Why is human life more important than animal life?

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Asp-Z
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21 Apr 2010, 12:41 pm

you_are_what_you_is wrote:
I disagree with this: Humans are the most selfish, greedy and destructive creatures. I also disagree with the implicit premise that being selfish, greedy and destructive makes you less important than something that isn't.

Humans are not necessarily more important than sentient non-human animals. There are some traits we have that distinguish us from most other animals, such as the fact that we know we're alive and we want to avoid dying. That's one reason why, most of the time, killing an average human is worse than killing a non-human animal. Of course, not all humans possess this knowledge or desire, and accordingly, I would say that killing them isn't as bad (for example, it's as bad, if not worse, to murder an adult chimp as it is to murder a very young human infant). Simply being a member of the species homo sapiens does not entitle you to any special consideration, in my view.


Apart from the part in bold, I agree with you.

However, other animals can and do avoid being killed, for example lizards that camouflage themselves so predators can't see them.



you_are_what_you_is
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21 Apr 2010, 2:18 pm

Sand wrote:
Somehow I feel more confident about non-sentience in muscle tissue than in a mobile living creature.


So do I. What's your point?



Last edited by you_are_what_you_is on 21 Apr 2010, 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

CaroleTucson
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21 Apr 2010, 2:23 pm

PLA wrote:
"Animals don't make war" is simply not true.


Yes it is true, except in very unusual cases.

Show me another species who routinely conscripts large numbers of individuals from their society, systematically stockpiles weapons, and intentionally invades the territory of other groups for the purpose of annihilating them, for no other reason than some vague political principle.



you_are_what_you_is
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21 Apr 2010, 2:24 pm

Asp-Z wrote:
you_are_what_you_is wrote:
I disagree with this: Humans are the most selfish, greedy and destructive creatures. I also disagree with the implicit premise that being selfish, greedy and destructive makes you less important than something that isn't.

Humans are not necessarily more important than sentient non-human animals. There are some traits we have that distinguish us from most other animals, such as the fact that we know we're alive and we want to avoid dying. That's one reason why, most of the time, killing an average human is worse than killing a non-human animal. Of course, not all humans possess this knowledge or desire, and accordingly, I would say that killing them isn't as bad (for example, it's as bad, if not worse, to murder an adult chimp as it is to murder a very young human infant). Simply being a member of the species homo sapiens does not entitle you to any special consideration, in my view.


Apart from the part in bold, I agree with you.

However, other animals can and do avoid being killed, for example lizards that camouflage themselves so predators can't see them.


I think you may have misunderstood me. ...the fact that we know we're alive and we want to avoid dying. Obviously, all animals have defence mechanisms that allow them to avoid dying, but these are genetic. It's an open question which animals are self-aware and consciously understand the concept of death.



you_are_what_you_is
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21 Apr 2010, 2:27 pm

CaroleTucson wrote:
Show me another species who routinely conscripts large numbers of individuals from their society, systematically stockpiles weapons, and intentionally invades the territory of other groups for the purpose of annihilating them, for no other reason than some vague political principle.


Show me another species that has the ability to do any of those things.

Language, intellect, civilization, industry, etc, are traits that are not always put to good use. That doesn't mean other animals are less violent than humans. Of course, whether or not the violence in other species counts as 'war' is debatable, but their lives are certainly no more peaceful than ours.



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21 Apr 2010, 2:28 pm

I think one of the reasons people are more important than animals is that people are made in the image of God and animals are not. Animals have a soul, which makes it possible for them to relate to people and other animals; but people have both a soul and spirit, which makes it possible for them to relate not only to other people and animals but also to God.


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21 Apr 2010, 3:20 pm

It just makes sense; we're wired to protect ourselves.


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ruveyn
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21 Apr 2010, 11:31 pm

CaroleTucson wrote:
PLA wrote:
"Animals don't make war" is simply not true.


Yes it is true, except in very unusual cases.

Show me another species who routinely conscripts large numbers of individuals from their society, systematically stockpiles weapons, and intentionally invades the territory of other groups for the purpose of annihilating them, for no other reason than some vague political principle.


Conscript is a legal concept. Fighting, particularly male coalitional killing is a fact among chimpanzees. They are nasty critters who make organized war and who commit chimpicide. Unfortunately we humans share many of the less admirable characteristics of the chimpanzee.

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phil777
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21 Apr 2010, 11:48 pm

It's called being ethnocentric. <.< See what i did there?

