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thomas81
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26 Jun 2014, 4:17 pm

Despite the Roman Empire's brutality and faults it was a pretty progressive institution for its time.

It revolutionised road building, sewerage, democracy and science. Also it was sexually liberal and much more meritocratic than say, the christian slavers of industrial age Europe. It didnt favour or penalise on the basis of race and people could prove their worth through their warrior mettle.


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Kurgan
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26 Jun 2014, 4:31 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Despite the Roman Empire's brutality and faults it was a pretty progressive institution for its time.

It revolutionised road building, sewerage, democracy and science. Also it was sexually liberal and much more meritocratic than say, the christian slavers of industrial age Europe. It didnt favour or penalise on the basis of race and people could prove their worth through their warrior mettle.


The Romans only had sex in the dark and with most of their clothes on. Even kissing your wife in public was punishable (most likely, Rome is where sexual prudishness originated). That's hardly sexually liberated if you ask me. The Romans didn't give a damn about science either (technology was completely unrelated to science back then); the biggest loss in science was because Rome annexed Greece.


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26 Jun 2014, 4:51 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Despite the Roman Empire's brutality and faults it was a pretty progressive institution for its time.

It revolutionised road building, sewerage, democracy and science. Also it was sexually liberal and much more meritocratic than say, the christian slavers of industrial age Europe. It didnt favour or penalise on the basis of race and people could prove their worth through their warrior mettle.


In regard to Roman democracy - while senators had been elected, they had to be of the senatorial class, into which you were normally born into, though there were those with luck and pluck who had risen to that rank. The class conscious Sulla had stripped newer senatorial families of their rank in the days of the Republic. But by the time of the empire, Romans had lost free government to one man rule of first the dictator, Julius Caesar, and then the emperors. The senate by the imperial period was becoming a rubber stamp, while the emperors' real partner in power was the Roman army.


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AspergianMutantt
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26 Jun 2014, 5:06 pm

Actually, if you look at Pompeii, sex (slave prostitution) was vary prevalent. but there were vary few mass orgies except at privet homes, the romans were indeed prudish when it came to sex but only in that of with other roman citizens, the slaves were a totally deferent matter.. as for the bath houses, they were mostly places to socialize not have sex parties at. and they were not as sanitary as one may think. Pompeii is indeed a vary good reference frozen in time.

Now if you want to talk about an orgy based society go research Carthage, the basic reason Rome didn't like Carthage was because it was a trade hub and Rome didn't like not getting a piece of their pie, as well as some people were trying to threaten Rome and blame it on them as a hopeful means of getting out of their way other potential successors. eventually Carthage got sick of it and sicked Hannibal on them.


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Last edited by AspergianMutantt on 26 Jun 2014, 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Kurgan
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26 Jun 2014, 5:17 pm

AspergianMutantt wrote:
Actually, if you look at Pompeii, sex (slave prostitution) was vary prevalent. but there were vary few mass orgies except at privet homes, the romans were indeed prudish when it came to sex but only in that of with other roman citizens, the slaves were a totally deferent matter.. as for the bath houses, they were mostly places to socialize not have sex parties at. and they were not as sanitary as one may think. Pompeii is indeed a vary good reference frozen in time.


To the Romans, slaves were nothing more than moving furniture. Romans were also the ones who popularized monogamy, so I don't think they slept with slaves just like that either.


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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26 Jun 2014, 9:12 pm

Caligula was insane and he didn't last long. He was assassinated by his own guard because he made them say stupid, embarrassing stuff all the time and kept having them killed.



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26 Jun 2014, 9:13 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Despite the Roman Empire's brutality and faults it was a pretty progressive institution for its time.

It revolutionised road building, sewerage, democracy and science. Also it was sexually liberal and much more meritocratic than say, the christian slavers of industrial age Europe. It didnt favour or penalise on the basis of race and people could prove their worth through their warrior mettle.


It still sucked pretty bad. People were pretty much expendable and most were slaves.



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26 Jun 2014, 10:29 pm

Kurgan wrote:
AspergianMutantt wrote:
Actually, if you look at Pompeii, sex (slave prostitution) was vary prevalent. but there were vary few mass orgies except at privet homes, the romans were indeed prudish when it came to sex but only in that of with other roman citizens, the slaves were a totally deferent matter.. as for the bath houses, they were mostly places to socialize not have sex parties at. and they were not as sanitary as one may think. Pompeii is indeed a vary good reference frozen in time.


To the Romans, slaves were nothing more than moving furniture. Romans were also the ones who popularized monogamy, so I don't think they slept with slaves just like that either.


Actually, slaves of both sexes were often sexually assaulted by their Roman masters, much like in Antebellum America, even though monogamy was the standard practice among married people in both cases.


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26 Jun 2014, 11:51 pm

In Rome, the married, free women were prudish and Vestal Virgins were prized as priestesses for the goddess Vesta and guarded her sacred fire of the hearth and since the Vestals were so matronly and beloved, they were like role models. If a Vestal were found to not be a Virgin, her punishment was live burial. Romulus and Remus, twins suckled by a wolf b***h with Romulus later founding Rome, were born of a Vestal.

