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Lord_Gareth
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21 Mar 2012, 10:58 am

ruveyn wrote:
Lord_Gareth wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Tequila wrote:
And to put it in a different perspective: American Christian fundamentalism sounds pretty extreme and intolerant too. Neither is good. Secular liberalism is where it is at. :)


Have any American Christian fundies hijacked a commercial air flight and crashed it into a tall building?

Do American Christian Fundies strap on explosive packs and blow up supermarkets and bus-stops?

ruveyn


Well, there was that one asshat in Utah that drove his exploding truck into a building....


How often does that happen. In the case of Islamic Jihadis explosions are a daily event. In the case of Christian Fundies, maybe once every ten years.

ruveyn


Well, there's the guy with the truck, there's the abortion clinic bombings, the assassinations (generally of abortion clinic doctors), the militarized gun-cults, the doomsday survivalists getting into sieges with the 'fascist zionist government'....

Pretty often, I'd say, yeah. Plus it's really hard to classify what's happening in our war zones as being acts of terror - we are, after all, at war with those people. The buses and subway stations in other nations? Yeah, sure, that's horrible and totally unjustified...but so is bombing civilian targets and guess who's holding the World Championship Record on that one?

Yeah.


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ruveyn
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21 Mar 2012, 10:59 am

Lord_Gareth wrote:

Well, there's the guy with the truck, there's the abortion clinic bombings, the assassinations (generally of abortion clinic doctors), the militarized gun-cults, the doomsday survivalists getting into sieges with the 'fascist zionist government'....


Yeah.


Very infrequent. We have not had an abortion clinic bombing for years. We had a major al Queda bomb attack the day before yesterday. Islamic bombings are virtually a daily occurrence. It is constant and it has been happening for decades.

ruveyn



Lord_Gareth
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21 Mar 2012, 11:04 am

ruveyn wrote:
Lord_Gareth wrote:

Well, there's the guy with the truck, there's the abortion clinic bombings, the assassinations (generally of abortion clinic doctors), the militarized gun-cults, the doomsday survivalists getting into sieges with the 'fascist zionist government'....


Yeah.


Very infrequent. We have not had an abortion clinic bombing for years. We had a major al Queda bomb attack the day before yesterday. Islamic bombings are virtually a daily occurrence. It is constant and it has been happening for decades.

ruveyn


And wouldn't you know it, we're at war with them. Do you know what happens when you're at war with someone? Generally speaking, they try to kill you, and you try to kill them. al Queda is outnumbered, outgunned, and running from any kind of major military engagement, so they're using deplorable tactics in an attempt to make the conflict end in their favor. That line of reasoning is hardly unique to them, either in history OR in the modern day and age (child soldiers in Africa, anyone?). When you go to war with a numerically inferior force that still refuses to surrender, chances are they're going to do something desperate and despicable, and we've got zero right to act surprised by it. On the other hand, the tactics used by Christian extremists in the US are by civilians, against civilians, in the name of a conflict that should have only been political and verbal, not physical. There's no comparison.


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21 Mar 2012, 11:04 am

ruveyn wrote:
It is constant and it has been happening for decades.


What was the figure - 18,000 terrorist attacks in ten years?



TM
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21 Mar 2012, 11:05 am

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In order to take that as you did you have to put a lot of imagination into it and as I said its putting words in her mouth.

As it was said by puddingmouse and several others what that quote means is that before trying to solve everyone else's problems we should try to solve our own first.
Now you can see that as a rather selfish thing to do and Id agree with that but she does have a point that we are currently in no position to give other cultures advice on how to treat the opposite sex(this sadly applies to males and females alike).

That being said if this thread was only focused how close-minded islam is then you could criticize them all you want on that asèct because you are indeed on a far more accepting community.


My issue kind of is that "solve your own problem" indicates that if certain things are happening in a community which I do not ethnically belong to, but it happens within my country of birth, I need to fix everything wrong done by members of my own ethnicity before I'm allowed to criticize everyone else. Can you see why it's absurd when I write it like that?

Now, I could not care less what happens in the Middle East unless it affects me, if the Taliban wants to bomb girl schools that's a matter for the Afghani authorities, if the Syrian's want to murder, rape and pillage each other until the sun explodes, I could not care less. However, if someone wants to come to my country of birth and bomb girl schools or murder, rape and pillage people I will react.

If a bunch of neo-nazi's, fundamentalist Christians, hardline orthodox jews, hell even hardcore atheists as a group hold a collective doctrine that I and most sensible people view as a complete opposite of every single value that is highly valued in the west, then I will tell them that their doctrine is mid evil and sinister as well.



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21 Mar 2012, 11:06 am

TM wrote:
If a bunch of neo-nazi's, fundamentalist Christians, hardline orthodox jews, hell even hardcore atheists as a group hold a collective doctrine that I and most sensible people view as a complete opposite of every single value that is highly valued in the west, then I will tell them that their doctrine is mid evil and sinister as well.


This.



ruveyn
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21 Mar 2012, 11:07 am

Tequila wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
It is constant and it has been happening for decades.


What was the figure - 18,000 terrorist attacks in ten years?


If you count IMDs, yes.

You have trouble believing that Islamic crazies kill around 1800 people a year?

ruveyn



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21 Mar 2012, 11:16 am

So...are you just ignoring my point about there currently being a war on, or what?


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21 Mar 2012, 11:43 am

Lord_Gareth wrote:
And wouldn't you know it, we're at war with them.


