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Lukecash12
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11 Nov 2014, 5:47 am

auntblabby wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Also fourth paragraph to the bottom sounds pretty racist....unless I am misunderstanding. Also hamburger thinking isn't even an actual term, people are not hamburgers, this makes no sense.

I am pretty sure that is his way of calling us "meatheads" like archie bunker did his liberal son in "all in the family."


As I understood it, I think his analogy was meant to imply that some people are content with "hamburgers" instead of striving for "steak".


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11 Nov 2014, 2:19 pm

Inventor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Inventor wrote:
Rand was a writer The need to produce characters that show the traits you are trying to examine leads to overkill, wrong range of function, but a story larger than life that does sell.

Rand was an anti commie, who tried to whitewash capitalism.

It is not that simple, in any culture there are those who preserve the good, those who inovate the new, and those who leach, claim to represent humanity, and have plans to arrange the economy of others, for the greater good of all.

The problem is that is the extent of their plan. They often destroy what they claimed they would fix.

School bussing, did not raise the blacks to equality, it did destroy public education. It now exists as Teachers Unions, Public Employees that fail to turn out a quality product up to the standards set by a one room school house. Universities are a branch of government with a football team.

Social goals destroyed schools, and then wanted to do the same for business.

Government is supposed to do things that are needed but unprofitable. Some like Public Health and Education are to be provided at public expense, as they are common to all goals.

Hijacking them for Social Justice goals destroys the original purpose.

Horatio Alger stories were about looking about and finding people who were doing things you admired, then introducing yourself, as a fan of productive people. It came before "How To Win Friends and Influance People," was pitched to boys, but is the same story.

Seek the company of better people, those with goals, if you wish to improve your lot in life.

Understand that most want to complain, conive, do the least, and hold sucess in contempt. Be the other guy, one of the few that sees the good, makes the effort to understand how the person is benefiting the world, and deal with them as the best person they are.

While you can see them as good, there must be much more, that you would like to know. A positive view, get people talking about themselves, and you have made a friend who will give you an education that cannot be had otherwise.

Carnagie Steel was considered the meanest man that ever owned a steel mill, then he gave all of his money to build Public Libraries. If praised for producing the steel that made railroads, ships, buildings, and asked what was most needed, I am sure he would say, "An educated workforce." If a poor but earnest young man asked him what field he should study, I am sure his advice would be worth more than gold.

Tell him his mill needed a Union, he would not show you the door, but throw you out the window.

Tell him he had to hire blacks, women, homosexuals, and he would invite you upstairs, and throw you out a higher window.

If you can understand what people are trying to do in an adverse world, speak to the best self they have, you might learn something.

Ben Franklin wrote of a reserved man, hard to meet, and Franklin wanted his printing business. Successful people are often hard to meet. Franklin heard he had a book, when books were scarce, knowledge rare, and he went hat in hand and asked if he could read it. A desire to gain knowledge got him the print job, and made a friend.

The problem is there are few people, and many hamburgers. Hamburgers form mobs, have slogans, and demand something for nothing. Hamburgers have destroyed that which majority rule can destroy, and think it should also work on private property.

That factory that used to be in your town moved, and left no forwarding address.

Hamburgers are not good at math, when you run out the productive, you have to feed yourself, by taxing other hamburgers. All hamburgers are equal.

I am sure that a $20 minium wage, full health care, three weeks paid vacation would solve all your problems, except who is going to pay it.

I am sure with your degree in Social Justice and Gender Studies you will be able to create an economy just as all before you have. No one can tell you what to do, or owes you a living.


Not hamburgers, human beings. And yes, we are all of equal worth. Not everyone can be an Andrew Carnegie, or wants to be. Why should ordinary people be punished for being ordinary? What's wrong with legislation that makes sure someone who wants to work can, regardless of race, sex, or sexual preference?


Why should the ordinary be rewarded? Ordinary, IQ of 100, no idea of how business works, and a full time follower of Social Justice propaganda, that says employers are the Class Enemy and need to be destroyed.

Besides that, what majority rule can destroy, laws making it possible to sue for race, sex, or sexual preferance, when the issue was job performance. When these minority quotas came into force, there was a mass departure of jobs to places where work is work, and those hired are the best for making the company profitable.

The value of labor is set by the demand for labor. Social Justice Laws produced declining jobs, excess labor, deported good paying factory jobs, and cut the wages in Retail, Hospitality, and caused a boom in fast food and coffee shops.

The employment situation is because you got what you demanded.

From a business point of view it is the same as a local official saying if do not want trouble, put my wife and cousin on the payroll. At least they will not show up.

Retail is closing, because the better paying jobs and customers left, and laws that said you coud not hire workers that your customers could relate to.

All of the Denny's, Shoneys around here closed, because people did not want to eat where pierced, tattooed, unnatural hair colored, were doing the cooking and serving. The Rocky Horror Restaurant failed.

