Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.

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GnosticBishop
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15 Nov 2014, 2:22 pm

Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.

Faith is a way to quit using, "God given" power of Reason and Logic, and cause the faithful to embrace doctrines that moral people reject.

The God of the O.T. says, ?Come now, and let us reason together,? [Isaiah 1:18]

How can literalists reason with God when they must ignore reason and logic and discard them when turning into literalist?

Those who are literalists can only reply somewhat in the fashion that Martin Luther did.
?Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.?
?Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.?

This attitude effectively kills all worthy communication that non-theists can have with theist. Faith closes the mind as it is pure idol worship.

Literalism is an evil practice that hides the true messages of myths.

We cannot show our faith based friends that they are wrong through their faith colored glasses.

Regards
DL



Cash__
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15 Nov 2014, 6:44 pm

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Literalism is an evil practice that hides the true messages of myths.


I like that sentence.



GnosticBishop
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15 Nov 2014, 6:53 pm

Cash__ wrote:
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Literalism is an evil practice that hides the true messages of myths.


I like that sentence.


Thanks.

If the Orthodox Catholics of the day had liked it as you do, they might not have had to usher in the Dark Ages and Inquisition. That would have saved us Gnostic Christians from Constantine's kill squads.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02cia ... =PLCBF574D

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DL



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15 Nov 2014, 8:12 pm

Finally!

Another person who sees faith and Martin Luther as threats to reason.

"Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding." ... ?Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things, but more frequently than not struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God." -- Martin Luther

Did you know that the father of the Reformation and founder of Lutheranism also believed that women were fit for little more than childbirth?

"If woman get tired and die of bearing, there is no harm in that; let them die, so long as they bear; they are made for that." -- Martin Luther, in his Sermon on Marriage, 1522

"The work and word of God tell us clearly that women must be used for marriage or prostitution." -- Martin Luther, 1523

For Martin Luther, a woman?s anatomy reveals her destiny as a mother rather than as a thinker (e.g., a man). He described a woman's broad hips as suited solely to childbirth, and her narrow shoulders as symbolic of her lack of anything substantial in her "upper quarters" (e.g., her head).

Isn't Christianity a wonderful thing? :roll:

...

"I know of no one who has done more for humanity than Jesus. In fact, there is nothing wrong with Christianity ? The trouble is with you Christians. You do not begin to live up to your own teachings." -- The Mahatma, Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi (b.1869 - d.1948)


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pezar
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15 Nov 2014, 9:12 pm

Fnord wrote:
Finally!

Another person who sees faith and Martin Luther as threats to reason.

"Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding." ... ?Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things, but more frequently than not struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God." -- Martin Luther

Did you know that the father of the Reformation and founder of Lutheranism also believed that women were fit for little more than childbirth?

"If woman get tired and die of bearing, there is no harm in that; let them die, so long as they bear; they are made for that." -- Martin Luther, in his Sermon on Marriage, 1522

"The work and word of God tell us clearly that women must be used for marriage or prostitution." -- Martin Luther, 1523

For Martin Luther, a woman?s anatomy reveals her destiny as a mother rather than as a thinker (e.g., a man). He described a woman's broad hips as suited solely to childbirth, and her narrow shoulders as symbolic of her lack of anything substantial in her "upper quarters" (e.g., her head).

Isn't Christianity a wonderful thing? :roll:

...

"I know of no one who has done more for humanity than Jesus. In fact, there is nothing wrong with Christianity ? The trouble is with you Christians. You do not begin to live up to your own teachings." -- The Mahatma, Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi (b.1869 - d.1948)


Luther was a real sicko, and the older he got, the crazier he got. Towards the end of his life he wrote on and on about killing ALL Jews, even if they had become Christians they had to be killed. Hitler took Luther at his word. In 1930s Berlin there were a number of books using Luther to justify Nazi policies.



Matthaeus
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16 Nov 2014, 11:08 pm

Well, people would rather BS themselves with nice stories instead of facing reality with an open mind. It is childish and silly imo to perpetuate these myths. There have been so many Christ-like figures with all the same features before Christ himself (Dionysus, Horus, Mithra, Krishna etc.). Why do we need a myth to keep humanity going? Where is reason?



Lukecash12
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16 Nov 2014, 11:18 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:
Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.

Faith is a way to quit using, "God given" power of Reason and Logic, and cause the faithful to embrace doctrines that moral people reject.

The God of the O.T. says, ?Come now, and let us reason together,? [Isaiah 1:18]

How can literalists reason with God when they must ignore reason and logic and discard them when turning into literalist?

Those who are literalists can only reply somewhat in the fashion that Martin Luther did.
?Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.?
?Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.?

This attitude effectively kills all worthy communication that non-theists can have with theist. Faith closes the mind as it is pure idol worship.

Literalism is an evil practice that hides the true messages of myths.

We cannot show our faith based friends that they are wrong through their faith colored glasses.

