Universal Basic Income...

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your whole attitude is that "productive" people are all that matter. for you, productivity = worthiness as a human being as opposed to those who cannot produce anything. you badmouthed such folks but you didn't badmouth "productive" people, so that tells me who you consider worthy as humans of survival. you don't want your tax dollars to go to help anybody you consider "unworthy" such as "unproductive" people - you consider the military and police and fire departments to be worthy but not anything related to social services. that is short-sighted because without social services no amount of military and police and fire departments can clean up the resultant mess.


so you would prefer the helpless would just disappear then. you don't want your tax dollars to help the helpless. fine. you only care about "productive people."


that IS my answer, you are exhibiting the behavior and opinions of an ableist. I have no use for such. all my life I have had to put up with people such as yourself browbeating me because I am not sufficiently "productive" even going so far as to call me "slacker" and other such nasty names. I would just rather avoid such people.

Alright than let's define who the productive are and who the unproductive really are. The whole problem is you're 'middle class' is just propping up the 1%, and uber wealthy...they get corporate welfare and numerous tax breaks, they sit on the majority of the wealth and try to keep it 'in the family' to keep it out of the hands of anyone outside their elite class.

But as was pointed out earlier the poor are an easier target to direct the anger and resentment that would make more sense being directed at the government officials bought out by wealthy and/or corporate lobbyists(as well as those lobbyists) who are really the ones screwing people over. But that would actually make sense...

Also going and fixing a friends washer machine for 50 dollars is not taxable income.

UBI is a band-aid proposed to patch up a gaping chest wound.

The structural inequality which necessitates the existence of lower classes can't be solved by distributing extra consumption-vouchers to the members of those classes - consumption is already a component of their structural role, so the structure itself isn't changed, only reconfigured. The gap may draw close for a time, but the system which enabled it to previously widen will live on.

It is not liberalization of the media of exchange, but liberation of the means of production from the non-productive gatekeeper classes (which exist in government and private industry alike), which will empower the economically oppressed to liberate themselves.

Careful. I think the IRS disagrees.

http://www.irs.gov/uac/Reporting-Miscellaneous-Income

Gawd, one thing I absolutely don't miss about being in the radical left is its preponderance for pretentious word salad when a few words would have said just as much. You could have just said, "communism" and we'd have understood. Which, by the way, has repeatedly shown itself to be a backwards ideology that leads to death and destruction on almost unbelievable scales.

I'm a Mutualist. Nice strawmanning though!

Well have been reading that thing for the past half hour and cannot find anything that specifies that such payment is subject to taxation or that it is even considered as income. Now if you are 'employed' by the friend, like you work for a plumbing company(or whatever companies fix washer machines) and your friend 'hires' you through the company and you are on the 'job' when the repair takes place then it would be taxable. Or if you're self employed and repairing on the Job.

Even if it where taxable though how would the IRS find out if such a transaction took place...would you report that?

My understanding - and I Am Not A Lawyer, This Is Not Legal Advice - is that the income is considered self-employment income for tax purposes.

If the work is "under the table" without a paper trail, then the IRS can't find out unless :
(1) any party to the transaction voluntarily reports it; or
(2) a party unaffiliated with the transaction reports it; or
(3) forensic analysis of your financial activities finds discrepancies

Edit: Or (4) you discuss the transaction in a communication which is intercepted and forwarded to the IRS.

it is a static quantity, the federal reserve decides how much money is to be printed there by deciding how much its worthy. they print only so much money meaning there is only X amount of money out there.

same as under gold standard there is only X ammount of gold out there.

so if say theres only 500 dollars and jack has it all. jill makes an item and wants to sell it, the item doesn't create more wealth unless. fred prints more money.

so if theres 50 trillion us dollars in the world(just a guess.) it can and is divided amongst people. now if some guy makes a new tv, this doesn't change how many dollars are out there. he has to compete with other tv's for the same amount of dollars in existence.

so we could take the 50 trillion and divide it amongst the us population. minus that owned by other nations etc. but the rich love counting their billions and don't want to share it cause money kept in a safe never seen, never spent is better used then money spent into the economy by the poorer people. except of course when they build their billion dollar boats to sail to italy to compete with the other rich peoples billion dollar boats once a year.

such a huge waste of money mean while people starve to death.

also what do you think will happen when the welfare system is removed?
mass riots, rich dragged out into the streets and hung by mobs. stores, companies, factories burnt to the ground, house invasions of the middle class. wheres the military? ow over half of them rely on welfare to live. police, bit busy protecting their own families to protect you.

what is it like 30-40% of us citizens are on some kind of welfare. this nation will come to a halt and fall apart from the inside. you can't just cut millions of people off from food, shelter, etc and expect them to die without fighting back.

Hunter gatherers on average worked only 6 hours per day. The average person today works 8 hours. We've gone backwards.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/making-sens ... job-exist/

Alright well have welfare abolished and see what happens....make impoverished people even more desperate and see how well the 'infastructure' holds up, pretty sure you'd find society benefits from having welfare programs to help the poor get by. Also There are lots of people on welfare that also work, there are disabled people on disability the SSI form is basically welfare that do volunteer work, help friends and family members with things like chores and contribute to the world in various other ways aside from 'having a job'. But apparently having 'a job' is the only way to contribute.

Also if you are so opposed to tax funds going to welfare what do you suggest as an alternative? seems the alternative would be this ends up looking like a 3rd world country if not worse is that what you'd like? Now abolishing corporate welfare would probably help things, but of course all the billionares and trillionares who qualify for that earned every penny through hard work....of course none of them where born in a rich family and basically handed their lot in life

Last edited by Sweetleaf on 13 Nov 2014, 3:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

But does a one time unprofessional repair actually qualify as self employment? I am sure money made through self employment is taxable but it's questionable whether that would even be considered self employment.

I agree

It's no replacement for anarchy, but I believe it's preferable to what we have right now.

The law doesn't work that way - income doesn't qualify as taxable, it is taxable by default with some special shields set up to carve out exceptions. So you have to find a way to make it not-taxable, not just assume that it is not-taxable unless the law explicitly says otherwise.

That said, the IRS has much bigger fish to fry. They basically only care about those tax cheats big enough to have a perceptible economic impact, but small enough that they don't have the clout to make their cheating legal. And while a great many small-time cheats can cause as much if not more economic impact as a medium-big one, they are far less cost-effective to pursue. So it's probably not much more dangerous to your liberty than jaywalking is.

I am sure 'its preponderance for pretentious word salad when a few words would have said just as much ' could have been said in much fewer words.

What is not the way the law works? Also at the beginning of that internet page it says in most cases all income is taxable unless specifically excluded in the document...most cases doesn't mean all cases. Also there is a good chance that money would not even count as income...find a government source that states that such money would be considered income. If your mom sends you a birthday card with 50 bucks is that also taxable? Not so sure an unprofessional giving of money unrelated to any kind of employment between friends is actually income I'd need to see a source that defines it as such.