It has been noticed that the proposed solution to your self inflicted problem has been the suggestion to poison the war babies. They eat out a lot less.

From the war babies point of view, there should have been a lot more abortions.

So we have Class Division, the young from the old, the young from small business, none who are The 1%, and a rally of Leftists, sexual minorities, against traditional families.

On top of that, support for illegals to invade, and free blacks to destroy city after city, for freedom.

There is a lot wrong with hamburger thinking, they are dooming themselves to a life of poverty, and a country that is failing. As they refuse to recognize other points of view, and resort to name calling and slogans, no one wants to deal with them.

The People are no longer one.

You have made your bed, now lie in it.


People should not be punished for being ordinary. Again, we are all of the same worth.
And as far as legislation allowing an equal playing field for blacks, women, gays, etc, some how being bad - I think that has more to do with prejudice in your part of the country, and with the way whites there react to those perceived as "the other."
As for Denny's closing - they're going strong here. The only issue I have with that chain of restaurants is the price of the crap they serve there, and hardly who works there. Again, that's apparently a difference between your part of the country and mine, as here in the Pacific Northwest we like to think eccentricities are not only acceptable but are encouraged (David Lynch grew up in Spokane, Washington, after all).


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11 Nov 2014, 2:42 pm

^ Yeah sounds like a pretty stuck up place if a Dennys closed because customers don't like people with piercings, tattoos and dyed hair so much they refuse to eat food served by them. Lol those people would starve if the came to certain parts of Denver :twisted: and rightfully so.


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11 Nov 2014, 3:17 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
^ Yeah sounds like a pretty stuck up place if a Dennys closed because customers don't like people with piercings, tattoos and dyed hair so much they refuse to eat food served by them. Lol those people would starve if the came to certain parts of Denver :twisted: and rightfully so.


Denver sounds like a cool place. 8)


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11 Nov 2014, 3:45 pm

Lukecash12 wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Also fourth paragraph to the bottom sounds pretty racist....unless I am misunderstanding. Also hamburger thinking isn't even an actual term, people are not hamburgers, this makes no sense.

I am pretty sure that is his way of calling us "meatheads" like archie bunker did his liberal son in "all in the family."


As I understood it, I think his analogy was meant to imply that some people are content with "hamburgers" instead of striving for "steak".

steak is way above my pay grade, does no good to strive for anything when it is just out of reach forever.



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11 Nov 2014, 3:48 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
People should not be punished for being ordinary. Again, we are all of the same worth.
And as far as legislation allowing an equal playing field for blacks, women, gays, etc, some how being bad - I think that has more to do with prejudice in your part of the country, and with the way whites there react to those perceived as "the other."
As for Denny's closing - they're going strong here. The only issue I have with that chain of restaurants is the price of the crap they serve there, and hardly who works there. Again, that's apparently a difference between your part of the country and mine, as here in the Pacific Northwest we like to think eccentricities are not only acceptable but are encouraged (David Lynch grew up in Spokane, Washington, after all).

some people like the poster simply cannot abide diversity. they are stuck in the past. they will be in a world of hurt if they live long enough to experience being the minority [with people of color dominant] race for once. they will end up having to build castles with 'gator-filled moats to keep away the "riffraff."



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12 Nov 2014, 3:12 am

I am all in favor of diversity, just not being called an inbred redneck racist for expressing the views of my group.

We are in the middle. We are the majority, and get problems from above and below.

The problem from above is how wealth is treated. Most of the money is in the hands of very few, invested in Stocks, Bonds, and debt finance. They live off of interest and inflation.

The other large capital pool is Pensions. They do the same.

Both produce nothing and are sucking the life from the economy.

This Government/Wealth Axis writes the tax laws, they pay next to nothing.

Corporations are productive, do produce good jobs, and can chose the cream of the crop. They produce about 30% of the economy. A well run Corporation does not pay a lot in taxes, but the people they employ do. Most of the wealth created goes to shareholder value, untaxed, directly to the wealthy and Pension Funds. All the earnings go directly into higher share value. No tax unless you sell.

We in the middle are just something else to feed on. The rate on debt at interest is controlled from above, and few can afford to buy outright, a house, car, build a business, and are trapped giving 5% or more of our earnings for permission to live.

It is not a small thing, that house will cost three times what you paid for it. Food service tries to turn a 5% profit. Interest is giving all the profit to the credit machine. Almost all houses are Fanny Mae, Freddy Mac, government controlled, yet the profits go to the loan servicer. Losses are made up by the tax payers.

We feel the weight of this dead hand in everything we do.

What we do, try to live the best life possible, through our own labors, thoughts, and provide goods and services to everyone.

Small business is a culture that runs in families, they spent generations building a Brand, and a death in the family brings change, some of those who were to get stock want cash, the bank that was always there refuses credit, and someone like Bane Capital comes in and forces a sale, then loots the retirement fund, closes the business, fires half the town, and that Brand is now on a Chinese product.

