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AdamAdam
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01 May 2012, 6:35 pm

Grebels wrote:
You may know that public expressions of homophobia are illegal here in the UK.

Not true. Hate speech etc is. Simply voicing homophobic views isn't. Plenty of religious leaders do it all the time.


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I don't understand homosexuality myself. I can sympathise because we can all be born with certain things, like Asperger's for example.

Not the same. Homosexuality isa difference. Aspergers, whether we like it or not, is a disability.

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Then I found out that somebody who had been close to me had been sexually abused as a child. She became a lesbian after two failed marriages.


:roll:

People do not "become" gay. Have you considered that maybe her marriages failed because she was gay, rather than the other way round?

And there is no evidence to suggest that gay people are gay because they were sexually abused as a child



Joker
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01 May 2012, 6:39 pm

AdamAdam wrote:
Grebels wrote:
You may know that public expressions of homophobia are illegal here in the UK.

Not true. Hate speech etc is. Simply voicing homophobic views isn't. Plenty of religious leaders do it all the time.


Quote:
I don't understand homosexuality myself. I can sympathise because we can all be born with certain things, like Asperger's for example.

Not the same. Homosexuality isa difference. Aspergers, whether we like it or not, is a disability.

Quote:
Then I found out that somebody who had been close to me had been sexually abused as a child. She became a lesbian after two failed marriages.


:roll:

People do not "become" gay. Have you considered that maybe her marriages failed because she was gay, rather than the other way round?

And there is no evidence to suggest that gay people are gay because they were sexually abused as a child


I can agree with this because the only reason why it was viewed as a sin in the bible was because at the time they thought sex with the same gender caused diease to spread so to stop this they made it a moral law saying anyone that has sex with the same gender was viewed unclean.

Its a silly law that I do not follow I view a lot of bibcal laws as silly to be honest.



Orr
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01 May 2012, 6:44 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
.

One implication of the article is that it may become more difficult for people who don't want to be suspected of a repressed homosexual orientation to come out with overtly homophobic statements. Repressed homosexuals are going to be very confused about what to do.



Perhaps members of the homosexual subculture will adorn themselves with 'I hate gays' motifs, as a signal that they are interested.

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The study had several limitations, the authors write.


I agree with this part of the article.

I am determined to hate not the homosexual, homophobe, or homophobic homosexual.

If a homophobic homosexual prefers to identify more as a homosexual, or a homophobe, that is their choice.


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Joker
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01 May 2012, 6:47 pm

It is true that most people that have hated gays turn out to be homosexual themselfs.



AdamAdam
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01 May 2012, 6:50 pm

If you believe some of what's written in the bible is silly, why do you believe the rest?



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01 May 2012, 6:51 pm

Edit: I am too slow, this was already posted by crazycatlord.


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Last edited by Orr on 01 May 2012, 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

blauSamstag
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01 May 2012, 6:52 pm

AdamAdam wrote:
Grebels wrote:
You may know that public expressions of homophobia are illegal here in the UK.

Not true. Hate speech etc is. Simply voicing homophobic views isn't. Plenty of religious leaders do it all the time.


Quote:
I don't understand homosexuality myself. I can sympathise because we can all be born with certain things, like Asperger's for example.

Not the same. Homosexuality isa difference. Aspergers, whether we like it or not, is a disability.

Quote:
Then I found out that somebody who had been close to me had been sexually abused as a child. She became a lesbian after two failed marriages.


:roll:

People do not "become" gay. Have you considered that maybe her marriages failed because she was gay, rather than the other way round?

And there is no evidence to suggest that gay people are gay because they were sexually abused as a child


So, are you saying that an inability to emotionally connect with people of the opposite sex makes you de-facto gay, or are you saying that some people have homosexual relationships who are not gay?

I will grant you that the vast majority of gay men are way into dudes. But i have known at least a few people - male and female - who I was pretty sure were just confused and discovered that the only people willing to have interpersonal relationships with them were emotionally manipulative people of their same gender - or at least the first person to have what they felt to be a meaningful relationship with happened to be with an abusive person of the same gender, and then they thought that was a great idea so they stuck with it.

