Page 3 of 8 [ 115 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 8  Next

ScrewyWabbit
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Oct 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,154

18 Nov 2014, 5:06 pm

Shep wrote:
Prove, using science and science alone, that there is no higher being


This is about as ass-backwards a pretext as there can be. In the utter absence of any evidence supporting the existence of a Christian god or any other form of super natural being, this is nothing more than a pathetic attempt by the side that can never, ever prove its case to shift the burden of proof over to the other side in such a way that can never be fulfilled.

It can be laid waste to and dismissed out of hand by this simple conjecture:

If there's no evidence to even suggest that something exists, it probably does not exist
If there's no evidence to even suggest something exists, it probably exists anyway

One side supports the first statement, the other side supports the second statement. Given that the second statement is plainly ludicrous, one need not go any further.



ScrewyWabbit
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Oct 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,154

18 Nov 2014, 5:07 pm

Shep wrote:
Prove, using science and science alone, that there is no higher being


This is about as ass-backwards a pretext as there can be. In the utter absence of any evidence supporting the existence of a Christian god or any other form of super natural being, this is nothing more than a pathetic attempt by the side that can never, ever prove its case to shift the burden of proof over to the other side in such a way that can never be fulfilled.

It can be laid waste to and dismissed out of hand by this simple conjecture:

If there's no evidence to even suggest that something exists, it probably does not exist
If there's no evidence to even suggest something exists, it probably exists anyway

One side supports the first statement, the other side supports the second statement. Given that the second statement is plainly ludicrous, one need not go any further.



AspieOtaku
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2012
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,051
Location: San Jose

19 Nov 2014, 1:18 am

Can god make a rock so heavy he cannot lift?Another thing if he is real he creates the Earth but didnt know it was round total epic fail there. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCo6BVPGDh0[/youtube]Remember it only takes 2 seconds for you to throw your keyboard across the room in anger, then cry to your make believe imaginary friend who will not answer because he does not exist. No proof at all and no evidence proving his existence greatly outweighs not proving something that doesn't have proof to exist in the first place. Its like having the possibility of talking hippos walking on hind legs on planet earth now and establishing modern civilization and harnessing electricity...its just not happening my friend.


_________________
Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
Your neurotypical score is 40 of 200
You are very likely an aspie
No matter where I go I will always be a Gaijin even at home. Like Anime? https://kissanime.to/AnimeList


Last edited by AspieOtaku on 19 Nov 2014, 1:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

Lukecash12
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2012
Age: 60
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,033

19 Nov 2014, 1:32 am

Cash__ wrote:
The "you can't disprove God arguments are stupid". You also can't disprove flying spaghetti monsters, tooth fairies, sentient cookies, unicorns and self aware car tires. Yet you don't believe in those.


That's not the point. This thread is a response to someone who said he could do just that. Obviously that is silly and I don't see why we need this thread. I'm sure the vast majority of people here agree that you can't disprove something supernatural with science. Physics and metaphysics are two separate subjects.


_________________
There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance.
Nahj ul-Balāgha by Ali bin Abu-Talib


Lukecash12
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2012
Age: 60
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,033

19 Nov 2014, 1:36 am

AspieOtaku wrote:
Can god make a rock so heavy he cannot lift?Another thing if he is real he creates the Earth but didnt know it was round total epic fail there. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCo6BVPGDh0[/youtube]Remember it only takes 2 seconds for you to throw your keyboard across the room in anger.


1. Maybe try logic 101 or philosophy 101. That's like asking if God can make a round square. Asking God to perform a contradiction or otherwise do something that isn't real, is in no way a demonstration of His powers being limited.

2. Also maybe try learning more than the complete basics about a religion from the most backwards group(s) in it before you start judging it. Have you ever read the whole Bible? How much do you know about it? Are you at all familiar with the original languages used? Are you at all familiar with the original people involved, their history and culture?

No, you're just a troll who wouldn't know what intellectual honesty was if it hit him in the head like a brick. If you were at all interested in taking this seriously you'd quit incessantly referring us to youtube videos and crappy sites full of crackpot material. Are you even aware of where you can go to find scholarly publications? Have you ever read any? Can you even name ten relevant scholars off the top of your head? Let's make it even easier: name five of them? Or better yet: can you name even one scholar who you've read, whose peer reviewed publications you've read at least one of, that held a viewpoint opposing yours? If not it's time you put on your big boy pants and did so.


