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John Brown was a:
Hero! 67%  67%  [ 8 ]
Villain! 17%  17%  [ 2 ]
I don't know, just show the results. 17%  17%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 12

ArrantPariah
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09 Jun 2012, 8:16 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Brown_(abolitionist)

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John Brown (May 9, 1800 – December 2, 1859) was an American revolutionary abolitionist, who in the 1850s advocated and practiced armed insurrection as a means to abolish slavery in the United States. He led the Pottawatomie Massacre, during which five men were killed, in 1856 in Bleeding Kansas, and made his name in the unsuccessful raid at Harpers Ferry in 1859. Later that year he was executed but his speeches at the trial captured national attention. Brown has been called "the most controversial of all 19th-century Americans" and "America's first domestic terrorist."

Brown's attempt in 1859 to start a liberation movement among enslaved African Americans in Harpers Ferry, Virginia electrified the nation. He was tried for treason against the Commonwealth of Virginia, the murder of five pro-slavery Southerners, and inciting a slave insurrection, found guilty on all counts, and was hanged. Southerners alleged that his rebellion was the tip of the abolitionist iceberg and represented the wishes of the Republican Party to end slavery. Historians agree that the Harpers Ferry raid in 1859 escalated tensions that, a year later, led to secession and the American Civil War.

Brown first gained attention when he led small groups of volunteers during the Bleeding Kansas crisis. Unlike most other Northerners, who advocated peaceful resistance to the pro-slavery faction, Brown demanded violent action in response to Southern aggression. Dissatisfied with the pacifism encouraged by the organized abolitionist movement, he reportedly said, "These men are all talk. What we need is action—action!" During the Kansas campaign he and his supporters killed five pro-slavery southerners in what became known as the Pottawatomie Massacre in May 1856 in response to the raid of the "free soil" city of Lawrence. In 1859 he led a raid on the federal armory at Harpers Ferry. During the raid, he seized the armory; seven people were killed, and ten or more were injured. He intended to arm slaves with weapons from the arsenal, but the attack failed. Within 36 hours, Brown's men had fled or been killed or captured by local pro slavery farmers, militiamen, and U.S. Marines led by Robert E. Lee. Brown's subsequent capture by federal forces seized the nation's attention, as Southerners feared it was just the first of many Northern plots to cause a slave rebellion that might endanger their lives, while Republicans dismissed the notion and said they would not interfere with slavery in the South.

Historians agree John Brown played a major role in the start of the Civil War. David Potter (1976) said the emotional effect of Brown's raid was greater than the philosophical effect of the Lincoln-Douglas debates, and that his raid revealed a deep division between North and South. Brown's actions prior to the Civil War as an abolitionist, and the tactics he chose, still make him a controversial figure today. He is sometimes memorialized as a heroic martyr and a visionary and sometimes vilified as a madman and a terrorist. Radicals of both the left and right have revered him as a man willing to take action against an institution he considered immoral. Some writers, such as Bruce Olds, describe him as a monomaniacal zealot, others, such as Stephen B. Oates, regard him as "one of the most perceptive human beings of his generation." David S. Reynolds hails the man who "killed slavery, sparked the civil war, and seeded civil rights" and Richard Owen Boyer emphasizes that Brown was "an American who gave his life that millions of other Americans might be free." For Ken Chowder he is "at certain times, a great man", but also "the father of American terrorism." The song "John Brown's Body" became a Union marching song during the Civil War....


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSSn3NddwFQ&feature=related[/youtube]



Joker
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09 Jun 2012, 8:26 pm

Hero



ArrantPariah
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09 Jun 2012, 8:32 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxvwi-M3LTM[/youtube]



ArrantPariah
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09 Jun 2012, 8:39 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uCtxQ4Ulvc&feature=related[/youtube]



John_Browning
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09 Jun 2012, 9:03 pm

I like his attitude but there were severe problems with his planning. Abolitionists wanted to phase out slavery and deport the slaves to Africa. Considering that abolitionists wanted an end to slavery but didn't want a bunch of former slaves (especially armed ones) running around loose, he never stood to get widespread support.


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ArrantPariah
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09 Jun 2012, 9:09 pm

John_Browning wrote:
I like his attitude but there were severe problems with his planning. Abolitionists wanted to phase out slavery and deport the slaves to Africa. Considering that abolitionists wanted an end to slavery but didn't want a bunch of former slaves (especially armed ones) running around loose, he never stood to get widespread support.