We are targeted from above, and our love for our community does not fit in their business plan. The company may be sold for less that the year's payroll.

There are economic cycles, loose credit for years brings in the savings of many to buy a house, start a business, then credit suddenly drys up, everything goes to foreclosure, and a year later the market is booming. These are controlled economic cycles, and each time, a claw rakes in the hard earned savings of the people.

Government continues to grow, wants to involve it's self in social issues, and ride around in tanks with automatic weapons. Government fields a third of the vote, so they only need a few more to control it all.

The middle, pays more taxes than corporations, or the trillions in Capital. Half of people pay nothing, so the burden is on people making $20,000 to $100,000. Inome tax, Federal and State, and Social Security. Above $127,000 no more Social Security, 15.7% bonus! More Capital Gains, investment income.

Half of government spending goes to war, they other half to Social Security. Other classes are minor, food stamps is part of the farm bill. Land ownership is subsidised. It is food production Corporation Welfare. Food stamps is a minor part of the Farm Bill.

Congress owns military spending, they are also exempt from insider trading laws. Congress their friends and family get very rich.

While the Constitution calls for the Government to Provide for The Health, Education and Wefare of The People, Congress puts that on the middle, who are given Mandates to provide for education and employment for all. Health Care was profitable, so that was given to Insurance Companies.

The middle does provide 90% of the private employment. which is now a Government Social Welfare Program.

So the middle supports both the top and bottom, but the middle will not hold, the bleeding continues, less companies, less jobs, more restrictions, paperwork, and it shows in the decay of our cities, falling bridges, and a public perception that they are entitled to equal results, without equal effort.

The south gave schools and towns to the blacks, they trashed them. Without welfare and food stamps they would starve. A few years back those towns had full employment. They had a business structure that worked. The south is about half black, we lived and worked together.

Legislation making people equal does not work, it drove up apart.

I am old, when I speak with old black people we agree, today is not as good as it was. We are farther apart, we have less in common, and we are not working together. I complain about white youth, they complain about black youth.

Seperate but equal worked for us, now we are just seperate. Young black men die like soldiers in Viet Nam, 400 a year in New Orleans, and it is the same everywhere. Many more are in prison, it is hard on the black community. It was not like that before, you had to kill or rob to go to prison, and they did not kill each other.

Illegal Mexicans are taking the jobs blacks used to have. Roofing, Brickwork, and unemployed whites have discovered cutting grass. A high School diploma is a fifth grade education, only football and basketball lead to higher education. As they did not get a strong foundation, reading, math, they have problems later.

The hope of the Civil Rights movement was to move up in the world. Southern whites shared that goal.
Whites employed them, taught them useful skills, and made them members of our shared community.

That is mostly gone now, replaced by easy to evade laws.

Blacks and Native Americans were second class by law, it was wrong, something to make right.

Then we got the Viet Nam War, Womens Movements, and Gay Rights, and the legally opressed were left behind again.

The obligation of government is to all the people, and they have failed. It is one political party, that plays groups against each other. They are still sucking all the wealth out of the country, and into their bank accounts.

Taxing all income at a single rate, all personal income subject to Social Security, we can pay off the national debt and rebuild this country.

All it takes is to look past our differances and see what we have in common.

We can afford a first class Health Eduction and Welfare, for all citizens.

Education takes generations, Culture also, we must join as one.

Prejudice against those who would preserve our values, culture, customs, and economy, and develop them, will exclude you from the future. We accept Civil Rights, homosexual marrage, but are still called inbred racists. You got what you wanted, so stop the fighting and name calling.

With equal rights come equal obligations.

Now, can you love Conservtives as much as you love homosexuals?



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12 Nov 2014, 11:05 am

Inventor wrote:
I am all in favor of diversity, just not being called an inbred redneck racist for expressing the views of my group.

We are in the middle. We are the majority, and get problems from above and below.

The problem from above is how wealth is treated. Most of the money is in the hands of very few, invested in Stocks, Bonds, and debt finance. They live off of interest and inflation.

The other large capital pool is Pensions. They do the same.

Both produce nothing and are sucking the life from the economy.

This Government/Wealth Axis writes the tax laws, they pay next to nothing.

Corporations are productive, do produce good jobs, and can chose the cream of the crop. They produce about 30% of the economy. A well run Corporation does not pay a lot in taxes, but the people they employ do. Most of the wealth created goes to shareholder value, untaxed, directly to the wealthy and Pension Funds. All the earnings go directly into higher share value. No tax unless you sell.

We in the middle are just something else to feed on. The rate on debt at interest is controlled from above, and few can afford to buy outright, a house, car, build a business, and are trapped giving 5% or more of our earnings for permission to live.

It is not a small thing, that house will cost three times what you paid for it. Food service tries to turn a 5% profit. Interest is giving all the profit to the credit machine. Almost all houses are Fanny Mae, Freddy Mac, government controlled, yet the profits go to the loan servicer. Losses are made up by the tax payers.