Also i disagree with the autism explanation, how the hell do you explain that environnementalists (at least some) genuinely care about nature then? =/

edit : forgot an s



astaut
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22 Apr 2010, 1:57 am

PunkyKat wrote:
A concept I will never understand. I remember watching animals on TV be killed because they eventualy lost it and attacked their abusive owners and the police would kill it and I would ask why they had to do that and I was told "a human life is more important than an animals". When I tell how I think animal testing and vivesection is wrong in any form I am told it is okay because it is helping people and that human life is more important. Why? Humans are the most selfish, greedy and destructive creatures. I love my bearded dragon more than anything and would defend her to the death if I had too. I would save her before I was to save a person, even a family member. Why are humans oh so important? When I asked that I usualy got a religious answer about humans were created in God's image and they have "dominion" over the animals. I never bought that and it just adds another reason to the list of why I dislike most Christians.

My mum used to say my autism is the reason I felt this way.


I am a Christian, but I'm also a huge animal person. Logically I've never been able to reason why people's lives are worth more than animals, unless we are looking at who contributes more to society...and if we are looking at it from that point, we would save the drug dog working for the police before we saved the homeless person on the street contributing to the drug problem. And we know most people don't think of it that way.

There are more and more studies being done presently/lately on consciousness in animals and in animal intelligence, and it's making humans rethink how we treat animals. With studies like these, it also makes us think should be valuing their life more highly than we do now. But the fact is, at least for me anyway, the majority will think of humans as more valuable than animals. For example...I had a biology lab class today. We looked at starfish embryos under a microscope. If we had to reach in a tank and kill a starfish to put under our microscope I wouldn't have participated, luckily we had (probably very old) prepared slides. Now I'm willing to bet my life anyone in there would have pitched a fit if we had human embryos in those slides...even if we think we value starfish as highly as humans, I just can't accept that I would react the same way to the death of a starfish as I would to the death of a person. I probably wouldn't even react the same to the death of a cat the same as the death of a horse, they're different animals and I'm more attached to one than the other. Some people related more to people, some have a real connection with animals.

I think I just rambled there, it's 2am and I don't have the energy to see what all I just said :coffee:



PLA
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22 Apr 2010, 2:41 am

CaroleTucson wrote:
PLA wrote:
"Animals don't make war" is simply not true.


Yes it is true, except in very unusual cases.

Show me another species who routinely conscripts large numbers of individuals from their society, systematically stockpiles weapons, and intentionally invades the territory of other groups for the purpose of annihilating them, for no other reason than some vague political principle.


Hey, bada bing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ant#Cooper ... ompetition

The "vague political principle" in humans is often, though not always, "more for me".


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23 Apr 2010, 9:05 am

JetLag wrote:
I think one of the reasons people are more important than animals is that people are made in the image of God and animals are not. .


That is the kind of mindset that almost turned me into an athiest.



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23 Apr 2010, 2:57 pm

All ethics is fundamentally arbitrary. Since we are humans, we care about human life more than animals. To me that's just the way it is. You can't really change such a fundamental assumption as that.

Even if some animals are sentient, it's another thing to assume that they have a system of ethics like ours. It seems natural to me that a sentient alien predator, who can survive only by preying on living things, would not value life as much as we do. If they are solitary that also contributes--then their loss won't affect other members of their species.



astaut
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23 Apr 2010, 11:24 pm

PunkyKat wrote:
JetLag wrote:
I think one of the reasons people are more important than animals is that people are made in the image of God and animals are not. .


That is the kind of mindset that almost turned me into an athiest.


I've never really given a second thought to the fact that it says we were created in God's image (in regards to animals). I don't think it really matters that we designate who is "more important" as long as we treat animals properly. I think animals are important, but I don't want to decide who is more important because ultimately it wouldn't solve anything. Many people refer to the verse about Adam ruling over the animals, but my personal interpretation of that is that we should care for animals...not rule over them as in dominate them. We should protect and care for them, and they are usually more than willing to work for us in return. I hope you never let other people's mindsets determine your beliefs.

"For every beast of the forest is mine...I know the birds of the hills, and all that moves in the field is mine." Psalms 50:10-11

"Whoever is righteous has regard for the life of his beast, but the mercy of the wicked is cruel." Proverbs 12:10

"Who knoweth the spirit of the man goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?"
Ecclesiastes 3:21



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24 Apr 2010, 11:16 pm

Because humans are full of thr own importence and if we didn't think ourselves more important than animals we'd be eating treating each other like s**t. Wait, we already do that. :) But still humans are arrogant etc etc etc. I wish we could all just get along and live in peace but that'll never happen I'm sorry to say.



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25 Apr 2010, 7:18 am

astaut wrote:
PunkyKat wrote:
JetLag wrote:
I think one of the reasons people are more important than animals is that people are made in the image of God and animals are not. .


That is the kind of mindset that almost turned me into an athiest.


. I hope you never let other people's mindsets determine your beliefs.



I said it almost turned me into an athiest. I believe that the whole "dominion" thing is about protecting and taking care of the animals and enviroment as well. Rats and mice were made for snuggling and cuddling, not for expirmenting on in the name of science. Rats can be very sweet and friendly. The only reason they are used in expirments is because they are cheap and breed quickly. Saint Francis of Acissi is my patron saint.