Will we ever change the status quo in the US?

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aghogday
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20 Dec 2014, 12:59 pm

cubedemon6073 wrote:
Aghogday and Janissy

My friend, this is very well thought out answer to what I say. So, is Janissy's response. They're well thought out and thought through. I never thought about the butterfly effect, Aghogday, and it is a wonderful response and I will have to mull over this.

I don't know what will help and I don't know what solutions there are. I know what will not help or provide solutions. Fnord gave a bumper sticker slogan that is empty and devoid of substance. In fact, I looked it up and that quote doesn't even come from Gandhi at all. Anyone who wants to help, Please, don't use bumper sticker slogans that amount to nothing because they're vague and ambigious.

Another thing I can tell you all not to do is don't call someone a whiner or imply that someone is whining. Don't say whining doesn't help. Again, this says nothing and it is an old rusted sardine can. If you want to help me and others then show me and others where our logic and rationality is off and erroneous. If you provide information, it may conflict with other info so I may ask questions. I'm not being combative or having a negative attitude.

Speaking of attitude, telling people to be positive, yourself and confident says nothing. Bumper sticker slogans say nothing and do not help. Rationality and Logic does at least with me. If my thinking is off and I understand how and why, I will alter that. Janissy and Aghogday, provided me with information that's already getting me to see things another way.


Thank you, cubedemon6073.

Although many people have misunderstood my intentions in the past, as I too have had much difficulty in properly explaining MY THOUGHTS by way of effective reciprocal social communication, my goal by being here now is to help others through the hardships of Autism and the strengths of it too, as well as the DIVERSITY OF IT TOO that I know all too well, now, at 54. :)

There are no cookie cutter solutions, only opinions that have worked for UNIQUE individuals, including me.


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GoonSquad
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20 Dec 2014, 1:54 pm

@cubedemon6073

Me and Fnord agree of VERY FEW things, but he is right in that bitching alone does not help.

I used to be one of those people. I would complain about all the injustice in the world and how broken things were and things DID change FOR THE WORSE!

People on the right organized, drove the Republican party farther to the right took over congress and made things MUCH WORSE by cutting funding to SNAP and other essential programs.

Meanwhile the Occupy Movement got together and had a bitch-fest in New York that accomplished EXACTLY NOTHING. This happened mostly because they refused to organize and set an effective agenda of reform.

This is what proved to me the bitching does not help and it's one of the things that drove me to action.

As I mentioned in my previous posts, effective solutions to social problems take local action and FEDERAL FUNDING. Bitching won't get transitional housing or SNAP funded, that takes VOTES IN CONGRESS!

The Republicans gained ground in the house of reps and TOOK THE SENATE because people on the left couldn't even be bothered to vote!! !

We are starving social programs at the worst time possible because nobody on the left can be bothered to get off their asses and do ANYTHING, it seems.

Bitching won't get the progressive reforms we need--a TeaParty like movement on the left will. BUT THAT WILL TAKE ACTION AND EFFORT!! ! bitching won't cut it. If all we do is b***h, the best we can hope for in the next election in another President Clinton. The last President Clinton was a disaster for American's social welfare system. I doubt another one will be any better.

This is why bitching isn't enough. People on the left need to VOTE IN EVERY ELECTION at the very least. And preferably, we need to ORGANIZE and ACT. We need to form a new progressive movement to counteract the TeaParty and bring the Democrats back to the left.

If we don't do this, at lot of people will b***h themselves to death as they freeze and starve in the streets.

I'm sorry if this sounds angry. But I am VERY angry and frustrated with all the apathy on the left these days...

It may be a bumper sticker slogan, but the fact remains, evil does triumph when good men do nothing. And bitching alone is as good as doing nothing.


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20 Dec 2014, 2:15 pm

My thoughts on this are heavily influenced by Marshall Mcluhan. I wonder if he was right and the age of mass communication brings all of us closer together; almost to close. That America in general is going back to a more Tribal mentality and that's why our politics are so polarized or why we seem to have a warped sense of Nationalism.

Our awful presidents like Bush feed into this with divisive rhetoric saying "You're with us or you're with the Enemy. There is no inbetween.".

The individualist thinker seeking their own identity has been fading away. I think most Americans find their sense of identity in external things now like their preferred sports team, political party, or their particular brand of Smart Phone.



Sweetleaf
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20 Dec 2014, 2:59 pm

GoonSquad wrote:

Help people figure out how to function in society. Don't just give them a pat on the shoulder and a box of stale macaroni.
:roll:


I think society needs to be adjusted so that more people are able to better function in it.


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20 Dec 2014, 3:01 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
GoonSquad wrote:
Help people figure out how to function in society. Don't just give them a pat on the shoulder and a box of stale macaroni.
I think society needs to be adjusted so that more people are able to better function in it.
Then get out there and make the adjustments.


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Sweetleaf
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20 Dec 2014, 3:11 pm

MaxE wrote:
The "status quo" in the US won't change any time soon for two reasons:

1.) Although most people can find something to complain about, few are unhappy enough to do anything, especially if that might impact their own lives in a negative way.
2.) As for those who would act, there is broad disagreement as to what sort of change they want.

