Racism has two irrational elements: both hatred and love

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iamnotaparakeet
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20 Aug 2010, 4:14 pm

Racism is not just irrational hatred of people based upon superficiality and genealogy, but it also is equally irrational love of people based upon the very same criteria as the hatred is. When people decide in generalized terms, "I hate these people because they are from here or look like this", they are scorned and mocked and ridiculed as a fool and rightfully so. However, when people go with the opposite emotion of love, they are not so regarded even though they are also performing the same fallacious reasoning. So, is it acceptable to blindly love somebody based upon criteria they cannot alter? Is it acceptable to blindly hate someone based upon criteria they cannot alter?



Sand
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20 Aug 2010, 6:50 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Racism is not just irrational hatred of people based upon superficiality and genealogy, but it also is equally irrational love of people based upon the very same criteria as the hatred is. When people decide in generalized terms, "I hate these people because they are from here or look like this", they are scorned and mocked and ridiculed as a fool and rightfully so. However, when people go with the opposite emotion of love, they are not so regarded even though they are also performing the same fallacious reasoning. So, is it acceptable to blindly love somebody based upon criteria they cannot alter? Is it acceptable to blindly hate someone based upon criteria they cannot alter?


Racism is based on judging a whole diverse group of people on highly over simplistic tags such as skin color or some body characteristic which is totally invalid. It is worse than being merely incorrect, it is used as a motivation for persecution and that is unacceptable.



iamnotaparakeet
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20 Aug 2010, 6:52 pm

Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Racism is not just irrational hatred of people based upon superficiality and genealogy, but it also is equally irrational love of people based upon the very same criteria as the hatred is. When people decide in generalized terms, "I hate these people because they are from here or look like this", they are scorned and mocked and ridiculed as a fool and rightfully so. However, when people go with the opposite emotion of love, they are not so regarded even though they are also performing the same fallacious reasoning. So, is it acceptable to blindly love somebody based upon criteria they cannot alter? Is it acceptable to blindly hate someone based upon criteria they cannot alter?


Racism is based on judging a whole diverse group of people on highly over simplistic tags such as skin color or some body characteristic which is totally invalid. It is worse than being merely incorrect, it is used as a motivation for persecution and that is unacceptable.


It is more than a motivation for persecution, it is also a motivation for disproportionate preferential treatment. Both are wrong.



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20 Aug 2010, 7:26 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Racism is not just irrational hatred of people based upon superficiality and genealogy, but it also is equally irrational love of people based upon the very same criteria as the hatred is. When people decide in generalized terms, "I hate these people because they are from here or look like this", they are scorned and mocked and ridiculed as a fool and rightfully so. However, when people go with the opposite emotion of love, they are not so regarded even though they are also performing the same fallacious reasoning. So, is it acceptable to blindly love somebody based upon criteria they cannot alter? Is it acceptable to blindly hate someone based upon criteria they cannot alter?

I suppose I am racist.


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Sand
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20 Aug 2010, 7:32 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Racism is not just irrational hatred of people based upon superficiality and genealogy, but it also is equally irrational love of people based upon the very same criteria as the hatred is. When people decide in generalized terms, "I hate these people because they are from here or look like this", they are scorned and mocked and ridiculed as a fool and rightfully so. However, when people go with the opposite emotion of love, they are not so regarded even though they are also performing the same fallacious reasoning. So, is it acceptable to blindly love somebody based upon criteria they cannot alter? Is it acceptable to blindly hate someone based upon criteria they cannot alter?


Racism is based on judging a whole diverse group of people on highly over simplistic tags such as skin color or some body characteristic which is totally invalid. It is worse than being merely incorrect, it is used as a motivation for persecution and that is unacceptable.


It is more than a motivation for persecution, it is also a motivation for disproportionate preferential treatment. Both are wrong.


If a group has been socially mistreated because of their skin color or other ethnic or body characteristic a decent society is responsible for compensating for that mistreatment to make a level playing field.



iamnotaparakeet
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20 Aug 2010, 7:34 pm

Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Racism is not just irrational hatred of people based upon superficiality and genealogy, but it also is equally irrational love of people based upon the very same criteria as the hatred is. When people decide in generalized terms, "I hate these people because they are from here or look like this", they are scorned and mocked and ridiculed as a fool and rightfully so. However, when people go with the opposite emotion of love, they are not so regarded even though they are also performing the same fallacious reasoning. So, is it acceptable to blindly love somebody based upon criteria they cannot alter? Is it acceptable to blindly hate someone based upon criteria they cannot alter?


Racism is based on judging a whole diverse group of people on highly over simplistic tags such as skin color or some body characteristic which is totally invalid. It is worse than being merely incorrect, it is used as a motivation for persecution and that is unacceptable.


It is more than a motivation for persecution, it is also a motivation for disproportionate preferential treatment. Both are wrong.