Regards
DL


Sadly, modern Christians are unaware that in Koine Greek "faith"/pistis explicitly involved logic. Pistis is a reasoned out conclusion. So truly faith in it's modern sense is an anachronistic concept. Furthermore, most anyone with a deeper knowledge of the original languages, as opposed to people like fundamentalists, has the understanding that the bible doesn't rule out anything scientific in nature. In fact the bible doesn't even talk about science except in a few notable exceptions like Job, which surprise, surprise folks turned out to be accurate (Job describes gravity, a heliocentric solar system, etc.).

It is purely a theological book and in Romans chapter 2 Paul makes an explicit reference to arguments from teleology and history. Nowhere in the bible does it ask for people to suspend using logic. One of the main mistakes that people make is when they take to the notion that the bible despises philosophy and reasoning, because Paul criticizes the "vain philosophy of the Greeks". This is silly because Paul was referring to the Greeks and in Acts it even establishes why he felt Greek philosophy was irrational. Not to mention that philosophy is clearly practiced by biblical writers, just look at Proverbs and Ecclesiastes.


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16 Nov 2014, 11:29 pm

Fnord wrote:
Finally!

Another person who sees faith and Martin Luther as threats to reason.

"Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding." ... ?Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things, but more frequently than not struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God." -- Martin Luther

Did you know that the father of the Reformation and founder of Lutheranism also believed that women were fit for little more than childbirth?

"If woman get tired and die of bearing, there is no harm in that; let them die, so long as they bear; they are made for that." -- Martin Luther, in his Sermon on Marriage, 1522

"The work and word of God tell us clearly that women must be used for marriage or prostitution." -- Martin Luther, 1523

For Martin Luther, a woman?s anatomy reveals her destiny as a mother rather than as a thinker (e.g., a man). He described a woman's broad hips as suited solely to childbirth, and her narrow shoulders as symbolic of her lack of anything substantial in her "upper quarters" (e.g., her head).

Isn't Christianity a wonderful thing? :roll:

...

"I know of no one who has done more for humanity than Jesus. In fact, there is nothing wrong with Christianity ? The trouble is with you Christians. You do not begin to live up to your own teachings." -- The Mahatma, Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi (b.1869 - d.1948)


Christianity has been perverted and subverted by culture, first by a Hellenistic culture, then by cultures around the world.


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RhodyStruggle
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17 Nov 2014, 12:17 am

I think it is not the concept of faith itself, but what one places one's faith in and to what end, that causes problems.

One cannot practice Euclidean geometry without having faith that parallel lines never meet, yet no harm is ever caused by this faith.


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Lukecash12
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17 Nov 2014, 12:21 am

RhodyStruggle wrote:
I think it is not the concept of faith itself, but what one places one's faith in and to what end, that causes problems.

One cannot practice Euclidean geometry without having faith that parallel lines never meet, yet no harm is ever caused by this faith.


Seems like I run into a brick wall every time I try to establish that "faith" in the modern sense isn't faith in the original sense at all.


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GnosticBishop
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17 Nov 2014, 1:49 pm

[quote="Fnord"]

Isn't Christianity a wonderful thing? :roll:

Religion, not just Christianity, was likely the first time I felt real hate. I was hate free till about 39 years of age. That may be why I was slow to push my apotheosis.

I have a love hate relationship with Martin Luther. If I can put it that way.

He was a lousy Christian for sure but may have converted to Gnostic Christianity when he smartened up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_qnsTr7I04

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DL



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17 Nov 2014, 1:55 pm

Matthaeus wrote:
Well, people would rather BS themselves with nice stories instead of facing reality with an open mind. It is childish and silly imo to perpetuate these myths. There have been so many Christ-like figures with all the same features before Christ himself (Dionysus, Horus, Mithra, Krishna etc.). Why do we need a myth to keep humanity going? Where is reason?


It may well be quite explainable as to why we create myths.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Father_complex

As well as----

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJ1PDxeUynA

------------

The problem arises only when we take myths literally.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02cia ... =PLCBF574D

The thinking shown below is the Gnostic Christian?s goal as taught by Jesus but know that any belief can be internalized.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbes ... r_embedded

This method and mind set is how you become I am and brethren to Jesus, in the esoteric sense.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

When you can name your God, I am, and mean yourself, then you will begin to know the only God you will ever find. It is to become more fully human.

Regards
DL



GnosticBishop
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17 Nov 2014, 2:00 pm

Lukecash12 wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.

Faith is a way to quit using, "God given" power of Reason and Logic, and cause the faithful to embrace doctrines that moral people reject.

The God of the O.T. says, ?Come now, and let us reason together,? [Isaiah 1:18]

How can literalists reason with God when they must ignore reason and logic and discard them when turning into literalist?

Those who are literalists can only reply somewhat in the fashion that Martin Luther did.
?Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.?
?Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.?

This attitude effectively kills all worthy communication that non-theists can have with theist. Faith closes the mind as it is pure idol worship.