As far as lesbians are concerned, far too large of a number of self-avowed lesbians have felt the need to explain to me in detail that the fact that they were abused by an older male in their formative years may have something to do with their aversion to penii but has nothing to do with the fact that they are gay.

It just doesn't add up.

And then add to that the number of women - including my favorite aunt - who decide that they must be lesbians late in their life, frequently after a life-changing event. In her case, that event was radical mastectomy. In other cases, it's often the death of their spouse.

And then there is the well documented phenomenon of lesbian bed death, and the vastly popular LUG behavior.

So i submit to you that a significant number of self-avowed lesbians arrived at their lifestyle by way of exclusion or decision.

That is simply where the evidence seems to lay.

I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm saying it happens. The fact that guys are pretty promiscuous and women are less promiscuous and less focused on sex may have something to do with it.

That and the preponderance of avowed lesbians who have a distrust of partners who claim to be bisexual - which doesn't seem to be a problem for gay dudes. At least not as much.



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01 May 2012, 6:56 pm

AdamAdam wrote:
If you believe some of what's written in the bible is silly, why do you believe the rest?


Some things can make since like believeing the things Jesus preached he never spoke evil against non believers or said to bow down whorship me he gives you the choice to follow him.

Now some laws can not work in this century back them they could my church only talks about the works of Jesus and his apostels.

Also learning about the lifes of the saints is good for a theolgist like myself.

Their are some good things in the bible that even christian atheists follow yes their is a such thing as a christian atheist who one does not believe in god at all but follows the morals that jesus taught.

I am not the only christian with these views of the bible a lot of us are like thsi we read the book even though their are some things we do not agree with.



AdamAdam
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01 May 2012, 6:57 pm

blauSamstag wrote:
So, are you saying that an inability to emotionally connect with people of the opposite sex makes you de-facto gay, or are you saying that some people have homosexual relationships who are not gay?


Eh? How did you get any of that from what I posted?

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who decide that they must be lesbians late in their life,


Decide, or realise?

Most of your "evidence" seems to come from your own personal experience with people yo've met. I can't believe you've met THAT many gay people for this to have much weight though. I've met plenty of gay people and have the exact opposite impression. ie that it was something they always were, some just take longer to realise or accept it.

If a woman isn't "naturally" attracted to other women, but decided to "become lesbian" after failed relationships with men, is she actually lesbian then? I would say she's either pretending to be lesbian, or fooling herself into believing she is. But I think this is probably very rare.



AdamAdam
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01 May 2012, 6:59 pm

Joker wrote:
Their are some good things in the bible that even christian atheists follow yes their is a such thing as a christian atheist who one does not believe in god at all but follows the morals that jesus taught.


You mean the obvious HUMAN morals, like thou shalt not kill? You don't need an old book full of nonsence and hate speech to know right from wrong. Or at least, most people don''t.



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01 May 2012, 7:08 pm

AdamAdam wrote:
People do not "become" gay.


Do you have any evidence of this?

I suspected a genetic and environmental correlation, but have not done any research.


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01 May 2012, 7:08 pm

AdamAdam wrote:
Joker wrote:
Their are some good things in the bible that even christian atheists follow yes their is a such thing as a christian atheist who one does not believe in god at all but follows the morals that jesus taught.


You mean the obvious HUMAN morals, like thou shalt not kill? You don't need an old book full of nonsence and hate speech to know right from wrong. Or at least, most people don''t.


True I don't need a book to have those morals I already have those morals and I am religious also plenty of people who are Methodists like myself contributed a lot to science.

I view it this way I keep my faith perosnally to myself it is a family and cultural thing. How ever I am a strong supporter of repsect and honor when people are insutling or rude I will rebuke them with a debate.

Athiests and Theists will always be here atheists some time will raise their children to be atheists and theists will raise their children to be theists mjy qiuestion to you is can't we all just get along and debate in a manner that is respectful?



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01 May 2012, 8:40 pm

Orr wrote:
AdamAdam wrote:
People do not "become" gay.


Do you have any evidence of this?

I suspected a genetic and environmental correlation, but have not done any research.


