = neglectful, wrong, lazy.

Everyone who gets to know my kid remarks on what a great, respectful, thoughtful person he is and what a great relationship we have. I must be doing something right.



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28 Feb 2015, 9:53 am

I don't feel it's appropriate for my child to be shouting curses at anyone. That's where we differ. I don't feel there's ever an "appropriate" time or place for that. I also don't want him participating in an expletive-rich online environment, because I don't want him to get the impression that that's a normal way to speak to people. Perhaps it's normal for your family, but not for mine. :D



Misery
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28 Feb 2015, 10:25 am

YippySkippy wrote:
I don't feel it's appropriate for my child to be shouting curses at anyone. That's where we differ. I don't feel there's ever an "appropriate" time or place for that. I also don't want him participating in an expletive-rich online environment, because I don't want him to get the impression that that's a normal way to speak to people. Perhaps it's normal for your family, but not for mine. :D



Ominous has a point, though. Or at least reminds me of a point.

It's not just games: If your kids are going to be using online ***ANYTHING***, they're going to be exposed to that. Probably often. It's an unfortunate facet of the internet and every conceivable thing that goes online, and it never, ever goes away. If they're gonna use it, they gotta be ready to deal with it, because there's no way around it. It's utterly inevitable. I'd love to be able to suggest ways of dealing with it, but... my own learning of it was me just randomly diving in, back when the Net was.... less accessible. My own parents had simply decided that I was mature enough to handle it (which I was, even at a young age, and I think the autism also affects this as even nowadays I never swear unless I'm alone), and also I was always pretty much the only one that knew how to use the computers well in the first place...

And unless you're A: completely and utterly keeping them from accessing the Net, or B: hovering over their shoulder every minute they're on it, they will run into it sooner or later in some form. Of course, dealing with it in text form is alot less... problematic. Theoretically. So that might not be an issue to you, I dont know.

As gaming goes also, typically, one-on-one games make it easy to avoid this, as you dont need to communicate with your opponent. Shut off voice chat, and there ya go! Any team based game though? There's no point in playing them online if you cannot communicate (and often, typing things out will not do at all): You *will* lose against any team that can. If you dont want voice-chat to be used by your kids, simply dont let them play that sort. Any other type? You can just mute the voice chat (doable in game options, in any game that has it) and there wont be any in-game trouble because you wont be screwing up teammates by having shut it off.

MMOs are easier to deal with, since all communication is usually text-based, and they have auto-filters that can simply remove offensive words easily. So while there is grouping-up of players, you simply dont need voice chat to deal with it, and nobody's experience gets ruined as a result of not having it. Nobody expects voice chat in those.


Beyond that though.... my own thoughts on this, not directed at you specifically but in a general sense because this has me thinking about it now, have always been that parents shouldnt worry so much about preventing kids from hearing that, but should worry more about simply teaching them not to DO it themselves even if others do. It's a lack of that that leads to all of the screaming jerks online. But there's so many OTHER people on those games that will talk, but WONT shout like idiots, or swear, and can even be pleasant. It can be useful to encourage finding that sort, and avoiding the shrieking idiots. Or at least, that's my own personal thoughts on it anyway. Others may feel free to disagree.

Also note that it's NOT just M-rated games that draw in the shrieking jerks. Sometimes people get this idea that games with lesser ratings wont have any.



ominous
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28 Feb 2015, 5:50 pm

YippySkippy wrote:
I don't feel it's appropriate for my child to be shouting curses at anyone. That's where we differ. I don't feel there's ever an "appropriate" time or place for that. I also don't want him participating in an expletive-rich online environment, because I don't want him to get the impression that that's a normal way to speak to people. Perhaps it's normal for your family, but not for mine. :D


You haven't read much of anything I have said in context, but I am glad I was able to give you a platform to feel superior to at least one person today by the bits you hand picked out of my input here. Give yourself a good pat on the back. :roll:



Last edited by ominous on 28 Feb 2015, 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ominous
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28 Feb 2015, 5:54 pm

Misery wrote:

It's not just games: If your kids are going to be using online ***ANYTHING***, they're going to be exposed to that. Probably often. It's an unfortunate facet of the internet and every conceivable thing that goes online, and it never, ever goes away. If they're gonna use it, they gotta be ready to deal with it, because there's no way around it. It's utterly inevitable.


Children are mollycoddled beyond belief nowadays and are not allowed to access quite a bit of life. It's unfortunate because when we're home with our parents who can guide us and help us when we fall is the best time to get that exposure. I'm not like most parents, though, thankfully. I think I'll unsubscribe from this thread now. :)