New poll finds healthcare reform will likely be a disasterr

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John_Browning
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17 Sep 2009, 7:11 pm

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/series28.aspx
The article is devided into 2 links. The people that did this poll had the most accurate predictions for the 2004 and 2008 elections.


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Dilbert
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17 Sep 2009, 7:39 pm

If a large number of people (conservatives/republicans) and a large number of powerful companies (HMOs, insurance) disagree with the healthcare reform, then they'll find a way to make the reform fail ragardless of how good the reform appears on paper. Even if the reform is conceptualized as the greatest healthcare system in the World, and we can afford it easily, and and and, it will still fail if so many people are against it.

I don't get it. Obama and his people are politically experienced. They must know this simple fact? Are they hoping to push the reform through and then convince everyone how awesome our healthcare is on the flip side? It would take a decade to reorganize everything. Things will fall to pieces long before.

I've seen this again and again in corporate America. If you've got a champion supporting a great new project, and they win over half the management, but the project is opposed to by the other half of the management and half the workers, that half will somehow find a way to sink the project.

Formula to success is to win the support of almost all key players, and the majority of the rest, before the work starts.

So yeah it will be half baked disaster, due to no one's fault in particular, certainly not Obama's or his people. But they've started this so they will be blamed for failure.



skafather84
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17 Sep 2009, 8:31 pm

On July 31, 2009, an editorial at IBD, criticizing Barack Obama's healthcare plans, claimed that Stephen Hawking "wouldn't have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless." As Hawking was born and has always lived in the United Kingdom, and receives his medical care from the British National Health Service, the editorial was widely criticized for its inaccuracy. The online version of the editorial was later corrected to remove the argument. Hawking responded to the editorial by saying: "I wouldn't be here today if it were not for the NHS... I have received a large amount of high-quality treatment without which I would not have survived."
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That being said, I wouldn't put too much faith into any kind of analysis that comes out of that editorial section.


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ruveyn
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17 Sep 2009, 8:33 pm

skafather84 wrote:
On July 31, 2009, an editorial at IBD, criticizing Barack Obama's healthcare plans, claimed that Stephen Hawking "wouldn't have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless." As Hawking was born and has always lived in the United Kingdom, and receives his medical care from the British National Health Service, the editorial was widely criticized for its inaccuracy. The online version of the editorial was later corrected to remove the argument. Hawking responded to the editorial by saying: "I wouldn't be here today if it were not for the NHS... I have received a large amount of high-quality treatment without which I would not have survived."
--------------------------------------

That being said, I wouldn't put too much faith into any kind of analysis that comes out of that editorial section.


A man of Hawking's stature and fame would be kept alive as a National Treasure under any system.

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Apple_in_my_Eye
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17 Sep 2009, 9:35 pm

http://mediamatters.org/research/200909170025

Quote:
Fox runs wild with "not scientific" IBD poll
September 17, 2009 2:49 pm ET — 13 Comments

Several Fox News media figures highlighted a recent Investor's Business Daily/TIPP poll which found that "[t]wo of every three practicing physicians oppose the medical overhaul plan under consideration in Washington, and hundreds of thousands would think about shutting down their practices or retiring early if it were adopted." However, according to statistician Nate Silver, the poll is "simply not credible," and Fox News itself acknowledged that the poll is "not scientific."

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Silver, Fox News undermine IBD/TIPP poll's credibility

Nate Silver: Poll is "simply not credible." In a September 16 post to his blog FiveThirtyEight.com, Silver listed five reasons why the IBD poll should be "completely ignore[d]":

1. The survey was conducted by mail, which is unusual. The only other mail-based poll that I'm aware of is that conducted by the Columbus Dispatch, which was associated with an average error of about 7 percentage points -- the highest of any pollster that we tested.

2. At least one of the questions is blatantly biased: "Do you believe the government can cover 47 million more people and it will cost less money and th quality of care will be better?". Holy run-on-sentence, Batman? A pollster who asks a question like this one is not intending to be objective.

3. As we learned during the Presidntial campaign -- when, among other things, they had John McCain winning the youth vote 74-22 -- the IBD/TIPP polling operation has literally no idea what they're doing. I mean, literally none. For example, I don't trust IBD/TIPP to have competently selected anything resembling a random panel, which is harder to do than you'd think.

4. They say, somewhat ambiguously: "Responses are still coming in." This is also highly unorthodox. Professional pollsters generally do not report results before the survey period is compete.

5. There is virtually no disclosure about methodology. For example, IBD doesn't bother to define the term "practicing physician", which could mean almost anything. Nor do they explain how their randomization procedure worked, provide the entire question battery, or anything like that.

ARTICLE CONTINUES


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skafather84
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17 Sep 2009, 9:42 pm

Apple_in_my_Eye wrote:
http://mediamatters.org/research/200909170025

Quote:
Fox News itself acknowledged that the poll is "not scientific."



The problem with that is that Fox News wears this as a badge of honor to its uneducated, anti-intellectual audience.


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techstepgenr8tion
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17 Sep 2009, 10:00 pm

Dilbert wrote:
If a large number of people (conservatives/republicans) and a large number of powerful companies (HMOs, insurance) disagree with the healthcare reform, then they'll find a way to make the reform fail ragardless of how good the reform appears on paper.


Don't forget the fifty DINOs in the House of Representatives as well - its not just from one side of the isle.



Apple_in_my_Eye
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17 Sep 2009, 10:18 pm

skafather84 wrote:
Apple_in_my_Eye wrote:
http://mediamatters.org/research/200909170025

Quote:
Fox runs wild with "not scientific" IBD pollFox News itself acknowledged that the poll is "not scientific."


The problem with that is that Fox News wears this as a badge of honor to its uneducated, anti-intellectual audience.


Well you know, that book larnin' 'll rot yer brain.

It's always good to keep people suspicious of authoritative sources of information so that you can claim to be the only real one. ie Fox = "fair & balanced" unlike the rest of the MSM which is ultra-commie left-wing Marxists, lol


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ruveyn
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18 Sep 2009, 3:34 am

skafather84 wrote:
Apple_in_my_Eye wrote:
http://mediamatters.org/research/200909170025

Quote:
Fox News itself acknowledged that the poll is "not scientific."



The problem with that is that Fox News wears this as a badge of honor to its uneducated, anti-intellectual audience.


Am am both educated and an intellectual. I enjoy Fox News as entertainment.

ruveyn



zer0netgain
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18 Sep 2009, 6:47 am

Dilbert wrote:
I don't get it. Obama and his people are politically experienced. They must know this simple fact? Are they hoping to push the reform through and then convince everyone how awesome our healthcare is on the flip side? It would take a decade to reorganize everything. Things will fall to pieces long before.

I've seen this again and again in corporate America. If you've got a champion supporting a great new project, and they win over half the management, but the project is opposed to by the other half of the management and half the workers, that half will somehow find a way to sink the project.


This is why we need real political reform.

To fix the health care system, it could be done in a short time if you fixed key issues that really cause the problems, but powerful players in those areas will not allow that to happen. A nebulous and comprehensive idea (like Obamacare) would be better implements a stage at a time, but with elections, the whole project would likely get scrapped after the next election, so they try to push through a flawed and untested idea in a short time hoping it works out when it finally happens.



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18 Sep 2009, 10:14 am

The damned insurance companies have already flooded television with their anti-American lying advertisements.