We feel the weight of this dead hand in everything we do.

What we do, try to live the best life possible, through our own labors, thoughts, and provide goods and services to everyone.

Small business is a culture that runs in families, they spent generations building a Brand, and a death in the family brings change, some of those who were to get stock want cash, the bank that was always there refuses credit, and someone like Bane Capital comes in and forces a sale, then loots the retirement fund, closes the business, fires half the town, and that Brand is now on a Chinese product.

We are targeted from above, and our love for our community does not fit in their business plan. The company may be sold for less that the year's payroll.

There are economic cycles, loose credit for years brings in the savings of many to buy a house, start a business, then credit suddenly drys up, everything goes to foreclosure, and a year later the market is booming. These are controlled economic cycles, and each time, a claw rakes in the hard earned savings of the people.

Government continues to grow, wants to involve it's self in social issues, and ride around in tanks with automatic weapons. Government fields a third of the vote, so they only need a few more to control it all.

The middle, pays more taxes than corporations, or the trillions in Capital. Half of people pay nothing, so the burden is on people making $20,000 to $100,000. Inome tax, Federal and State, and Social Security. Above $127,000 no more Social Security, 15.7% bonus! More Capital Gains, investment income.

Half of government spending goes to war, they other half to Social Security. Other classes are minor, food stamps is part of the farm bill. Land ownership is subsidised. It is food production Corporation Welfare. Food stamps is a minor part of the Farm Bill.

Congress owns military spending, they are also exempt from insider trading laws. Congress their friends and family get very rich.

While the Constitution calls for the Government to Provide for The Health, Education and Wefare of The People, Congress puts that on the middle, who are given Mandates to provide for education and employment for all. Health Care was profitable, so that was given to Insurance Companies.

The middle does provide 90% of the private employment. which is now a Government Social Welfare Program.

So the middle supports both the top and bottom, but the middle will not hold, the bleeding continues, less companies, less jobs, more restrictions, paperwork, and it shows in the decay of our cities, falling bridges, and a public perception that they are entitled to equal results, without equal effort.

The south gave schools and towns to the blacks, they trashed them. Without welfare and food stamps they would starve. A few years back those towns had full employment. They had a business structure that worked. The south is about half black, we lived and worked together.

Legislation making people equal does not work, it drove up apart.

I am old, when I speak with old black people we agree, today is not as good as it was. We are farther apart, we have less in common, and we are not working together. I complain about white youth, they complain about black youth.

Seperate but equal worked for us, now we are just seperate. Young black men die like soldiers in Viet Nam, 400 a year in New Orleans, and it is the same everywhere. Many more are in prison, it is hard on the black community. It was not like that before, you had to kill or rob to go to prison, and they did not kill each other.

Illegal Mexicans are taking the jobs blacks used to have. Roofing, Brickwork, and unemployed whites have discovered cutting grass. A high School diploma is a fifth grade education, only football and basketball lead to higher education. As they did not get a strong foundation, reading, math, they have problems later.

The hope of the Civil Rights movement was to move up in the world. Southern whites shared that goal.
Whites employed them, taught them useful skills, and made them members of our shared community.

That is mostly gone now, replaced by easy to evade laws.

Blacks and Native Americans were second class by law, it was wrong, something to make right.

Then we got the Viet Nam War, Womens Movements, and Gay Rights, and the legally opressed were left behind again.

The obligation of government is to all the people, and they have failed. It is one political party, that plays groups against each other. They are still sucking all the wealth out of the country, and into their bank accounts.

Taxing all income at a single rate, all personal income subject to Social Security, we can pay off the national debt and rebuild this country.

All it takes is to look past our differances and see what we have in common.

We can afford a first class Health Eduction and Welfare, for all citizens.

Education takes generations, Culture also, we must join as one.

Prejudice against those who would preserve our values, culture, customs, and economy, and develop them, will exclude you from the future. We accept Civil Rights, homosexual marrage, but are still called inbred racists. You got what you wanted, so stop the fighting and name calling.

With equal rights come equal obligations.

Now, can you love Conservtives as much as you love homosexuals?


I doubt you are an inbred redneck, however with the comment you wrote about 'freeing the blacks to destroy city after city' certainly came off as racist, if you do not feel that comment implied some racism on you're part please elaborate on what you mean....but in a clear way.

Also with what you say of the wealthy vs. the middle class, it sounds like the anger should be directed at the wealthy sitting on most of the wealth while those in the middle are being disproportionately taxed, yet many just choose to resent the poor which is good for the wealthy but bad for both the middle class and the poor....So the wealthy and the politicians in their pockets hope people in the middle focus their resentment towards the poor, that way eventually the poor can be eliminated in a not so humane way, and then once the poor are gone guess who they'll go after next....you think they'll welcome middle class people such as yourself to join their elite class based on your work ethic? Well they won't because you're also an obstacle standing in front of them and the wealth they are greedy for.