I don't think that most abolitionists were necessarily in favour of deporting the slaves. John Brown brought some slaves to Canada.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abolitionism

Okay, the American Colonization Society did promote sending African Americans to new colonies in Africa

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_C ... on_Society

But I am pretty sure that John Brown did not subscribe to that philosophy.



Last edited by ArrantPariah on 09 Jun 2012, 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Joker
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09 Jun 2012, 9:11 pm

8)



ruveyn
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09 Jun 2012, 9:33 pm

John Brown's actions started a war that killed 620,000 Americans and maimed 1.5 million Americans in a country with a population of about 30 million. The fear of servile revolt made the Southerners insane.

ruveyn



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09 Jun 2012, 9:35 pm

ruveyn wrote:
John Brown's actions started a war that killed 620,000 Americans and maimed 1.5 million Americans in a country with a population of about 30 million. The fear of servile revolt made the Southerners insane.

ruveyn


Not North Carolina we didn't have that many slaves.



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09 Jun 2012, 9:38 pm

Joker wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
John Brown's actions started a war that killed 620,000 Americans and maimed 1.5 million Americans in a country with a population of about 30 million. The fear of servile revolt made the Southerners insane.

ruveyn


Not North Carolina we didn't have that many slaves.


Neither here no their. The claim of the right to own humans as slaves was the basis of the secession. The Southerners were afraid of servile revolt and beefed up their militias. That is what made them so hard to beat once the Civil War erupted.

John Brown was carrying a lit match in a room full of gun powder.

ruveyn



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09 Jun 2012, 9:52 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Joker wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
John Brown's actions started a war that killed 620,000 Americans and maimed 1.5 million Americans in a country with a population of about 30 million. The fear of servile revolt made the Southerners insane.

ruveyn


Not North Carolina we didn't have that many slaves.


Neither here no their. The claim of the right to own humans as slaves was the basis of the secession. The Southerners were afraid of servile revolt and beefed up their militias. That is what made them so hard to beat once the Civil War erupted.

John Brown was carrying a lit match in a room full of gun powder.

ruveyn


We would have won if we used slaves in the army and let them figtht for their freedom.



ArrantPariah
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09 Jun 2012, 10:12 pm

Joker wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
John Brown's actions started a war that killed 620,000 Americans and maimed 1.5 million Americans in a country with a population of about 30 million. The fear of servile revolt made the Southerners insane.

ruveyn


Not North Carolina we didn't have that many slaves.


In 1860, only one-third of North Carolinians were slaves.

http://www.sonofthesouth.net/slavery/sl ... census.htm

In Mississippi and South Carolina, the majority of the people were slaves.



ArrantPariah
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09 Jun 2012, 10:14 pm

ruveyn wrote:
John Brown's actions started a war that killed 620,000 Americans and maimed 1.5 million Americans in a country with a population of about 30 million. The fear of servile revolt made the Southerners insane.

ruveyn


I suppose that would render him a hero.



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09 Jun 2012, 10:14 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
Joker wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
John Brown's actions started a war that killed 620,000 Americans and maimed 1.5 million Americans in a country with a population of about 30 million. The fear of servile revolt made the Southerners insane.

ruveyn


Not North Carolina we didn't have that many slaves.


In 1860, only one-third of North Carolinians were slaves.

http://www.sonofthesouth.net/slavery/sl ... census.htm

In Mississippi and South Carolina, the majority of the people were slaves.


As a southerner I already knew that.



ArrantPariah
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09 Jun 2012, 10:20 pm

Joker wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
Joker wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
John Brown's actions started a war that killed 620,000 Americans and maimed 1.5 million Americans in a country with a population of about 30 million. The fear of servile revolt made the Southerners insane.

ruveyn


Not North Carolina we didn't have that many slaves.


In 1860, only one-third of North Carolinians were slaves.

http://www.sonofthesouth.net/slavery/sl ... census.htm

In Mississippi and South Carolina, the majority of the people were slaves.


As a southerner I already knew that.


What is the official Southern explanation for the relative decline (i.e., as a percentage of the total population) of the African American population since then in those states?



ArrantPariah
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09 Jun 2012, 10:22 pm

Joker wrote:
We would have won if we used slaves in the army and let them figtht for their freedom.


That seemeth contradictory to the goals of the rebellion.