_________________
There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance.
Nahj ul-Balāgha by Ali bin Abu-Talib


Last edited by Lukecash12 on 19 Nov 2014, 1:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

AspieOtaku
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2012
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,051
Location: San Jose

19 Nov 2014, 1:41 am

Lukecash12 wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
Can god make a rock so heavy he cannot lift?Another thing if he is real he creates the Earth but didnt know it was round total epic fail there. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCo6BVPGDh0[/youtube]Remember it only takes 2 seconds for you to throw your keyboard across the room in anger.


1. Maybe try logic 101 or philosophy 101. That's like asking if God can make a round square. Asking God to perform a contradiction or otherwise do something that isn't real, is in no way a demonstration of His powers being limited.

2. Also maybe try learning more than the complete basics about a religion from the most backwards group(s) in it before you start judging it. Have you ever read the whole Bible? How much do you know about it? Are you at all familiar with the original languages used? Are you at all familiar with the original people involved, their history and culture?

No, you're just a troll who wouldn't know what intellectual honesty was if it hit him in the head like a brick. If you were at all interested in taking this seriously you'd quit incessantly referring us to youtube videos and crappy sites full of crackpot material. Are you even aware of where you can go to find scholarly publications? Have you ever read any? Can you even name more than ten relevant scholars off the top of your head?
Actually I have read it from cover to cover and it has contradicted itself time and time again. Im not some mere troll here I just see it as just a bunch of popycock as opposed to todays material from actual discoveries made. Apparently the world was supposed to end over 12 years ago with the rapture and such it still hasn't happened and every single church still preaches the end is near and will happen now and nothing still happens from 2000-2012 nothing and nothing will continue to happen it was all a waste of time to be in fear of.


_________________
Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
Your neurotypical score is 40 of 200
You are very likely an aspie
No matter where I go I will always be a Gaijin even at home. Like Anime? https://kissanime.to/AnimeList


Lukecash12
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2012
Age: 60
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,033

19 Nov 2014, 1:50 am

AspieOtaku wrote:
Lukecash12 wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
Can god make a rock so heavy he cannot lift?Another thing if he is real he creates the Earth but didnt know it was round total epic fail there. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCo6BVPGDh0[/youtube]Remember it only takes 2 seconds for you to throw your keyboard across the room in anger.


1. Maybe try logic 101 or philosophy 101. That's like asking if God can make a round square. Asking God to perform a contradiction or otherwise do something that isn't real, is in no way a demonstration of His powers being limited.

2. Also maybe try learning more than the complete basics about a religion from the most backwards group(s) in it before you start judging it. Have you ever read the whole Bible? How much do you know about it? Are you at all familiar with the original languages used? Are you at all familiar with the original people involved, their history and culture?

No, you're just a troll who wouldn't know what intellectual honesty was if it hit him in the head like a brick. If you were at all interested in taking this seriously you'd quit incessantly referring us to youtube videos and crappy sites full of crackpot material. Are you even aware of where you can go to find scholarly publications? Have you ever read any? Can you even name more than ten relevant scholars off the top of your head?
Actually I have read it from cover to cover and it has contradicted itself time and time again. Im not some mere troll here I just see it as just a bunch of popycock as opposed to todays material from actual discoveries made. Apparently the world was supposed to end over 12 years ago with the rapture and such it still hasn't happened and every single church still preaches the end is near and will happen now and nothing still happens from 2000-2012 nothing and nothing will continue to happen it was all a waste of time to be in fear of.


Alright, let's see what you know then. Where does it say in the bible the world was supposed to end twelve years ago? Where does it say the world will end soon? Or better yet: where does it say the world will end?


_________________
There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance.
Nahj ul-Balāgha by Ali bin Abu-Talib


AspieOtaku
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2012
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,051
Location: San Jose

19 Nov 2014, 2:15 am

Lukecash12 wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
Lukecash12 wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
Can god make a rock so heavy he cannot lift?Another thing if he is real he creates the Earth but didnt know it was round total epic fail there. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCo6BVPGDh0[/youtube]Remember it only takes 2 seconds for you to throw your keyboard across the room in anger.


1. Maybe try logic 101 or philosophy 101. That's like asking if God can make a round square. Asking God to perform a contradiction or otherwise do something that isn't real, is in no way a demonstration of His powers being limited.