So, there was a bit of a double standard. The free wife was allowed to be cold. Men and slaves were not. But some men were virtuous and prized this value.

One of my all time favorite mini series is Anno Domini, anyone seen it? The original uncut version is the best. Lots of Roman history in it.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCGTo1i-nyI[/youtube]



GoonSquad
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27 Jun 2014, 9:39 am

Roman sexual attitudes were a lot like the sexual attitudes you might find in small town American south or mid-west today.

The reason that the Cicero speech I mentioned before is so interesting is because it illustrated these attitudes...

Cicero was a 'lawyer' and he was defending a young, rich, Roman man, Marcus Caelius Rufus, who had been implicated in a murder plot. One of his main accusers was a woman named Clodia Metelli and Cicero hangs much of his defense on character assassination of Clodia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clodia

Quote:
Cicero accused Clodia of being a seducer and a drunkard in Rome and in Baiae and alluded to the persistent rumours of an incestuous relationship with Clodius. Cicero stated that he "would [attack Caelius' accusers] still more vigorously, if I had not a quarrel with that woman's [Clodia's] husband?brother, I meant to say; I am always making this mistake. At present I will proceed with moderation... for I have never thought it my duty to engage in quarrels with any woman, especially with one whom all men have always considered everybody's friend rather than any one's enemy."[3] He declared her a disgrace to her family and nicknamed Clodia the Medea of the Palatine.



So, you can see from this source that proper Roman society was very prudish about sex, just as we are in the American south and mid-west today. BUT, that didn't stop many people from partying and whoring around, just as it does not stop many people in the American south and mid-west from partying and whoring around today.

People are people, it doesn't matter if we're talking about ancient Rome or modern America.


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pawelk1986
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27 Jun 2014, 4:13 pm

My favorite movie :D
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3Ij35niYHg[/youtube]
My favorite video game :D
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICPTaVEl_JA[/youtube]

(BTW that guy make very good polish video game review)



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27 Jun 2014, 6:30 pm

pawelk1986 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
pawelk1986 wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
Rome wasn't what we thought it was. Everything wasn't pure and white (Roman statues were painted and looked silly when they were new), they did not have massive orgies (they were, in fact, extremely prudish), and they were extremely egalitarian in terms of race.



Strange I heard something else that they indulged in orgies and drinking of liquor in excess.


Well, there were always exceptions, such as degenerates like Caligula who took delight in humiliating senators by sexually assaulting their wives when inviting them to dinner.


He made his own race horse as senator to humiliate senate, and made his own uncle Claudius, (who was disabled and probably aspie) a Consul to show senators who is in charge.

Such ancient version of Kim Jong-un :D


Have you watched the tv series, 'I, Claudius'?


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AspergianMutantt
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27 Jun 2014, 6:33 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
pawelk1986 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
pawelk1986 wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
Rome wasn't what we thought it was. Everything wasn't pure and white (Roman statues were painted and looked silly when they were new), they did not have massive orgies (they were, in fact, extremely prudish), and they were extremely egalitarian in terms of race.



Strange I heard something else that they indulged in orgies and drinking of liquor in excess.


Well, there were always exceptions, such as degenerates like Caligula who took delight in humiliating senators by sexually assaulting their wives when inviting them to dinner.


He made his own race horse as senator to humiliate senate, and made his own uncle Claudius, (who was disabled and probably aspie) a Consul to show senators who is in charge.

Such ancient version of Kim Jong-un :D


Have you watched the tv series, 'I, Claudius'?


I have but its been a major amount of years since I seen it. I seen the PBS play house version.


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pawelk1986
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27 Jun 2014, 8:01 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
pawelk1986 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
pawelk1986 wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
Rome wasn't what we thought it was. Everything wasn't pure and white (Roman statues were painted and looked silly when they were new), they did not have massive orgies (they were, in fact, extremely prudish), and they were extremely egalitarian in terms of race.



Strange I heard something else that they indulged in orgies and drinking of liquor in excess.


Well, there were always exceptions, such as degenerates like Caligula who took delight in humiliating senators by sexually assaulting their wives when inviting them to dinner.


He made his own race horse as senator to humiliate senate, and made his own uncle Claudius, (who was disabled and probably aspie) a Consul to show senators who is in charge.

Such ancient version of Kim Jong-un :D


Have you watched the tv series, 'I, Claudius'?


Yes i do and very liked my mom also liked. Is often re-runes on many Polish tv station.

My mom first watched it on Polish State TV in early 80's

When I was a small child, maybe I exaggerate a little when I was a teenager, this film had replay on TV, my mother insisted that I watched the tv series with her. At first I hesitated, the old series from the 80's to and this costume series( i don't liked it than), but I agreed. Then I waited for each subsequent episode,

My mom liked historical movies and tv series. I also watched "Shogun" tv series with Richard Chamberlain.