You're right, research suggests that homosexuality (like most neurological or neuroendocrinological traits) has both a genetic and an environmental / developmental component. But the environmental trigger occurs very early, probably prenatally. Which means that gays have been born gay, even if they "became gay" in the womb. The same goes for autism for all we know.

But there is also the special case of bisexual people who first identify as heterosexual and later decide to focus on their same-sex interests, often after some disappointing opposite-sex relationships. I remember the recent media outrage when Sex and the City actress Cynthia Nixon announced that she had chosen to become a lesbian. I assume that she had become aware of her bisexuality, experimented a little and decided that she liked women better than men. So in this sense, people can kind of become gay in their adult life. One can argue if Cynthia Nixon is really gay, but in my opinion, she has the right to define and label her own sexuality. In the end, it shouldn't really matter if it's a choice or not, since there is nothing wrong with same-sex relationships either way.



Last edited by CrazyCatLord on 01 May 2012, 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Joker
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01 May 2012, 8:41 pm

CrazyCatLord wrote:
Orr wrote:
AdamAdam wrote:
People do not "become" gay.


Do you have any evidence of this?

I suspected a genetic and environmental correlation, but have not done any research.


Research suggests that homosexuality (like most neurological or neuroendocrinological traits) has both a genetic and an environmental / developmental component. But the environmental trigger occurs very early, probably prenatally. Which means that gays have been born gay, even if they "became gay" in the womb.

There is the special case of bisexual people who first identify as heterosexual and later decide to focus on their same-sex interests, often after some disappointing opposite-sex relationships. I remember the recent media outrage when Sex and the City actress Cynthia Nixon announced that she had chosen to become a lesbian. I assume that she had become aware of her existing bisexual tendencies and decided that she liked women better than men. So in this sense, people can kind of become gay in their adult life.


If that is true then ones envoriment growing up can play a role as well.



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01 May 2012, 8:57 pm

Joker wrote:
CrazyCatLord wrote:
Orr wrote:
AdamAdam wrote:
People do not "become" gay.


Do you have any evidence of this?

I suspected a genetic and environmental correlation, but have not done any research.


Research suggests that homosexuality (like most neurological or neuroendocrinological traits) has both a genetic and an environmental / developmental component. But the environmental trigger occurs very early, probably prenatally. Which means that gays have been born gay, even if they "became gay" in the womb.

There is the special case of bisexual people who first identify as heterosexual and later decide to focus on their same-sex interests, often after some disappointing opposite-sex relationships. I remember the recent media outrage when Sex and the City actress Cynthia Nixon announced that she had chosen to become a lesbian. I assume that she had become aware of her existing bisexual tendencies and decided that she liked women better than men. So in this sense, people can kind of become gay in their adult life.


If that is true then ones envoriment growing up can play a role as well.


I'm not sure about that. Many neurodevelopmental traits are determined at a very early stage, often before birth. This seems to be the case for sexual orientation (and for autism too btw). There is no evidence that post-birth development has any influence on sexual orientation.



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01 May 2012, 9:13 pm

CrazyCatLord wrote:
Joker wrote:
CrazyCatLord wrote:
Orr wrote:
AdamAdam wrote:
People do not "become" gay.


Do you have any evidence of this?

I suspected a genetic and environmental correlation, but have not done any research.


Research suggests that homosexuality (like most neurological or neuroendocrinological traits) has both a genetic and an environmental / developmental component. But the environmental trigger occurs very early, probably prenatally. Which means that gays have been born gay, even if they "became gay" in the womb.

There is the special case of bisexual people who first identify as heterosexual and later decide to focus on their same-sex interests, often after some disappointing opposite-sex relationships. I remember the recent media outrage when Sex and the City actress Cynthia Nixon announced that she had chosen to become a lesbian. I assume that she had become aware of her existing bisexual tendencies and decided that she liked women better than men. So in this sense, people can kind of become gay in their adult life.


If that is true then ones envoriment growing up can play a role as well.


I'm not sure about that. Many neurodevelopmental traits are determined at a very early stage, often before birth. This seems to be the case for sexual orientation (and for autism too btw). There is no evidence that post-birth development has any influence on sexual orientation.


Yes I know but we are all born sexual beings but with out a sexual preferrence at birth.