2. Also maybe try learning more than the complete basics about a religion from the most backwards group(s) in it before you start judging it. Have you ever read the whole Bible? How much do you know about it? Are you at all familiar with the original languages used? Are you at all familiar with the original people involved, their history and culture?

No, you're just a troll who wouldn't know what intellectual honesty was if it hit him in the head like a brick. If you were at all interested in taking this seriously you'd quit incessantly referring us to youtube videos and crappy sites full of crackpot material. Are you even aware of where you can go to find scholarly publications? Have you ever read any? Can you even name more than ten relevant scholars off the top of your head?
Actually I have read it from cover to cover and it has contradicted itself time and time again. Im not some mere troll here I just see it as just a bunch of popycock as opposed to todays material from actual discoveries made. Apparently the world was supposed to end over 12 years ago with the rapture and such it still hasn't happened and every single church still preaches the end is near and will happen now and nothing still happens from 2000-2012 nothing and nothing will continue to happen it was all a waste of time to be in fear of.


Alright, let's see what you know then. Where does it say in the bible the world was supposed to end twelve years ago? Where does it say the world will end soon? Or better yet: where does it say the world will end?
When I was religious and a stupid bible thumping thrall of a make beilieve god and was a Christistian every pastor I came across used scare tactics that the world was going to end soon and now and this was over a decade ago and nothing has happened. Look up revelations and come back to me, none of that has truly happened and it was supposed to happen over a decade ago.


_________________
Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
Your neurotypical score is 40 of 200
You are very likely an aspie
No matter where I go I will always be a Gaijin even at home. Like Anime? https://kissanime.to/AnimeList


Lukecash12
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2012
Age: 60
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,033

19 Nov 2014, 4:04 am

AspieOtaku wrote:
Lukecash12 wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
Lukecash12 wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
Can god make a rock so heavy he cannot lift?Another thing if he is real he creates the Earth but didnt know it was round total epic fail there. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCo6BVPGDh0[/youtube]Remember it only takes 2 seconds for you to throw your keyboard across the room in anger.


1. Maybe try logic 101 or philosophy 101. That's like asking if God can make a round square. Asking God to perform a contradiction or otherwise do something that isn't real, is in no way a demonstration of His powers being limited.

2. Also maybe try learning more than the complete basics about a religion from the most backwards group(s) in it before you start judging it. Have you ever read the whole Bible? How much do you know about it? Are you at all familiar with the original languages used? Are you at all familiar with the original people involved, their history and culture?

No, you're just a troll who wouldn't know what intellectual honesty was if it hit him in the head like a brick. If you were at all interested in taking this seriously you'd quit incessantly referring us to youtube videos and crappy sites full of crackpot material. Are you even aware of where you can go to find scholarly publications? Have you ever read any? Can you even name more than ten relevant scholars off the top of your head?
Actually I have read it from cover to cover and it has contradicted itself time and time again. Im not some mere troll here I just see it as just a bunch of popycock as opposed to todays material from actual discoveries made. Apparently the world was supposed to end over 12 years ago with the rapture and such it still hasn't happened and every single church still preaches the end is near and will happen now and nothing still happens from 2000-2012 nothing and nothing will continue to happen it was all a waste of time to be in fear of.


Alright, let's see what you know then. Where does it say in the bible the world was supposed to end twelve years ago? Where does it say the world will end soon? Or better yet: where does it say the world will end?
When I was religious and a stupid bible thumping thrall of a make beilieve god and was a Christistian every pastor I came across used scare tactics that the world was going to end soon and now and this was over a decade ago and nothing has happened. Look up revelations and come back to me, none of that has truly happened and it was supposed to happen over a decade ago.


You're not being asked what you were told. You're being asked to support that the Bible says anything of that nature. Show me where it says that. Once again: the opinions that were given to you don't necessarily have anything to do with the actual contents of the Bible.


_________________
There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance.
Nahj ul-Balāgha by Ali bin Abu-Talib


AspE
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Dec 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,114

19 Nov 2014, 10:21 am

Lukecash12 wrote:
Cash__ wrote:
The "you can't disprove God arguments are stupid". You also can't disprove flying spaghetti monsters, tooth fairies, sentient cookies, unicorns and self aware car tires. Yet you don't believe in those.


