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myth
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04 Apr 2012, 11:43 am

hyperlexian wrote:
myth wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
myth wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
right... so he can petition and get shared custody. what's the problem with that?

So, women can petition to get equal pay. What's wrong with that?

they are petitioning. it's called feminism.

But isn't their issue based on the fact that they don't automatically get equal pay? Isn't that wrong?

i didn't know you agreed with that. interesting that you want equal rights for men in areas like paternity but not for women in areas like equal pay.

Who said I didn't want them or that I agreed with the issue in question? My question was in regards to your (or feminism's) beliefs.


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Last edited by myth on 04 Apr 2012, 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

hyperlexian
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04 Apr 2012, 11:44 am

AspieRogue wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
right... so he can petition and get shared custody. what's the problem with that?




The way american family law courts work is that in cases where the mother gets custody by (legal)default, if the father petitions the court he has to prove to the judge that him gaining joint custody is in the interests of the child's welfare. Furthermore, if wishes to have custody transferred to him, he must prove that the mother is unfit to care for the children. My sister is attorney and that's where I'm getting this information from. Many judges in the US still believe strongly that Dad = breadwinner and Mom = caregiver.

but this is only in cases where they are not together when the child is born. if the father isn't around for the pregnancy but wants to share custody, he can have that right. i think it would be better if it were automatically given as shared custody, as that would definitely be more fair.


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hyperlexian
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04 Apr 2012, 11:45 am

myth wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
myth wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
myth wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
right... so he can petition and get shared custody. what's the problem with that?

So, women can petition to get equal pay. What's wrong with that?

they are petitioning. it's called feminism.

But isn't their issue based on the fact that they don't automatically get equal pay? Isn't that wrong?

i didn't know you agreed with that. interesting that you want equal rights for men in areas like paternity but not for women in areas like equal pay.

Who said I didn't want them or that I agreed with the issue in question? My question was in regards to your (or feminism's) beliefs.

well, what do you think? should women automatically get equal pay? and should men automatically get shared custody?


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myth
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04 Apr 2012, 11:48 am

No. It should be based on the qualities of the individual in question.


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hyperlexian
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04 Apr 2012, 11:52 am

myth wrote:
No. It should be based on the qualities of the individual in question.

i guess you are not a masculinist then?


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myth
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04 Apr 2012, 11:57 am

No, I'm not. I used the term "masculinist" yesterday in an attempt to make a point about how the word is gendered and no one would take me seriously if I claimed to be a masculinist and claimed I was advocating equality.

Secondly, I do believe that in some situations men can be discrminated against or treated unfairly as well. In those cases, I would be a masculinist. I would only advocate that side as an opposition to feminism with the intention of "checks and balances".


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hyperlexian
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04 Apr 2012, 11:58 am

myth wrote:
No, I'm not. I used the term "masculinist" yesterday in an attempt to make a point about how the word is gendered and no one would take me seriously if I claimed to be a masculinist and claimed I was advocating equality.

Secondly, I do believe that in some situations men can be discrminated against or treated unfairly as well. In those cases, I would be a masculinist. I would only advocate that side as an opposition to feminism with the intention of "checks and balances".

so you think that men should be advocated for and not women?


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04 Apr 2012, 12:00 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
myth wrote:
No, I'm not. I used the term "masculinist" yesterday in an attempt to make a point about how the word is gendered and no one would take me seriously if I claimed to be a masculinist and claimed I was advocating equality.

Secondly, I do believe that in some situations men can be discrminated against or treated unfairly as well. In those cases, I would be a masculinist. I would only advocate that side as an opposition to feminism with the intention of "checks and balances".

so you think that men should be advocated for and not women?


Way to miss it, hyper. Talk about over-reducing what she said.


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hyperlexian
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04 Apr 2012, 12:03 pm

Ragtime wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
myth wrote:
No, I'm not. I used the term "masculinist" yesterday in an attempt to make a point about how the word is gendered and no one would take me seriously if I claimed to be a masculinist and claimed I was advocating equality.

Secondly, I do believe that in some situations men can be discrminated against or treated unfairly as well. In those cases, I would be a masculinist. I would only advocate that side as an opposition to feminism with the intention of "checks and balances".

so you think that men should be advocated for and not women?