Also not sure that 90% of private employment is a government social welfare program, that does not really make sense....pretty sure social welfare does not account for most jobs since much of the time when I go to deal with my SSI and food stamps the offices seem under-staffed if anything. And everyone complains about the youth that is the future.....now I see pleanty of flaws in people around my age group and younger, but there are plenty of intelligent youths and plenty who challenge a lot of the issues in this society and are the ones who would be willing to push for positive changes to society. Also I am not so sure that 'back in the day' was actually better....I think sometimes people who get sentimental about 'back in the day' forget all the negatives going on. Of course things aren't great today but in some ways they are, in some ways past times may have been better but there are major problems in every decade.

Also seperate but equal is freaking disgusting.....if you cannot co-exist with people because they look different then you are the one with the problem, not the people who look different. Of course in certain contexts people prefer to be in whatever group they are most comfortable with, but having laws to actually separate things by race is going too far. I'd feel weird if they enacted white bars, black bars, and hispanic bars that would be awkward much better if you can go into any bar regardless of what color you are. Seperate but equal legislation does nothing to 'bring people together' Stop buying propaganda.

But I guess those black people should just be grateful to the worship worthy whites? Because after all if it wasn't for us white folk they'd be worse off :roll: how ignorant. You say political parties play groups against each other, and you eat up all the crap and spew it as well....don't you see you're expressing some of the very veiws that help keep people divided. You say the government should serve all the people while defending racist policies and views. How can we join as one culture when there are individuals like you who very much support racial division and clearly have disdain for homosexuals? Also what values, customs, culture? Our disgusting pop culture? Values such as seperate but equal which you defended? And customs such as looking down your nose at people that are different from you? while claiming we all need to become a single community? Also does not sound like you are all that accepting of civil rights or homosexual marriage sounds like you are rather bitter about those things actually. Yet I have not seen anyone here call you an inbred racist.....though you do seem to have rather racist views.


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Kraichgauer
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12 Nov 2014, 12:17 pm

Inventor wrote:
I am all in favor of diversity, just not being called an inbred redneck racist for expressing the views of my group.

We are in the middle. We are the majority, and get problems from above and below.

The problem from above is how wealth is treated. Most of the money is in the hands of very few, invested in Stocks, Bonds, and debt finance. They live off of interest and inflation.

The other large capital pool is Pensions. They do the same.

Both produce nothing and are sucking the life from the economy.

This Government/Wealth Axis writes the tax laws, they pay next to nothing.

Corporations are productive, do produce good jobs, and can chose the cream of the crop. They produce about 30% of the economy. A well run Corporation does not pay a lot in taxes, but the people they employ do. Most of the wealth created goes to shareholder value, untaxed, directly to the wealthy and Pension Funds. All the earnings go directly into higher share value. No tax unless you sell.

We in the middle are just something else to feed on. The rate on debt at interest is controlled from above, and few can afford to buy outright, a house, car, build a business, and are trapped giving 5% or more of our earnings for permission to live.

It is not a small thing, that house will cost three times what you paid for it. Food service tries to turn a 5% profit. Interest is giving all the profit to the credit machine. Almost all houses are Fanny Mae, Freddy Mac, government controlled, yet the profits go to the loan servicer. Losses are made up by the tax payers.

We feel the weight of this dead hand in everything we do.

What we do, try to live the best life possible, through our own labors, thoughts, and provide goods and services to everyone.

Small business is a culture that runs in families, they spent generations building a Brand, and a death in the family brings change, some of those who were to get stock want cash, the bank that was always there refuses credit, and someone like Bane Capital comes in and forces a sale, then loots the retirement fund, closes the business, fires half the town, and that Brand is now on a Chinese product.

We are targeted from above, and our love for our community does not fit in their business plan. The company may be sold for less that the year's payroll.

There are economic cycles, loose credit for years brings in the savings of many to buy a house, start a business, then credit suddenly drys up, everything goes to foreclosure, and a year later the market is booming. These are controlled economic cycles, and each time, a claw rakes in the hard earned savings of the people.

Government continues to grow, wants to involve it's self in social issues, and ride around in tanks with automatic weapons. Government fields a third of the vote, so they only need a few more to control it all.

The middle, pays more taxes than corporations, or the trillions in Capital. Half of people pay nothing, so the burden is on people making $20,000 to $100,000. Inome tax, Federal and State, and Social Security. Above $127,000 no more Social Security, 15.7% bonus! More Capital Gains, investment income.

Half of government spending goes to war, they other half to Social Security. Other classes are minor, food stamps is part of the farm bill. Land ownership is subsidised. It is food production Corporation Welfare. Food stamps is a minor part of the Farm Bill.

Congress owns military spending, they are also exempt from insider trading laws. Congress their friends and family get very rich.