That's not the point. This thread is a response to someone who said he could do just that. Obviously that is silly and I don't see why we need this thread. I'm sure the vast majority of people here agree that you can't disprove something supernatural with science. Physics and metaphysics are two separate subjects.

No they are not. There is no rule in science that says it's methods cannot be used to study any observable phenomenon. For instance there is a commonly cited study on the efficacy of prayer.



AspE
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Dec 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,114

19 Nov 2014, 10:21 am

Lukecash12 wrote:
Cash__ wrote:
The "you can't disprove God arguments are stupid". You also can't disprove flying spaghetti monsters, tooth fairies, sentient cookies, unicorns and self aware car tires. Yet you don't believe in those.


That's not the point. This thread is a response to someone who said he could do just that. Obviously that is silly and I don't see why we need this thread. I'm sure the vast majority of people here agree that you can't disprove something supernatural with science. Physics and metaphysics are two separate subjects.

No they are not. There is no rule in science that says it's methods cannot be used to study any observable phenomenon. For instance there is a commonly cited study on the efficacy of prayer.



Liveirarica
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 10 Oct 2014
Age: 69
Gender: Male
Posts: 90

19 Nov 2014, 10:51 am

AspieOtaku wrote:
Can god make a rock so heavy he cannot lift?Another thing if he is real he creates the Earth but didnt know it was round total epic fail there.
:roll:

You're being irrational, think about it like this:

Answer #1: God claims to be a monotheist (as in the sense of being a monotheistic God, not a person who has monotheistic beliefs), correct? If He wish to create a second god (thus, it will become polytheistic and contradict His monotheistic kingdom), He could, as He has the power to do it as He can do everything, but there will be no cause or reason for such thing and it will go against the monotheism He chose to create, thus, He wouldn't make one and as He had not created anything like that, we cannot say He is polytheist, as there are no second god he had created! And because He still maintained to be monotheist, therefore, He still is to begin and end with, a monotheist and not polytheist, the same with the Omnipotent God as He didn't create one and there are no evidence but our imagining and conjecture and if God had not created it as He didn't wish to, He still maintains as the one and only Omnipotent God. He needs no reason to test His abilities, if He wish to make himself inferior or lower his ranks, He could do that, but He don't, which is the keypoint. - if someone wish to articulate my point more eloquent, be free to do such, I have a feeling I didn't word myself fluently or stress out my point clearly.

Answer #2: Usain Bolt is the fastest runner, that does not mean that if Flash existed, he is faster than Flash or the fastest of all time, but the current record holder and as no one are faster than him, he is regarded as the fastest. The same can be said about God, no one are more powerful or stronger than God, if God chose to make a second god, even stronger than him, he could and that god would hold the record then, but he don't and therefore he is the record holder, and in His case as no rational human can overtake God, he will forever be the most powerful unless he created an equal to himself. Therefore, the claim that God is not all-powerful is absurd, can be said the same about God is all-loving, even though God will take some to hell and he dislike some of these creations he had created doesn't mean he is not all-loving. God created more than 100 billion humans of all time, who knows how many billions or gazillions of Angels and demons, too. If God just love 87 billion of all humans and is indifferent about the rest, does not mean he is not all-loving, as no human can love as many as God, figuratively or spiritually, yes, but not literally, therefore he IS the all-loving.

3# answer: I see that you ask this question with the image of God as a big invisible bearded man sitting on the sky, or in other words, you're humanizing Him.

God looks not like His creation and we cannot comprehend His image, but as you're already are a blasphemer, I suppose you don't have anything against regarding Him as this; you should think of God as the transparent and body-less water or the transparent and body-less air, He is everywhere and His image may not be imagined, you cannot see Him, but feel Him, but if you did see Him, the illumination of his outline, alone, will burn a whole Universe at His own will.

I don't know how to conclude this and stress out the main point as a TL;DR, it's quite narfistic, if anyone could help, please feel free.

There have been other answers to this fallacious paradoxical argument, but as always, it has been proven wrong.



trollcatman
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Dec 2012
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,919

19 Nov 2014, 11:07 am

^^^ But according to Judaism/Christianity humans were created in Gods image, so there is reason people anthropomorphise him to some extent. And blasphemer, really? If you look at it that way we are all blasphemers to someone else's religion since we don't believe in their gods. The Greek and Germanic Gods were quite anthropomorphic by the way. According to the Eddas Odin walked on the earth as an old man with a broad-brimmed hat.