Way to miss it, hyper. Talk about over-reducing what she said.

i didn't miss anything, though perhaps she may wish that i had.


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Ragtime
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04 Apr 2012, 12:03 pm

This person is pretty articulate on the subject. Here's just one of their videos on feminism, but you can see there are several others. It's not playing on my computer right now, but it might work for other users.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxDxQGEY1Xg[/youtube]

(Oops, it's now working, and I can see I could have started with a much milder one! It's been a while since I've seen this series. Also, apologies if it's wrong to post a vid with curse words in it.)


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Last edited by Ragtime on 04 Apr 2012, 12:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

myth
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04 Apr 2012, 12:06 pm

Why would I wish anything about what you know or think you know? You think your picking out parts of what I say and attempting to polarize them has any effect on me whatsoever other than to make me think maybe you're a bit biased?


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hyperlexian
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04 Apr 2012, 12:09 pm

myth wrote:
Why would I wish anything about what you know or think you know? You think your picking out parts of what I say and attempting to polarize them has any effect on me whatsoever other than to make me think maybe you're a bit biased?

you clearly stated that women should not automatically get equal pay, yet you think men should be advocated for in areas where THEY do not have equality. in fact... your own bias has been demonstrated.

i think that BOTH men and women should be advocated for.


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04 Apr 2012, 12:14 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
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i have been called a b***h too. and there have been multi-page debates about the words "skank" and "whore" and "slut" because many members do think that those are appropriate words for a promiscuous female.



Ok well I was saying I have not seen that in this thread, and I did not get the impression these are words that are thrown around wrong planet a whole lot......sorry I wasn't aware.

you're right that they haven't been spoken in this thread.


But people have been ridiculed in this thread for not agreeing with feminism, hence the comment 'bolded for hilarity' as a response to one of my comments with stuff I said put in bold. So not that such things would justify terms like b***h and slut being thrown around, but that sort of thing might contribute to negative feelings towards feminism in general.

just an observation.



I guess we choose what to see and ignore what has been called out due to our own personal biases. As for the rest, my words were probably not put in good context, but I have been labeled a feminazi and I frequently see words I used as examples thrown around outside of WP. My argument was only in refute to Ragtime's argument that feminists (people for women's rights) see most men in a negative light. In fact it seems more acceptable to use terms like feminazi and the words I used even by other women. Just sayin. I don't see how feminists are more or less sexist than men and women against women. Maybe I'm wrong but it just seems there is more negative light on women. I'm not saying women are any better than men nor am I saying women should be treated special but if we're going to go into generalizations, might as well give examples of it going the other way. As for the rest, I'm for human rights, men, women, homosexuals, trans-genders, races....you name it.


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myth
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04 Apr 2012, 12:16 pm

Actually, I stated that neither should automatically get anything. THEN I responded to your question where you specifically asked if I was a masculinist to which I responded that I believe at times men do get discrmininated against. Does that mean I don't think women get discriminated against? I'm sure at times they do. I've stated several times in this thread that I believe there is occasional discrimination on both sides. I do tend to speak up for the male side more often than the female, though, due to the females being plenty vocal and active regarding their side already whereas I don't see male rights recieving as much attention.

Besides, I probably am a little biased. I have no problems admitting that and even mentioned it on this thread earlier. Everyone is to some extent and it colors the way we see things. I try my best to see things clearly, of course, but I am only human.


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HisDivineMajesty
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04 Apr 2012, 12:29 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
myth wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
right... so he can petition and get shared custody. what's the problem with that?

So, women can petition to get equal pay. What's wrong with that?

they are petitioning. it's called feminism.


That's another thing I have against feminism - if it's about equal rights, you could speed up the process immensely by making men's paternity rights equal.
Also, abolish conscription for men - you'll give men the right not to join the military, a right women have in a lot of places.



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04 Apr 2012, 12:39 pm

If we equal rights were that simple we wouldn't be having this discussion. Feminists didn't come up with the idea that only men should join the army by conscription and women are still struggin in areas such as equal pay in work places.


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