Literalism is an evil practice that hides the true messages of myths.

We cannot show our faith based friends that they are wrong through their faith colored glasses.

Regards
DL


Sadly, modern Christians are unaware that in Koine Greek "faith"/pistis explicitly involved logic. Pistis is a reasoned out conclusion. So truly faith in it's modern sense is an anachronistic concept. Furthermore, most anyone with a deeper knowledge of the original languages, as opposed to people like fundamentalists, has the understanding that the bible doesn't rule out anything scientific in nature. In fact the bible doesn't even talk about science except in a few notable exceptions like Job, which surprise, surprise folks turned out to be accurate (Job describes gravity, a heliocentric solar system, etc.).

It is purely a theological book and in Romans chapter 2 Paul makes an explicit reference to arguments from teleology and history. Nowhere in the bible does it ask for people to suspend using logic. One of the main mistakes that people make is when they take to the notion that the bible despises philosophy and reasoning, because Paul criticizes the "vain philosophy of the Greeks". This is silly because Paul was referring to the Greeks and in Acts it even establishes why he felt Greek philosophy was irrational. Not to mention that philosophy is clearly practiced by biblical writers, just look at Proverbs and Ecclesiastes.


Well put and no argument from me on this.

I agree that religionists are supposed to analyse all things.

Jesus always preached to seek God. He never sais seek me yet look at how Christians have become idol worshipers of a man who said he was not God.

Regards
DL



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17 Nov 2014, 2:03 pm

RhodyStruggle wrote:
I think it is not the concept of faith itself, but what one places one's faith in and to what end, that causes problems.

One cannot practice Euclidean geometry without having faith that parallel lines never meet, yet no harm is ever caused by this faith.


True. That is not the case with religion.

I have this that speaks to that.

For the evils of religion to grow, read any scripture literally.

Any and all harmless beliefs are allowed by Gnostic Christians. We know that any myth can be internalized for good results and as esoteric ecumenists, we enjoy knowledge of all the myths that man has created about Gods.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02cia ... =PLCBF574D

When there is a victim is when that view changes. Then you see why Christianity annihilated Gnostic Christianity. We do not let the evils of forced literalism go unopposed. To a tyrant like Constantine, we were poison. One of his first commands to his new Church was to kill off the free thinkers and of course, his new tool, his Church, did as bid. It was quite a ride for free thought for the next 1,000 years.

How can a Gnostic Christian, --- and any other free thinking moral person, --- not judge other's morals when seeing someone hurt other because of the same Church's teachings today?

Can you ignore such things if you have decent morals? Impossible. Especially with Islam pulling the same murderous, freedom stifling ****.

We must discriminate and judge constantly. Every law is a compulsion on all of us to judge.

It is my view that all right wing literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are moral religionists, --- as well as those who do not believe. Literalists hurt their parent religions --- and everyone else, be he a believer or not. Literalists and the right wing of religions make us all into laughing stocks. Their God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution has got to go. So must beliefs in fantasy, miracles and magic. These are all evil.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2zhlDbMfDg

They also do much harm to their own fellow adherents.

African witches and Jesus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlRG9gXriVI

Jesus Camp 1of 3
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=48b_1185215493

Death to Gays.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyuKLyGUHNE

For evil to grow my friend, all good people need do is nothing. Fight literalism when you can. It is your duty to our fellow man.

Regards
DL



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18 Nov 2014, 6:43 pm

Lukecash12 wrote:
RhodyStruggle wrote:
I think it is not the concept of faith itself, but what one places one's faith in and to what end, that causes problems.

One cannot practice Euclidean geometry without having faith that parallel lines never meet, yet no harm is ever caused by this faith.


Seems like I run into a brick wall every time I try to establish that "faith" in the modern sense isn't faith in the original sense at all.


Possibly you're running into said wall because the statement you're attempting to establish is too strong to be literally true. They're certainly not the same thing, but they're both instantiations of a common abstract concept (the assertion of an axiom, a proposition which is assumed within a well-defined scope to be true, as a basis for further reasoning). So 'faith in the original sense' may not be "equal" (semantically isomorphic) to '"faith" in the modern sense' (which means what, precisely? where do we Discordians fall with respect to modern "faith"?) but clearly they're objects of a common category. Whereas "not at all" would seem to imply that no such commonality exists.

If you think I'm being pedantic, that's quite possibly valid - I can't always tell. By analogy, if you'd said "a human isn't an orangutan at all" I'd be likely to make the same argument. Humans and orangutans are both primates, so "not at all" is still too strong a statement, even though they're not "equal." I think this is a valid and important point to make, but I won't take offense if you disagree :)


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18 Nov 2014, 7:03 pm

God is a God of stupidity, wrath, slavery, and eternal punishment. Is it any wonder why many people are the way they are?

I believe in God, but loathe Him more than I loath all my enemies combined.