Special Rights based on Sexual Orientation and a Lifestyle

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slowmutant
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03 Aug 2008, 6:28 am

I'm glad you think so, Oscuria.



Dogbrain
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05 Aug 2008, 9:23 am

Government should not be in the marriage racket in the first place. The only legitimate function of government would be to ratify "domestic partnership" contracts, which could be entered into by consenting adults able to otherwise enter into contractual obligations.

Marriage or not would be an affair handled entirely by non-state concerns with no attendant legal privileges attached.



slowmutant
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05 Aug 2008, 10:09 am

So gays/lesbians should be married by the state and not by the church? I think that is totally the right way to go. If it's just a legal thing, gay marriage isn't a headache for the church. :thumright:



Dogbrain
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05 Aug 2008, 10:20 am

slowmutant wrote:
So gays/lesbians should be married by the state and not by the church? I think that is totally the right way to go. If it's just a legal thing, gay marriage isn't a headache for the church. :thumright:


NOBODY AT ALL SHOULD BE MARRIED BY THE STATE! The state should only recognize "domestic partnership contracts" that cover all current property, custody, access, etc. legal elements currently handled by "marriage". Marriage, which should carry NO LEGAL STATUS, would be recognized or not by private organizations.



slowmutant
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05 Aug 2008, 10:50 am

Of course, I meant "domestic partnership" and not "marriage." But if any gays or lesbians feel they need a religious ceremony, they may be SOL. If we are going to have domestic partnerships for same-sex couples and reserve marriages for traditional couples. By the way, it's very impolite to SHOUT.



Dogbrain
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05 Aug 2008, 11:00 am

slowmutant wrote:
Of course, I meant "domestic partnership" and not "marriage." But if any gays or lesbians feel they need a religious ceremony, they may be SOL. If we are going to have domestic partnerships for same-sex couples and reserve marriages for traditional couples. By the way, it's very impolite to SHOUT.


It may be impolite, but it's often the only way to get the point across to the stubbornly ignorant. Domestic partnerships would be for EVERYBODY. If you want any of the current legal perquisites of marriage (property, insurance, custody, etc.), then you would have to get a domestic partnership. Marriage would be entirely optional and a purely private affair WITH NO LEGAL RAMIFICATIONS AT ALL. The government would not handle divorces (dissolution of marriage). However, divorces would not have legally-binding property or custody settlements, either. Instead dissolutions of domestic partnerships would have legally-binding property and custody settlements.

Marriage would NOT BE RECOGNIZED BY THE STATE AT ALL. It would have no legal existence--or no more legal existence than membership in the "Happy Fun Time Super Decoder Ring Club" would have. And there are religious institutions around that would be happy to marry any two (or three, four, five, etc.) consenting adults if it weren't prohibited by law.



slowmutant
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05 Aug 2008, 11:05 am

Stubbornly ignorant?

Nein.



qaliqo
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05 Aug 2008, 12:07 pm

slowmutant wrote:
Is it possible to be a serious Christian and avoid being some sort of bigot or a homophobe? By "serious" I mean "retaining Christian values."


Is it possible to be a serious Christian at all? Or just a dour one? Have met thousands of Christians, none of whom took seriously the teachings of Jesus. Try this:
Next time someone asks for a jacket, give him your coat as well.
When you make a loan, do no accept repayment.
When you take on a debt, repay twice what is owed.
Never deny anyone access to clothing, shelter, food, or water if it is within your power.
Make no promises, under any circumstance.
Love your neighbor in equal measure to yourself.

When you finish doing this for the rest of your life, you can spend the last few minutes being a bigot or homophobe, and your last seconds receiving Absolution for your sins. Being against anybody is less Christian than being for them. Your sins are forgiven only as you forgive others' sins!

Pax Domine...


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slowmutant
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05 Aug 2008, 12:56 pm

Relax, I'm not one of those dour right-wing types. I can tell you're angry with me but you don't have to be. You've obviously taken offense with something statement of mine. I think you've made a lot of of assumptions about me without getting to know me first. You'd love for me to the bigot homophobe, but I'm just not. "Serious Christians" are not obligated to be petty, hypocritical, intolerant blowhards believe it or not.



qaliqo
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05 Aug 2008, 4:47 pm

slowmutant wrote:
Relax, I'm not one of those dour right-wing types. I can tell you're angry with me but you don't have to be. You've obviously taken offense with something statement of mine. I think you've made a lot of of assumptions about me without getting to know me first. You'd love for me to the bigot homophobe, but I'm just not. "Serious Christians" are not obligated to be petty, hypocritical, intolerant blowhards believe it or not.


Not angry or offended, but the question seemed quite heavily loaded. Obviously, one can be a serious Christian and not a homophobe or bigot. Unless one personally cannot, in which case, my advice stands that explicit teachings by Jesus be heeded before this or that verse regarding hot, man-on-man action. Serious Christians should lighten up, their sins are forgiven, so have fun a little, when not helping those in need.

In God We Trust, All Others Pay Cash.


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slowmutant
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05 Aug 2008, 4:56 pm

Sins don't forgive themselves. You have to ask God to forgive your sins. And one's relationship with God is very serious. It's not something we take lightly. It's not a joke.