I would have to put myself in the first category.

To understand my point, consider Egypt about 3 years ago. Most Egyptians were unhappy enough to take to the streets and bring about change (this may have been facilitated by Egypt's unique geography). The US is nowhere near a situation like that. I would not welcome our being in such a situation because it would imply some really bad stuff had happened. Who (apart from some "radicals") really wants that?

If you want to make a difference, act individually in a positive way. Give money to local organizations that you know help people directly (the Salvation Army is amazing, even an atheist should feel good about supporting them). If you have no money, then volunteer to help in some way. Helping to care for someone who can't care for their self, so their family members can get out to attend to business, will be greatly appreciated. You could probably even find such an opportunity within your own family. Or you could just sit at home and fret over the fact that in the US people aren't entitled to such help from the Government.


Or you can apply for the government help you are entitled to that is available, as well as volunteer your time or just do things to help others in general if there's not an organized volunteer opportunity available you could do. People in the U.S are actually entitled to government help when financially struggling or disabled in such a way they cannot hold a job.

Also no social changes taking place in this country...I am quite certain I signed that petition to legalize marijuana in my state a while back and now other states have also legalized it, and that is bound to lead to changes in drug policies in general. Now granted many people think it should remain illegal, or that its not an important change...but it obviously reflects a change in attitude towards cannabis. Point is though that is an example of voting locally and signing petitions to get things voted on apparently can make a difference probably more so than voting on a presidential canidate or federal politicians more useful to concern yourself with local/state issues first.

Also though if one has no money chances are they are going to need to address basic needs before thinking about volunteering anywhere....you wont have energy to do much volunteer work if you've got nothing to eat, they certainly don't want people who haven't showered in days showing up there are expectations even for volunteer work.


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20 Dec 2014, 3:13 pm

@Fnord^
I think adjusting society, from our vantage point is something best accomplished through one's mindset. Case in point, I'm an open source zealot and most likely in a month or two I'll be working for the Microsoft empire. Some might contend this equates to being a turncoat towards the ideals I support but in reality it might teach me volumes I can contribute in the future towards all manner of different useful causes. On the spectrum we tend to live in our heads, and all the action you're championing starts with the brain stem anyway. There is no action independent of suggestion; changing society is really about exemplifying a state of mind others realize might help them.


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20 Dec 2014, 3:17 pm

Changing society is more about actively making needed changes and less about complaining that changes need to be made.

8)


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cberg
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20 Dec 2014, 3:47 pm

I don't understand how see how suggesting that others take action in reforming society constitutes anything other than complaining. We all have our own viewpoints, not everyone is wired for socioeconomic climbing as much as Fnord. Even that username connotes subversion, antagonism and enforcement of hierarchy. Consensus on such matters only happens when people abandon preconceptions of being the only ones making a contribution.

Everyone has complaints. Mine are about warring egos in place of cooperation.


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20 Dec 2014, 5:08 pm

^^^ Everyone could at least stay informed on important issues AND VOTE.

Most people DID NOT VOTE in the last election and that will have some very important consequences in the near future.

In my state, about 200,000 people are likely to lose their health coverage when the new Republican governor takes office...

My guess is most of those people couldn't be bothered to vote. They're gonna regret it soon.


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cubedemon6073
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20 Dec 2014, 5:52 pm

GoonSquad wrote:
@cubedemon6073

Me and Fnord agree of VERY FEW things, but he is right in that bitching alone does not help.

I used to be one of those people. I would complain about all the injustice in the world and how broken things were and things DID change FOR THE WORSE!

People on the right organized, drove the Republican party farther to the right took over congress and made things MUCH WORSE by cutting funding to SNAP and other essential programs.

Meanwhile the Occupy Movement got together and had a bitch-fest in New York that accomplished EXACTLY NOTHING. This happened mostly because they refused to organize and set an effective agenda of reform.

This is what proved to me the bitching does not help and it's one of the things that drove me to action.

As I mentioned in my previous posts, effective solutions to social problems take local action and FEDERAL FUNDING. Bitching won't get transitional housing or SNAP funded, that takes VOTES IN CONGRESS!

The Republicans gained ground in the house of reps and TOOK THE SENATE because people on the left couldn't even be bothered to vote!! !

We are starving social programs at the worst time possible because nobody on the left can be bothered to get off their asses and do ANYTHING, it seems.

Bitching won't get the progressive reforms we need--a TeaParty like movement on the left will. BUT THAT WILL TAKE ACTION AND EFFORT!! ! bitching won't cut it. If all we do is b***h, the best we can hope for in the next election in another President Clinton. The last President Clinton was a disaster for American's social welfare system. I doubt another one will be any better.

This is why bitching isn't enough. People on the left need to VOTE IN EVERY ELECTION at the very least. And preferably, we need to ORGANIZE and ACT. We need to form a new progressive movement to counteract the TeaParty and bring the Democrats back to the left.

If we don't do this, at lot of people will b***h themselves to death as they freeze and starve in the streets.

I'm sorry if this sounds angry. But I am VERY angry and frustrated with all the apathy on the left these days...

