Question for moderate to conservative Christians

Page 1 of 6 [ 88 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

Frieslander
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Jan 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,767
Location: Michigan, USA

24 Jun 2012, 9:35 am

Why does God, if he exists, allow evil in the world? And, by evil I mean suffering, not so much what I consider more "moral" stuff like homosexual lifestyle, etc. I've heard the typical answer, but I wondered what you thought.



DonQuoteme
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jun 2012
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 41
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia

24 Jun 2012, 11:15 am

Frieslander wrote:
Why does God, if he exists, allow evil in the world? And, by evil I mean suffering, not so much what I consider more "moral" stuff like homosexual lifestyle, etc. I've heard the typical answer, but I wondered what you thought.


Okay, I'll bite. But I have to say up front that I'm not your typical Christian. In fact I have gone as far as to distance myself from traditional Christianity. I call myself Christic because I would like to emulate Christ and I think his philosophy as espoused by the Sermon on the Mount is hard to beat, but reject the way the Church twisted it into a religion.

God is a process, not a singular entity. In the sense that God is the process of evolution, God did and does continue to create everything. In the sense that God is consciousness, God is a part of each of us and every living thing; and in a larger sense God is an entire ecosystem. Everything that contains DNA contains a form of consciousness and the means to evolve. In the sense that God is time, God is eternal. And from an eternal perspective, all time - past, present and future - actually occurs simultaneously. Think of each moment in time as a separate realm. Each of us therefore lives in a multitude of realms simultaneously; and each version of us is a separate stream of consciousness. Our subconscious is aware of all the versions of each of us, but the conscious is only aware of one stream. This helps explain why we are largely governed at the subconscious level.

Our soul is the collection of selves in all these realms of time. This is our personal God, if you like. My soul is my personal God; your soul is your personal God. We all answer to our own personal God. Almighty God is really just the process of evolution (invisible but incredibly powerful). But our own personal God is also incredibly powerful, but we as but one self of a much larger soul have very little power unless we align ourselves with the strength of our soul (become reconciled to God as it were).

Our personal God is capable of "resurrecting" us, due to the fact that when one of the selves comprising the soul dies, the consciousness stream continues on in another self. This makes our life everlasting. While we only have a brief lifetime of say 80 years, we can live it over as many times as is necessary to acquire the judgment to make decisions that don't hurt anyone (ie become moral and thereby best serve the ecosystem).

The evil in the world is not because of a failure in the system; it is just a part of the system, necessary to teach us. The process of karma (God's wrath if you like) ensures that those who commit evil face the punishing consequences, and that those who choose good are rewarded (with God's grace as it were). Our own soul directs which stream we're conscious of at any time to ensure we learn our lessons and become conditioned. Our own soul can therefore be a good ally or our worse enemy - just like God is schizophrenically depicted in the Bible. If we make the connection between our choices and their consequences, we eventually learn to become moral, and we are rewarded with joyful living (equivalent to the Biblical Heaven). However, if we don't make this connection we will spend an eternity making the same mistakes over and over again and suffering the consequences (the Biblical Hell as it were).

So it's not that God allows evil as much as we are capable of evil (since we have the free-will to do whatever we please). The problem is that people anthropomorphise God (i.e. desire to make God human-like). This is only natural since each of us is indeed a member of an assembly of selves that comprise the soul (the Biblical body of Christ if you like). Subconsciously we each know this, which is why our ancestors felt inspired to write the scriptures and why so many of us are innately religious or seek explanations for our existence. Scientists even tell us that our minds are programmed to seek God. It's no coincidence; it's how evolution made us.

I hope I've managed to answer your question satisfactorily. :)



Tim_Tex
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Jul 2004
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 45,472
Location: Houston, Texas

24 Jun 2012, 12:26 pm

I think it's a way of testing our resilience and our trust in Him to get us through the hard times.


_________________
Who’s better at math than a robot? They’re made of math!

Now proficient in ChatGPT!


cbeckmandc
Butterfly
Butterfly

User avatar

Joined: 14 May 2012
Age: 54
Gender: Male
Posts: 15

24 Jun 2012, 2:45 pm

I like Tim Tex's answer. Read The Book of Job for the Bible's answer or "The Problem Of Pain" for CS Lewis' answer.



simon_says
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Jan 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,075

24 Jun 2012, 2:52 pm

There can be no satisfactory answer. Wiping out whole families in a tsunami or letting children starve to death after a famine is just going to have to go in the mysterious ways file. As with many of these questions.



TallyMan
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 40,061

24 Jun 2012, 4:01 pm

simon_says wrote:
There can be no satisfactory answer. Wiping out whole families in a tsunami or letting children starve to death after a famine is just going to have to go in the mysterious ways file. As with many of these questions.


It could even make one question whether a God exists anyway if he/she/it never intervenes in anything. :wink:


_________________
I've left WP indefinitely.


ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,265

24 Jun 2012, 4:14 pm

simon_says wrote:
There can be no satisfactory answer. Wiping out whole families in a tsunami or letting children starve to death after a famine is just going to have to go in the mysterious ways file. As with many of these questions.


