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GOP is against critical thinking

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auntblabby
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26 Nov 2014, 1:01 am

American wrote:
How can anyone function in modern society when almost everything except breathing requires a photo ID?

the middle and upper classes have no trouble. they are in their element with bureaucracy and jumping through [what for them are] low hoops that for working people are mostly insurmountable barriers to public participation. that is the whole point of the way they have made things, to lock out what they see as "useless eaters" from participating in America.



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26 Nov 2014, 1:23 am

auntblabby wrote:
the middle and upper classes have no trouble. they are in their element with bureaucracy and jumping through [what for them are] low hoops that for working people are mostly insurmountable barriers to public participation. that is the whole point of the way they have made things, to lock out what they see as "useless eaters" from participating in America.


I don't care what class you are, how do you not have an ID? How would you function? Drive? Get welfare? Go into a courthouse? Write a check? Get a job? How many people do none of those things ever?



auntblabby
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26 Nov 2014, 1:30 am

American wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
the middle and upper classes have no trouble. they are in their element with bureaucracy and jumping through [what for them are] low hoops that for working people are mostly insurmountable barriers to public participation. that is the whole point of the way they have made things, to lock out what they see as "useless eaters" from participating in America.


I don't care what class you are, how do you not have an ID? How would you function? Drive? Get welfare? Go into a courthouse? Write a check? Get a job? How many people do none of those things ever?

not everybody can live in major population centers. not everyone can or should drive, assuming otherwise is ableism. same for job, check et al. you think only ABLE [in your estimation] people should be voting. fine. I can't contest your bourgeoisie sensibility, it's nominally a free country in that respect, so far- but I do find it insulting when you deny that is what you are about.



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26 Nov 2014, 1:34 am

auntblabby wrote:
not everybody can live in major population centers. not everyone can or should drive, assuming otherwise is ableism. same for job, check et al. you think only ABLE [in your estimation] people should be voting. fine. I can't contest your bourgeoisie sensibility, it's nominally a free country in that respect, so far- but I do find it insulting when you deny that is what you are about.


So how does somebody not work AND not get welfare? I don't get it.



auntblabby
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26 Nov 2014, 1:38 am

American wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
not everybody can live in major population centers. not everyone can or should drive, assuming otherwise is ableism. same for job, check et al. you think only ABLE [in your estimation] people should be voting. fine. I can't contest your bourgeoisie sensibility, it's nominally a free country in that respect, so far- but I do find it insulting when you deny that is what you are about.


So how does somebody not work AND not get welfare? I don't get it.

that is me. I can't work because I'm a cripple. but [thanks to Obama] I finally have health care, but I don't get a welfare bennie. I live in poverty in a tin can out in the woods. I survive. no cable. no highspeed internet. am lucky I inherited a 17 year old Honda. luckily I can [nominally] drive but I can't drive in complex places such as cities. living out in the sticks is all I can do. if I lived in places like texas I'd be SOL. if I were old, chances are I'd fail a driving exam and would be stuck in place and lack required ID to vote in places such as texas. THOSE are many of the people getting screwed out of their birthright as American citizens in those places that claim such people are "frauds."



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26 Nov 2014, 1:45 am

auntblabby wrote:
that is me. I can't work because I'm a cripple. but [thanks to Obama] I finally have health care, but I don't get a welfare bennie. I live in poverty in a tin can out in the woods. I survive. no cable. no highspeed internet. am lucky I inherited a 17 year old Honda. luckily I can [nominally] drive but I can't drive in complex places such as cities. living out in the sticks is all I can do. if I lived in places like texas I'd be SOL. if I were old, chances are I'd fail a driving exam and would be stuck in place and lack required ID to vote in places such as texas. THOSE are many of the people getting screwed out of their birthright as American citizens in those places that claim such people are "frauds."


So you drive but don't have a driver's license? How do you live in a tin can? What does that mean?



auntblabby
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26 Nov 2014, 1:48 am

American wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
that is me. I can't work because I'm a cripple. but [thanks to Obama] I finally have health care, but I don't get a welfare bennie. I live in poverty in a tin can out in the woods. I survive. no cable. no highspeed internet. am lucky I inherited a 17 year old Honda. luckily I can [nominally] drive but I can't drive in complex places such as cities. living out in the sticks is all I can do. if I lived in places like texas I'd be SOL. if I were old, chances are I'd fail a driving exam and would be stuck in place and lack required ID to vote in places such as texas. THOSE are many of the people getting screwed out of their birthright as American citizens in those places that claim such people are "frauds."


So you drive but don't have a driver's license? How do you live in a tin can? What does that mean?

please reread what I wrote. I said I drive [nominally] but cannot handle driving in cities [too complicated for me]. I have to have somebody drive me to seattle when I have to be there. I get lost easily. major blood loss from bad accident several years back messed up my 'lytes and my brain ain't what it was [even worse]. a "tin can" is slang for the old-fashioned aluminum body or tin mobile home, the kind with little wheels that you tow to a plot and set it down in place.



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26 Nov 2014, 1:58 am

auntblabby wrote:
please reread what I wrote. I said I drive [nominally] but cannot handle driving in cities [too complicated for me]. I have to have somebody drive me to seattle when I have to be there. I get lost easily. major blood loss from bad accident several years back messed up my 'lytes and my brain ain't what it was [even worse]. a "tin can" is slang for the old-fashioned aluminum body or tin mobile home, the kind with little wheels that you tow to a plot and set it down in place.