It may be a bumper sticker slogan, but the fact remains, evil does triumph when good men do nothing. And bitching alone is as good as doing nothing.


I understand what you're saying GoonSquad. With regard to Occupy, with some exceptions like Occupy Sandy it is this way. It was a gigantic b***h fest. I guess bitching in the end does accomplish nothing except to get some angst out. I get what Fnord is saying with his slogans of the past.

I guess I do have to see it in terms of The Butterfly Effect like AHogday said. Based upon the preponderance of the evidence like OWS and two people with opposite views saying the same thing and agreeing I guess it is time to for me to get down and do what I can.

Out of curiosity, what do you do now Goodsquad? What do you recommend for a guy who created a Tic Tac Toe game with an AI player do? Do you have any recommendations for me or websites I can go to volunteer my time and talent?



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20 Dec 2014, 7:13 pm

cberg wrote:
I don't understand how see how suggesting that others take action in reforming society constitutes anything other than complaining.
At least my "complaining" is not hypocritical. While everyone posting in this thread seems to want something done, I and a few others are actually doing it.

It's an example of hypocrisy to sit back and say "We need to do something" without ever having to do it.

That is the gist of my "complaining".

:roll:

BTW: My wife and I just delivered another three sacks of groceries to a needy family today.

What have YOU been doing?


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GoonSquad
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20 Dec 2014, 9:17 pm

cubedemon6073 wrote:
I understand what you're saying GoonSquad. With regard to Occupy, with some exceptions like Occupy Sandy it is this way. It was a gigantic b***h fest. I guess bitching in the end does accomplish nothing except to get some angst out. I get what Fnord is saying with his slogans of the past.

I guess I do have to see it in terms of The Butterfly Effect like AHogday said. Based upon the preponderance of the evidence like OWS and two people with opposite views saying the same thing and agreeing I guess it is time to for me to get down and do what I can.

Out of curiosity, what do you do now Goodsquad? What do you recommend for a guy who created a Tic Tac Toe game with an AI player do? Do you have any recommendations for me or websites I can go to volunteer my time and talent?

I cannot tell you specifically what to do... I got involved with a nonprofit that works with poor and homeless clients because that's what I' m interested in--I think poverty is the root of all social problems. They have a website where anybody can sign-up to volunteer for their food distribution program. So, I started with that. I started interning with their transitional housing program because I'm studying Social Work at University. When I graduate, I hope I can start working there while I do grad-school.

I'd say just look at your community, find a problem that moves you and then look for a related nonprofit to volunteer with. You could try searching your city at www.volunteermatch.org to see what you might want to do.

However, like I posted above, I think the most important thing anyone can do is take a lesson from the TeaParty and get politically active. Register to vote and then vote in every election. Encourage your friends and family to vote. Contact the local branch of the least odious political party (for you) and get involved with it.

In my state the TeaParty has completely taken over in the space of 4 years thanks to democratic apathy and their own zeal. They have proven that the system will work if you get enough people together and make it work.


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20 Dec 2014, 10:03 pm

cberg wrote:
I don't understand how see how suggesting that others take action in reforming society constitutes anything other than complaining.

We, not the government, ARE society and it's ours to make or break.

Quote:
We all have our own viewpoints, not everyone is wired for socioeconomic climbing as much as Fnord.

Fnord knows what its like to be poor and took positive steps to improve his own lot and is now helping others. This isn't about socio-economic climbing.

Quote:
Even that username connotes subversion, antagonism and enforcement of hierarchy.

I bet you don't like my username or avatar, either. :P

Quote:
Consensus on such matters only happens when people abandon preconceptions of being the only ones making a contribution. Everyone has complaints. Mine are about warring egos in place of cooperation.

You're either part of the solution or you're not. If you not then that's fine but don't pretend to be doing something to help society merely by voting democrat. Neither the democrats or republicans care about you or I.


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20 Dec 2014, 10:20 pm

Raptor wrote:
cberg wrote:
Consensus on such matters only happens when people abandon preconceptions of being the only ones making a contribution. Everyone has complaints. Mine are about warring egos in place of cooperation.

You're either part of the solution or you're not. If you not then that's fine but you would be doing something to help society merely by voting democrat. Neither do the republicans care about you or I. As a matter of fact, they would sell us both to cannibals if they thought they could make a dollar on the deal.


Edited for clarity and truthiness.

:P


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20 Dec 2014, 10:48 pm

Fnord wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
GoonSquad wrote:
Help people figure out how to function in society. Don't just give them a pat on the shoulder and a box of stale macaroni.
I think society needs to be adjusted so that more people are able to better function in it.
Then get out there and make the adjustments.


I do what I can, though it would be ridiculous for me to think I alone can make all those adusjstments to society. But I vote on the issues, sign petitions to have various issues adressed/voted upon do my best to stay informed on the issues and express opinions on them and try and raise awareness(though not the best at that as I don't know that many people and its not like I got a very good way to get stuff out to a ton of people) I think discussion of problems can also help promote change as discussion can lead to action. But I don't just sit around hoping things change...


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