According to the Bible, God has a reason for everything that happens.



Frieslander
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Jan 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,767
Location: Michigan, USA

24 Jun 2012, 4:26 pm

cbeckmandc wrote:
I like Tim Tex's answer. Read The Book of Job for the Bible's answer or "The Problem Of Pain" for CS Lewis' answer.


I've heard sermons based on Job and read a lot of it and I couldn't stand it.



DC
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Aug 2011
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,477

24 Jun 2012, 4:36 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
simon_says wrote:
There can be no satisfactory answer. Wiping out whole families in a tsunami or letting children starve to death after a famine is just going to have to go in the mysterious ways file. As with many of these questions.


According to the Bible, God has a reason for everything that happens.



So when an 18 month old baby gets fistfucked to death by a paedophile, god decided it should happen?

Sorry about the harsh scenario, but this sort of thing does happen under the watch of an omnipotent creator apparently...



simon_says
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Jan 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,075

24 Jun 2012, 6:23 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
simon_says wrote:
There can be no satisfactory answer. Wiping out whole families in a tsunami or letting children starve to death after a famine is just going to have to go in the mysterious ways file. As with many of these questions.


According to the Bible, God has a reason for everything that happens.


Uh huh. Well that's an IOU for an answer. It falls under "mysterious ways" as I suggested.

The bible provides far fewer answers than people pretend it does.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,265

24 Jun 2012, 6:39 pm

DC wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
simon_says wrote:
There can be no satisfactory answer. Wiping out whole families in a tsunami or letting children starve to death after a famine is just going to have to go in the mysterious ways file. As with many of these questions.


According to the Bible, God has a reason for everything that happens.



So when an 18 month old baby gets f**** to death by a paedophile, god decided it should happen?

Sorry about the harsh scenario, but this sort of thing does happen under the watch of an omnipotent creator apparently...

The Bible also mentions satanic influence on man as well.



Frieslander
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Jan 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,767
Location: Michigan, USA

24 Jun 2012, 6:41 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
DC wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
simon_says wrote:
There can be no satisfactory answer. Wiping out whole families in a tsunami or letting children starve to death after a famine is just going to have to go in the mysterious ways file. As with many of these questions.


According to the Bible, God has a reason for everything that happens.



So when an 18 month old baby gets f**** to death by a paedophile, god decided it should happen?

Sorry about the harsh scenario, but this sort of thing does happen under the watch of an omnipotent creator apparently...

The Bible also mentions satanic influence on man as well.


Why does God allow it, if he exists, if he doesn't have to allow it? Sometimes humans say that people who sit by idly while they can stop bad things are almost as guilty as those who do the bad deeds. The God of the Bible fits under that.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,265

24 Jun 2012, 6:47 pm

Frieslander wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
DC wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
simon_says wrote:
There can be no satisfactory answer. Wiping out whole families in a tsunami or letting children starve to death after a famine is just going to have to go in the mysterious ways file. As with many of these questions.


According to the Bible, God has a reason for everything that happens.



So when an 18 month old baby gets f**** to death by a paedophile, god decided it should happen?

Sorry about the harsh scenario, but this sort of thing does happen under the watch of an omnipotent creator apparently...

The Bible also mentions satanic influence on man as well.


Why does God allow it, if he exists, if he doesn't have to allow it? Sometimes humans say that people who sit by idly while they can stop bad things are almost as guilty as those who do the bad deeds. The God of the Bible fits under that.

In the book of Job God makes a deal with Satan and lets Satan harm Job to test Job's faith. Perhaps this is the reason God lets Satan cause harm?



DC
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Aug 2011
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,477

24 Jun 2012, 6:52 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
In the book of Job God makes a deal with Satan and lets Satan harm Job to test Job's faith. Perhaps this is the reason God lets Satan cause harm?


So if god is truly omnipotent, why did he make the deal other than because he is a sadist and he wanted us to suffer?

And if god is not omnipotent, he isn't god...



simon_says
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Jan 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,075

24 Jun 2012, 7:01 pm

2,000 - 3,000 years on and judeo-christianity still has no answers for these basic questions. Because bronze age people had no answers for it.



Vigilans
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,181
Location: Montreal

24 Jun 2012, 7:03 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
DC wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
simon_says wrote:
There can be no satisfactory answer. Wiping out whole families in a tsunami or letting children starve to death after a famine is just going to have to go in the mysterious ways file. As with many of these questions.


According to the Bible, God has a reason for everything that happens.



So when an 18 month old baby gets f**** to death by a paedophile, god decided it should happen?

Sorry about the harsh scenario, but this sort of thing does happen under the watch of an omnipotent creator apparently...

The Bible also mentions satanic influence on man as well.


Satan serves the will of the omnipotent creator in any case so even blaming him for human actions amounts to admitting God plays a large part in evil's existence


_________________
Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do