While the Constitution calls for the Government to Provide for The Health, Education and Wefare of The People, Congress puts that on the middle, who are given Mandates to provide for education and employment for all. Health Care was profitable, so that was given to Insurance Companies.

The middle does provide 90% of the private employment. which is now a Government Social Welfare Program.

So the middle supports both the top and bottom, but the middle will not hold, the bleeding continues, less companies, less jobs, more restrictions, paperwork, and it shows in the decay of our cities, falling bridges, and a public perception that they are entitled to equal results, without equal effort.

The south gave schools and towns to the blacks, they trashed them. Without welfare and food stamps they would starve. A few years back those towns had full employment. They had a business structure that worked. The south is about half black, we lived and worked together.

Legislation making people equal does not work, it drove up apart.

I am old, when I speak with old black people we agree, today is not as good as it was. We are farther apart, we have less in common, and we are not working together. I complain about white youth, they complain about black youth.

Seperate but equal worked for us, now we are just seperate. Young black men die like soldiers in Viet Nam, 400 a year in New Orleans, and it is the same everywhere. Many more are in prison, it is hard on the black community. It was not like that before, you had to kill or rob to go to prison, and they did not kill each other.

Illegal Mexicans are taking the jobs blacks used to have. Roofing, Brickwork, and unemployed whites have discovered cutting grass. A high School diploma is a fifth grade education, only football and basketball lead to higher education. As they did not get a strong foundation, reading, math, they have problems later.

The hope of the Civil Rights movement was to move up in the world. Southern whites shared that goal.
Whites employed them, taught them useful skills, and made them members of our shared community.

That is mostly gone now, replaced by easy to evade laws.

Blacks and Native Americans were second class by law, it was wrong, something to make right.

Then we got the Viet Nam War, Womens Movements, and Gay Rights, and the legally opressed were left behind again.

The obligation of government is to all the people, and they have failed. It is one political party, that plays groups against each other. They are still sucking all the wealth out of the country, and into their bank accounts.

Taxing all income at a single rate, all personal income subject to Social Security, we can pay off the national debt and rebuild this country.

All it takes is to look past our differances and see what we have in common.

We can afford a first class Health Eduction and Welfare, for all citizens.

Education takes generations, Culture also, we must join as one.

Prejudice against those who would preserve our values, culture, customs, and economy, and develop them, will exclude you from the future. We accept Civil Rights, homosexual marrage, but are still called inbred racists. You got what you wanted, so stop the fighting and name calling.

With equal rights come equal obligations.

Now, can you love Conservtives as much as you love homosexuals?


I think Sweetleaf more than made most of the points I was going to. But I will add that I doubt separate but equal was all that great, as if anything, it was anything but equal. All facilities and services afforded to blacks were definitely inferior and a national disgrace. And blacks and whites working together? More likely, whites gave the orders and blacks followed them, performing menial or subservient labor. When were blacks in those days ever put in authority over whites? When were they ever actually equal? And as far as blacks being happier in those days: as blacks were kept in an inferior status by means of terror (KKK and such) and economic oppression (White Citizen's Council, today the Conservative Citizen's Council), I very much have to take what you reported about older blacks yearning for the good old days with a grain of salt. Older people are always missing the days when kids were more respectful and better behaved, but that hardly means those remembrances are accurate. And as for blacks and whites being even further apart today - well, that's what you get when you have lifetimes of suppressed rage felt by formerly oppressed blacks in the face of whites still in denial.
And as much as I love homosexuals? Think more of it as me loving civil liberties for oppressed peoples.


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12 Nov 2014, 3:02 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

Also seperate but equal is freaking disgusting.....if you cannot co-exist with people because they look different then you are the one with the problem, not the people who look different.


He is saying that is how we live now.

White people flee from black neighborhoods. Around Detroit, you have so many areas that are "ghettoized" by this process. I live in a city that is 95% white, 2% Asian, 1.8% Black, and we very little crime. However, the nearby black cities that have over say 30% black people - like Detroit - have rampant crime and blight.

I pointed out earlier that I helped my aunt move out of Redford, MI which is now 29% black, and becoming ghettoized, this process will accelerate and the city will fall into a ghetto. Good homes will be ruined, businesses abandoned, blight, high crime ...

White liberals don't move to these cities, white liberals flee black cities. That is why conservatives will point out the liberal sanctimony of telling others that should live among "different" people when they themselves would do no such thing.



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12 Nov 2014, 4:44 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:

Also seperate but equal is freaking disgusting.....if you cannot co-exist with people because they look different then you are the one with the problem, not the people who look different.


He is saying that is how we live now.

White people flee from black neighborhoods. Around Detroit, you have so many areas that are "ghettoized" by this process. I live in a city that is 95% white, 2% Asian, 1.8% Black, and we very little crime. However, the nearby black cities that have over say 30% black people - like Detroit - have rampant crime and blight.