Last edited by trollcatman on 19 Nov 2014, 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

khaoz
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Apr 2013
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,940

19 Nov 2014, 11:15 am

It is not the job of science to prove what does not exist. It is thee job of those who believe in such things to prove that your "higher beings" do exist. Science has never made a mission of disproving what you believe. No scientist has a goal of disproving the existence of higher beings Scientists do not study evolution with the intent of disproving what you believe. You are uncomfortable with the findings of scientists because the things they discover are inconsistent with the beliefs that you are incapable of proving. That pisses you off. Too bad. I am not concerned with people trying to disprove what my beliefs are. (Zen Buddhism) I do not care if people agree with my beliefs and I certainly do not view anyone who disagrees with me as trying to disprove what I believe. I do not need the validation of someone else in order to benefit from my beliefs. I think the problem is that you are insecure with your own beliefs so you feel threatened by anyone who does not share your beliefs.



Liveirarica
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 10 Oct 2014
Age: 69
Gender: Male
Posts: 90

19 Nov 2014, 11:31 am

trollcatman wrote:
^^^ But according to Judaism/Christianity humans were created in Gods image, so there is reason people anthropomorphise him to some extent. And blasphemer, really? If you look at it that way we are all blasphemers to someone else's religion since we don't believe in their gods. The Greek and Germanic Gods were quite anthropomorphic by the way. According to the Eddas Odin walked on the earth as an old man with a broad-brimmed hat.
It's absolutely blasphemous to idealize God, which is why I did not hesitate to call the person a blasphemer, the only Christians that were anthropomorphizing God were Romans and Greek because of their Pagan ancestors and traditions (such as the gods you were referring to) that still survived the culture, it's Paganic, it's idolatry. But you're right; we're all atheists and blasphemers regarding other gods and religions but our own (unless actual atheists or pantheistic).

Also about your point on "we're created in God's image", I'm still right, according to Christian sources: Having the ?image? or ?likeness? of God means, in the simplest terms, that we were made to resemble God. Adam did not resemble God in the sense of God?s having flesh and blood. Scripture says that ?God is spirit? (John 4:24) and therefore exists without a body (which is what I said about him being transparent or like water and air). However, Adam?s body did mirror the life of God insofar as it was created in perfect health and was not subject to death.

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/image-of-Go ... z3JX4RK3EZ

This means we are made in God's image, figuratively and spiritually speaking, not literally and psychically.



trollcatman
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Dec 2012
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,919

19 Nov 2014, 11:46 am

Liveirarica wrote:
trollcatman wrote:
^^^ But according to Judaism/Christianity humans were created in Gods image, so there is reason people anthropomorphise him to some extent. And blasphemer, really? If you look at it that way we are all blasphemers to someone else's religion since we don't believe in their gods. The Greek and Germanic Gods were quite anthropomorphic by the way. According to the Eddas Odin walked on the earth as an old man with a broad-brimmed hat.
It's absolutely blasphemous to idealize God, which is why I did not hesitate to call the person a blasphemer, the only Christians that were anthropomorphizing God were Romans and Greek because of their Pagan ancestors and traditions (such as the gods you were referring to) that still survived the culture, it's Paganic, it's idolatry. But you're right; we're all atheists and blasphemers regarding other gods and religions but our own (unless actual atheists or pantheistic).

Also about your point on "we're created in God's image", I'm still right, according to Christian sources: Having the ?image? or ?likeness? of God means, in the simplest terms, that we were made to resemble God. Adam did not resemble God in the sense of God?s having flesh and blood. Scripture says that ?God is spirit? (John 4:24) and therefore exists without a body (which is what I said about him being transparent or like water and air). However, Adam?s body did mirror the life of God insofar as it was created in perfect health and was not subject to death.

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/image-of-Go ... z3JX4RK3EZ

This means we are made in God's image, figuratively and spiritually speaking, not literally and psychically.


Still, the Abrahamic God is usually depicted as an old man with a beard. And of course in Christianity there is Jesus, the embodiment of God on earth. Almost all of the polytheistic religions have anthopomorphises their Gods: Hinduism, the Egyptian religion, the Roman/Greek/Germanic religions.
And for blasphemy, to me that's a dirty word since it's been used to suppress freedom of speech for centuries. In some countries there are still laws against blasphemy, Without blasphemers we wouldn't have had people like David Hume.