If a group has been socially mistreated because of their skin color or other ethnic or body characteristic a decent society is responsible for compensating for that mistreatment to make a level playing field.


Sounds nice, but what is the actual effect in practice when the children are punished for the crimes of their fathers?



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20 Aug 2010, 7:36 pm

greenblue wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Racism is not just irrational hatred of people based upon superficiality and genealogy, but it also is equally irrational love of people based upon the very same criteria as the hatred is. When people decide in generalized terms, "I hate these people because they are from here or look like this", they are scorned and mocked and ridiculed as a fool and rightfully so. However, when people go with the opposite emotion of love, they are not so regarded even though they are also performing the same fallacious reasoning. So, is it acceptable to blindly love somebody based upon criteria they cannot alter? Is it acceptable to blindly hate someone based upon criteria they cannot alter?

I suppose I am racist.
How?



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20 Aug 2010, 7:47 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
greenblue wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Racism is not just irrational hatred of people based upon superficiality and genealogy, but it also is equally irrational love of people based upon the very same criteria as the hatred is. When people decide in generalized terms, "I hate these people because they are from here or look like this", they are scorned and mocked and ridiculed as a fool and rightfully so. However, when people go with the opposite emotion of love, they are not so regarded even though they are also performing the same fallacious reasoning. So, is it acceptable to blindly love somebody based upon criteria they cannot alter? Is it acceptable to blindly hate someone based upon criteria they cannot alter?

I suppose I am racist.
How?

Because I like asian women.


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20 Aug 2010, 7:48 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Racism is not just irrational hatred of people based upon superficiality and genealogy, but it also is equally irrational love of people based upon the very same criteria as the hatred is. When people decide in generalized terms, "I hate these people because they are from here or look like this", they are scorned and mocked and ridiculed as a fool and rightfully so. However, when people go with the opposite emotion of love, they are not so regarded even though they are also performing the same fallacious reasoning. So, is it acceptable to blindly love somebody based upon criteria they cannot alter? Is it acceptable to blindly hate someone based upon criteria they cannot alter?


Racism is based on judging a whole diverse group of people on highly over simplistic tags such as skin color or some body characteristic which is totally invalid. It is worse than being merely incorrect, it is used as a motivation for persecution and that is unacceptable.


It is more than a motivation for persecution, it is also a motivation for disproportionate preferential treatment. Both are wrong.


If a group has been socially mistreated because of their skin color or other ethnic or body characteristic a decent society is responsible for compensating for that mistreatment to make a level playing field.


Sounds nice, but what is the actual effect in practice when the children are punished for the crimes of their fathers?


What children, what punishment?



iamnotaparakeet
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20 Aug 2010, 7:56 pm

Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Racism is not just irrational hatred of people based upon superficiality and genealogy, but it also is equally irrational love of people based upon the very same criteria as the hatred is. When people decide in generalized terms, "I hate these people because they are from here or look like this", they are scorned and mocked and ridiculed as a fool and rightfully so. However, when people go with the opposite emotion of love, they are not so regarded even though they are also performing the same fallacious reasoning. So, is it acceptable to blindly love somebody based upon criteria they cannot alter? Is it acceptable to blindly hate someone based upon criteria they cannot alter?


Racism is based on judging a whole diverse group of people on highly over simplistic tags such as skin color or some body characteristic which is totally invalid. It is worse than being merely incorrect, it is used as a motivation for persecution and that is unacceptable.


It is more than a motivation for persecution, it is also a motivation for disproportionate preferential treatment. Both are wrong.


If a group has been socially mistreated because of their skin color or other ethnic or body characteristic a decent society is responsible for compensating for that mistreatment to make a level playing field.


Sounds nice, but what is the actual effect in practice when the children are punished for the crimes of their fathers?


What children, what punishment?


I'm referring to the other half of the coin that occurs when such "compensating for that mistreatment to make a level playing field" is put into practice.



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20 Aug 2010, 7:59 pm

Normally, racism is considered a social problem when it leads people to discriminate negatively, persecute, or physically harm other people. So while saying "[insert ethnicity here] people are [insert positive trait here]" is just as fallacious as saying "[insert ethnicity here] people are [insert negative trait here]" the latter is usually the one about which we should be more concerned.

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
It is more than a motivation for persecution, it is also a motivation for disproportionate preferential treatment. Both are wrong.

It is much more often a motivation for persecution. I'm actually trying to think of examples of positive racial stereotypes used as a motive for disproportionate preferential treatment... I mean, affirmative action is preferential treatment, but it's based on an attempt to correct for persecution rather than a belief that minorities are better at some things.


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20 Aug 2010, 8:00 pm

greenblue wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
greenblue wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Racism is not just irrational hatred of people based upon superficiality and genealogy, but it also is equally irrational love of people based upon the very same criteria as the hatred is. When people decide in generalized terms, "I hate these people because they are from here or look like this", they are scorned and mocked and ridiculed as a fool and rightfully so. However, when people go with the opposite emotion of love, they are not so regarded even though they are also performing the same fallacious reasoning. So, is it acceptable to blindly love somebody based upon criteria they cannot alter? Is it acceptable to blindly hate someone based upon criteria they cannot alter?