We're not. If we were, the action we would take against the Muslim community in general here would be far more extreme than it is.

This is a domestic terrorist problem.



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21 Mar 2012, 12:44 pm

Tequila wrote:
Cornflake wrote:
Again: it was an ANONYMOUS comment.


Is it OK to 'anonymously' make libellous comments in that thread?

That thread is a place for mud-slinging that you don't have the balls to do face-to-face.

Frankly I think hyperlexian is unfit for the task of moderator and needs to be deposed.


I happened to be having a conversation with hyperlexian at the time and I asked her about that comment. Unless you have a vag and tits it doesn't apply to you, Tequila

A wise administration would be sure to disregard your opinion on moderation


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21 Mar 2012, 12:46 pm

wow, the thread took an interesting turn overnight.

for anyone who wants me removed as a moderator, feel free to contact alex instead of taking a crap in this thread. you know where to find him. i'm not going to defend myself against any unfounded allegations because that would lend them a credence that they don't deserve (except that weird one by Tequila, that i'll address separately). it's quite an interesting strategy for a couple of members to attack me both personally and as a mod when they feel like they can't convince me of their arguments. i'd say that behaviour is quite deplorable and reflects badly on the members who engage in it.

i'll summarise what i believe and conclude what i blieve in this matter. you can agree or disagree (the latter is more likely :lol: ) but i won't be coming back into the thread to argue it further. when it gets to the point of having 3 moderators in the thread trying to keep things civil from my opposition then it's definitely time to end the discussion on my part.

i am completely aware of the deplorable conditions that women are suffering in some middle eastern islamic countries. this isn't news. i am also aware of the frightful problems for female who are.... babies in China, sex slaves in the Netherlands, child prostitutes in Thailand, Hutterites in Canada who cannot vote or own property, sexual violence victims in the UK, First Nations people in North Anerica who do not have access to proper medical care, sexual assault victims in Peru, Mormon sectarians who must submit to polygyny, residents of Djibouti who had their genitals mutilated, Russians who make cents on the dollar doing the same jobs as men, Indians who walk 4 miles to get water every day, etc.

it is offensive to me that people are essentially using the conditions of women in islam as centrepieces to their anti-islam agenda, when those same people are curiously silent about women's conditions elsewhere in the world (even in their own backyard). these women and their lives should not be used as pawns for people's arguments when those people do not take actual action to help them or other females who may need assistance in gaining equality or improved living conditions.

if this thread is NOT just another excuse to promote an anti-islam agenda, then where are all the threads for women in other countries? even a discussion of those women's conditions is considered a derailment on this thread, and a couple of the same members who are arguing for the rights of islamic women have confessed to being anti-feminist.

if people actually want to help islamic women, there are very effective ways to do so. this thread is not one of them.


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21 Mar 2012, 12:49 pm

Tequila wrote:
DC wrote:
I beg to differ, she is strangely absent on almost all threads about Christianity but always shows up to take a pop at Tequila when the subject of Islam comes up.


Did I mention she 'anonymously' claimed I had Borderline Personality Disorder?

what? 8O

that is an accusation beyond the pale.

first of all, it isn't an insult for a person to be told they may have BPD, just like it isn't an insult to be suspected of having AS. the fact that you would be so upset and insulted with the idea of having BPD is not very nice towards the people who actually do have it.

second of all, please tell me why you think i was speaking towards you, because i am not seeing it.


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21 Mar 2012, 12:51 pm

Vigilans wrote:
Tequila wrote:
Cornflake wrote:
Again: it was an ANONYMOUS comment.


Is it OK to 'anonymously' make libellous comments in that thread?

That thread is a place for mud-slinging that you don't have the balls to do face-to-face.

Frankly I think hyperlexian is unfit for the task of moderator and needs to be deposed.


I happened to be having a conversation with hyperlexian at the time and I asked her about that comment. Unless you have a vag and tits it doesn't apply to you, Tequila

A wise administration would be sure to disregard your opinion on moderation

you gave it away.

*makes a pouty face*

i was interested to find out why he was so certain it was him.

oh, and before anyone gets all snitty about it, the gender is all that i told Vigilans.


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21 Mar 2012, 12:54 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
i was interested to find out why he was so certain it was him.


You essentially accused me of 'splitting' several times (i.e. getting very close to people and then dumping them and being horrible to them) when giving me reprimands. 'Splitting' is, as any fule kno, one of the defining characteristics of BPD. I don't have that - I fell out with people for other reasons.

Have a nice holiday in NY. I hear there's some absolutely wonderful craft beer bars there - check them out if you get chance. I'm sure you will. :)



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21 Mar 2012, 12:57 pm

Tequila wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
i was interested to find out why he was so certain it was him.


You essentially accused me of 'splitting' several times (i.e. getting very close to people and then dumping them and being horrible to them) when giving me reprimands. 'Splitting' is, as any fule kno, one of the defining characteristics of BPD. I don't have that - I fell out with people for other reasons.

Have a nice holiday in NY. I hear there's some absolutely wonderful craft beer bars there - check them out if you get chance. I'm sure you will. :)

i've never seen the word "splitting" before. but that is only one characteristic, and a diagnosis would have to be based on more than that. do you fit the rest, then?


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Tequila
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21 Mar 2012, 12:58 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
i've never seen the word "splitting" before. but that is only one characteristic, and a diagnosis would have to be based on more than that. do you fit the rest, then?


Nope.