I pointed out earlier that I helped my aunt move out of Redford, MI which is now 29% black, and becoming ghettoized, this process will accelerate and the city will fall into a ghetto. Good homes will be ruined, businesses abandoned, blight, high crime ...

White liberals don't move to these cities, white liberals flee black cities. That is why conservatives will point out the liberal sanctimony of telling others that should live among "different" people when they themselves would do no such thing.


And at one time, Anglo-Americans used to say the exact same thing about old world immigrants such as Irish Catholics, Italians, and eastern European Jews who used to fill up the inner cities. They were accused of bringing crime and poverty with them. The only difference is, as they were white, they were eventually accepted into the mainstream American middle class, which largely has been denied to blacks.
And if liberals avoid high crime areas, it's because they're high crime, not because of the color of the people living there.


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12 Nov 2014, 4:56 pm

our practical choices in this gridlocked nation seem to be between a stinking status quo and something far far worse [outright fascism].



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12 Nov 2014, 7:02 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:

Also seperate but equal is freaking disgusting.....if you cannot co-exist with people because they look different then you are the one with the problem, not the people who look different.


He is saying that is how we live now.

White people flee from black neighborhoods. Around Detroit, you have so many areas that are "ghettoized" by this process. I live in a city that is 95% white, 2% Asian, 1.8% Black, and we very little crime. However, the nearby black cities that have over say 30% black people - like Detroit - have rampant crime and blight.

I pointed out earlier that I helped my aunt move out of Redford, MI which is now 29% black, and becoming ghettoized, this process will accelerate and the city will fall into a ghetto. Good homes will be ruined, businesses abandoned, blight, high crime ...

White liberals don't move to these cities, white liberals flee black cities. That is why conservatives will point out the liberal sanctimony of telling others that should live among "different" people when they themselves would do no such thing.


He said:
Quote:
Seperate but equal worked for us, now we are just seperate.


The phrase 'separate but equal worked for us' seems to imply support of separate but equal on the part of the person who says it.

Detriot is a very poor area for one, also I am not sure if this has taken place in detroit, but there have been cases where our own government will strategically introduce addictive drugs like crack into the population of certain areas soley so people can negatively stereotype minorities as 'the problem' and do more thinking on the topic. Sometimes things are not exactly as they appear. So pretty sure the reason for the state of Detroit isn't 'black people'.

Also your comparison of the city you live in to surrounding ones, does a good job of illustrating that racism is alive and well. Are you seriously suggesting the decline of cities is directly related to the % of black people? So does that mean if they just took all the black people out of Redford MI it will become less ghetto like it was before? doubtful. This sounds just like the stuff neo-nazis in the movie American History X said to defend their racist behavior and ideology.

I could be described as a white liberal, and I wouldn't 'flee' a city because of black people....but in my part of the country we don't have black cities and white cities. I live in denver and its very racially diverse you'd be horrified if you came here....I don't see what is scary about having to live around people of different races. Where did you get that people with liberal views refuse to live around 'different' people...anyways, especially when I am an example of one that lives in a racially diverse area and is not bothered by it, I have no desire to move to a 'whiter' area.


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12 Nov 2014, 8:16 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Are you seriously suggesting the decline of cities is directly related to the % of black?


Yes, it is how Detroit became Detroit. Poverty moved in, and wealth moved out. It is documented on wikipedia as an example of "white flight". The % of blacks increased as whites move away, so yes, the decline is directly related to increase in % of poor black people.

Sweetleaf wrote:
So does that mean if they just took all the black people out of Redford MI it will become less ghetto like it was before? doubtful. This sounds just like the stuff neo-nazis in the movie American History X said to defend their racist behavior and ideology.


Yes, this has happened to many cities. The blight and staggering crime rates were not like this when white people lived there. So, yes, Redford will slowly become a ghetto, and follow the path of many other cities that surround Detroit. This is like science class and you perform an experiment ten times with the same result, guess what the eleventh outcome will be ?? Of course, the same result.

Michigan Govenor, Rick Synder has a plan to make Detroit less black by immigrating 50,000 people with graduate degrees (i.e., create a non-black tax base for the city). However, no progress so far.

Sweetleaf wrote:
I could be described as a white liberal, and I wouldn't 'flee' a city because of black people....but in my part of the country we don't have black cities and white cities. I live in denver and its very racially diverse you'd be horrified if you came here....I don't see what is scary about having to live around people of different races. Where did you get that people with liberal views refuse to live around 'different' people...anyways, especially when I am an example of one that lives in a racially diverse area and is not bothered by it, I have no desire to move to a 'whiter' area.


Your life is endangered for being white - is the scare you should have. I was told this by a black coworker when I lived in DC, when he told me , "I know some inexpensive areas, however ....". I was told this by black people in Detroit. I experienced this by black kids in New Jersey who were intimidating people at a bus stop by saying, "I hate whites. Let's do ..... to these white people".