I suppose I am racist.
How?

Because I like asian women.

And I like a very particular Jewish woman who I'm married to. I love her for plenty more than just that though.



Sand
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20 Aug 2010, 8:05 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Racism is not just irrational hatred of people based upon superficiality and genealogy, but it also is equally irrational love of people based upon the very same criteria as the hatred is. When people decide in generalized terms, "I hate these people because they are from here or look like this", they are scorned and mocked and ridiculed as a fool and rightfully so. However, when people go with the opposite emotion of love, they are not so regarded even though they are also performing the same fallacious reasoning. So, is it acceptable to blindly love somebody based upon criteria they cannot alter? Is it acceptable to blindly hate someone based upon criteria they cannot alter?


Racism is based on judging a whole diverse group of people on highly over simplistic tags such as skin color or some body characteristic which is totally invalid. It is worse than being merely incorrect, it is used as a motivation for persecution and that is unacceptable.


It is more than a motivation for persecution, it is also a motivation for disproportionate preferential treatment. Both are wrong.


I am, of course, guessing, but I infer you resent black people who are still very much treated badly in many ways, are given some sort of extra advantage to permit at least a small number to advance to a better economic status and you find it difficult to compete since you have no extraordinary capabilities to offer. This is just a guess since you indicated nothing concrete.

If a group has been socially mistreated because of their skin color or other ethnic or body characteristic a decent society is responsible for compensating for that mistreatment to make a level playing field.


Sounds nice, but what is the actual effect in practice when the children are punished for the crimes of their fathers?


What children, what punishment?


I'm referring to the other half of the coin that occurs when such "compensating for that mistreatment to make a level playing field" is put into practice.



iamnotaparakeet
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20 Aug 2010, 10:25 pm

Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Racism is not just irrational hatred of people based upon superficiality and genealogy, but it also is equally irrational love of people based upon the very same criteria as the hatred is. When people decide in generalized terms, "I hate these people because they are from here or look like this", they are scorned and mocked and ridiculed as a fool and rightfully so. However, when people go with the opposite emotion of love, they are not so regarded even though they are also performing the same fallacious reasoning. So, is it acceptable to blindly love somebody based upon criteria they cannot alter? Is it acceptable to blindly hate someone based upon criteria they cannot alter?


Racism is based on judging a whole diverse group of people on highly over simplistic tags such as skin color or some body characteristic which is totally invalid. It is worse than being merely incorrect, it is used as a motivation for persecution and that is unacceptable.


It is more than a motivation for persecution, it is also a motivation for disproportionate preferential treatment. Both are wrong.


I am, of course, guessing, but I infer you resent black people who are still very much treated badly in many ways, are given some sort of extra advantage to permit at least a small number to advance to a better economic status and you find it difficult to compete since you have no extraordinary capabilities to offer. This is just a guess since you indicated nothing concrete.

If a group has been socially mistreated because of their skin color or other ethnic or body characteristic a decent society is responsible for compensating for that mistreatment to make a level playing field.

You would be wrong then, as I don't resent black people. I do have the capability to run an entire kitchen during lunch rush, allowing for a couple people to do cashiering and a manager to eat in back while other people work, and given that there are multiple stations and tasks to perform in a kitchen even when it isn't as busy I would say that was extraordinary back in the days when I was working. Heck, if it wasn't for my ability to outperform the whole kitchen staff I would have been replaced a lot sooner because the shift manager who was extremely preferential to all ethnic groups except for white was always seeking an excuse to get me fired for.

Sounds nice, but what is the actual effect in practice when the children are punished for the crimes of their fathers?


What children, what punishment?



I'm referring to the other half of the coin that occurs when such "compensating for that mistreatment to make a level playing field" is put into practice.



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21 Aug 2010, 5:25 am

Racism is a form of reductionism. It is also a way of confounding the accidental and the essential.

It is, in dry neutral terms, a serious category error.

Many Liberals who express concern and woe for darker skin people are as racist (in the above sense) as the bigots who think persons with much melanin in their skins are sub-human animals.

ruveyn



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21 Aug 2010, 5:30 am

ruveyn wrote:
Racism is a form of reductionism. It is also a way of confounding the accidental and the essential.

It is, in dry neutral terms, a serious category error.

Many Liberals who express concern and woe for darker skin people are as racist (in the above sense) as the bigots who think persons with much melanin in their skins are sub-human animals.

ruveyn


Your assumption is, of course, that dark skinned people do not deserve protection and compensation from the obvious racism that has persecuted them. The same, of course, applies to Jews who have been persecuted for centuries, just as have dark skinned people.