Oh, I was thinking of a literal tin can. But I know what you mean now. Do you have a driver's license? Don't you need one even if you only drive a little bit?



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26 Nov 2014, 2:04 am

American wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
please reread what I wrote. I said I drive [nominally] but cannot handle driving in cities [too complicated for me]. I have to have somebody drive me to seattle when I have to be there. I get lost easily. major blood loss from bad accident several years back messed up my 'lytes and my brain ain't what it was [even worse]. a "tin can" is slang for the old-fashioned aluminum body or tin mobile home, the kind with little wheels that you tow to a plot and set it down in place.


Oh, I was thinking of a literal tin can. But I know what you mean now. Do you have a driver's license? Don't you need one even if you only drive a little bit?

I have a DL, have had once since the 70s. [I'm old]. but people in my type of circumstance sans DL are SOL, in terms of meeting the requirements for voting in the states with voting restrictions in place nominally to prevent "voter fraud." my late father was screwed when he lost his DL due to disability. I had to drive him everywhere. if he had lived in states like texas he would also have been effectively prevented from voting. also people who, due to poverty, cannot hold onto a steady residence, they have to move every few months, those people are disenfranchised by such laws. there but for the grace of god go I.



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26 Nov 2014, 5:26 pm

auntblabby wrote:
my late father was screwed when he lost his DL due to disability. I had to drive him everywhere. if he had lived in states like texas he would also have been effectively prevented from voting.


Don't they take state ID cards?



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26 Nov 2014, 5:58 pm

starkid wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
my late father was screwed when he lost his DL due to disability. I had to drive him everywhere. if he had lived in states like texas he would also have been effectively prevented from voting.


Don't they take state ID cards?


Of course they do. Some state voting ID laws allow someone to get a free voter ID. But apparently there are some people in our society who just can't get a photo ID. When you think of all of the things you need a photo ID for, it seems unimaginable that anyone could live in society without one. No job. No welfare. No driving. No access to federal courts. No flying. No train riding. And the list goes on.



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26 Nov 2014, 6:02 pm

starkid wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
my late father was screwed when he lost his DL due to disability. I had to drive him everywhere. if he had lived in states like texas he would also have been effectively prevented from voting.


Don't they take state ID cards?

Here is a list of the acceptable forms of photo ID:
•Texas driver license issued by the Texas Department of Public Safety (DPS)
•Texas Election Identification Certificate issued by DPS
•Texas personal identification card issued by DPS
•Texas concealed handgun license issued by DPS
•United States military identification card containing the person’s photograph
•United States citizenship certificate containing the person’s photograph
•United States passport

the problem is, that a lot of folks are housebound and can't go too far beyond their neighborhoods, and texas et al makes it hard for those people to make it to one of the places listed to obtain said ID cards, due to limited office hours and locations. the hardship represents [among other voting barriers] a de facto poll tax and as such goes at least against the spirit of the voting rights act of 1965. that plus strict limits on voting hours and limited poll places in working class neighborhoods tells me they aren't that enthusiastic about such folks voting in the first place. this fella says it best-
http://thedailybanter.com/2013/06/tea-p ... te-no-sht/
and also-



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26 Nov 2014, 6:23 pm

Well, I'm with American. I can't understand how people are surviving without any ID. It's just a trip to DMV, then the ID is sent in the mail. These people don't have access to public transportation, or a single person who can drive them to DMV? How do they live? What do they eat? With no job, no foods stamps, and, I assume, unable to even tend a garden (since they are housebound)? Even getting food handouts from Salvation Army requires ID (or doesn't it?).



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26 Nov 2014, 6:30 pm

starkid wrote:
Well, I'm with American. I can't understand how people are surviving without any ID. It's just a trip to DMV, then the ID is sent in the mail. These people don't have access to public transportation, or a single person who can drive them to DMV? How do they live? What do they eat? With no job, no foods stamps, and, I assume, unable to even tend a garden (since they are housebound)? Even getting food handouts from Salvation Army requires ID (or doesn't it?).

I don't have a single person who could drive me anywhere, as my sister works and can't take time off of work to cart me around should I lose the ability to drive. and where I live there is no public transit either. just because you don't know any such people does not mean they don't exist. it is a much bigger world than you describe. no salvation army food handouts out here in the sticks. and people who are crippled cannot generally do gardens, either.



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26 Nov 2014, 6:31 pm

Having an ID is just about essential for survival in the vast majority of the world.

It is also useful in identifying you should come into some kind of harm--or become amnesiac.

If you're arrested without ID, you are automatically remanded to jail, and have to wait to be arraigned for at least 24 hours.



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26 Nov 2014, 6:40 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Having an ID is just about essential for survival in the vast majority of the world. It is also useful in identifying you should come into some kind of harm--or become amnesiac. If you're arrested without ID, you are automatically remanded to jail, and have to wait to be arraigned for at least 24 hours.

America is not supposed to be one of those "papers, please" places. when we descend to that level then we are no longer the America we set out to be, IMHO. we would be just another authoritarian place among many. I have been harassed for not having "my papers" with me. I don't like that. in my own neighborhood I should be able to walk around without my wallet. having been mugged before I don't care to carry it unless absolutely necessary.