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13 Nov 2014, 3:47 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Are you seriously suggesting the decline of cities is directly related to the % of black?


Yes, it is how Detroit became Detroit. Poverty moved in, and wealth moved out. It is documented on wikipedia as an example of "white flight". The % of blacks increased as whites move away, so yes, the decline is directly related to increase in % of poor black people.

Sweetleaf wrote:
So does that mean if they just took all the black people out of Redford MI it will become less ghetto like it was before? doubtful. This sounds just like the stuff neo-nazis in the movie American History X said to defend their racist behavior and ideology.


Yes, this has happened to many cities. The blight and staggering crime rates were not like this when white people lived there. So, yes, Redford will slowly become a ghetto, and follow the path of many other cities that surround Detroit. This is like science class and you perform an experiment ten times with the same result, guess what the eleventh outcome will be ?? Of course, the same result.

Michigan Govenor, Rick Synder has a plan to make Detroit less black by immigrating 50,000 people with graduate degrees (i.e., create a non-black tax base for the city). However, no progress so far.

Sweetleaf wrote:
I could be described as a white liberal, and I wouldn't 'flee' a city because of black people....but in my part of the country we don't have black cities and white cities. I live in denver and its very racially diverse you'd be horrified if you came here....I don't see what is scary about having to live around people of different races. Where did you get that people with liberal views refuse to live around 'different' people...anyways, especially when I am an example of one that lives in a racially diverse area and is not bothered by it, I have no desire to move to a 'whiter' area.


Your life is endangered for being white - is the scare you should have. I was told this by a black coworker when I lived in DC, when he told me , "I know some inexpensive areas, however ....". I was told this by black people in Detroit. I experienced this by black kids in New Jersey who were intimidating people at a bus stop by saying, "I hate whites. Let's do ..... to these white people".


-And by poverty you mean 'black people' and probably other minorities correct? and by 'wealth' you mean 'white people' if I am understanding this correctly. Also perhaps it is related to the situations the black people are in, or that people of minorities actually do have quite a few disadvantages some of them due to certain things that have occurred in history. Also if it was a 'wealth' filled area up until the black people came who is it that allowed them to move in and purchase property? :roll:

Also I am sure poor areas with a majority of white people are probably just as 'ghetto' as poor areas with a majority of black people or any other color of person. But you really think the color of skin people have determines the quality of person and that white people are just inherently better people and yet you aren't racist at all :roll:

-And now there is no such thing as black people with graduate degrees.....lol and why the hell would educated college graduates want to move to such a racist place? Pretty sure when checking off the boxes to be approved to be 'immigrated to the city' even many of the white graduates would be quite turned off if they know the screening process is meant to specifically screen out anyone who's black based on false notions that skin color determines the quality of person someone is.

-Also my life is not in danger for being white.....not in this state, also if the attitudes you are portraying are common among white people where you live I can sort of see why some of the black population is angry enough to say that.

This is all a load of garbage not sure why I bothered acknowledging it with a response really.


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13 Nov 2014, 6:39 am

Sweetleaf wrote:

-And by poverty you mean 'black people' and probably other minorities correct?


No as was pointed out with racial integration in Detroit ...

In Milliken v. Bradley (1974), the dissenting Justice William Douglas observed, "The inner core of Detroit is now rather solidly black; and the blacks, we know, in many instances are likely to be poorer."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_flight

Sweetleaf wrote:
and by 'wealth' you mean 'white people' if I am understanding this correctly.


Yes, since those were the ones with wealth.

Sweetleaf wrote:
Also perhaps it is related to the situations the black people are in, or that people of minorities actually do have quite a few disadvantages some of them due to certain things that have occurred in history. Also if it was a 'wealth' filled area up until the black people came who is it that allowed them to move in and purchase property? :roll:


The courts forced integration, and slaves migrated to Detroit. The white people rioted against this integration, but ultimately "voted with their feet" by fleeing.

Sweetleaf wrote:
Also I am sure poor areas with a majority of white people are probably just as 'ghetto' as poor areas with a majority of black people or any other color of person. But you really think the color of skin people have determines the quality of person and that white people are just inherently better people and yet you aren't racist at all :roll:


No. However, I am not dumb enough to live in a future ghetto. So, I think "white flight" and "black flight" are justified.

Sweetleaf wrote:
-And now there is no such thing as black people with graduate degrees.....lol and why the hell would educated college graduates want to move to such a racist place?


They will be given citizenship if they move there, yes, otherwise, of course, they would not live there. Well, there hundreds of thousands of black people in Detroit, yet, the planned solution is to bring in people outside the country.

Sweetleaf wrote:
This is all a load of garbage not sure why I bothered acknowledging it with a response really.


This is your typical response. What is garbage? The physical existence of ghettos? The creation of ghettos? The governor's plan (easy to find on google)? Or what you say because you don't know anything ?



Last edited by LoveNotHate on 13 Nov 2014, 6:51 am, edited 1 time in total.