Obama thinks your kids should learn Spanish

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Should American kids learn Spanish?
Yes All American children should be taught Spanish 63%  63%  [ 25 ]
No learning Spanish will not benefit American children 38%  38%  [ 15 ]
Total votes : 40

Triangular_Trees
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25 Jul 2008, 12:19 am

Malsane wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
yeah but you assume that everyone wants to retain such skill and ability. you can't force people to retain it and utilize it. it'd be nice if they retained it and quite possibly beneficial but in the end, it's not something that can be forced.
The same can be said for every subject. Some kids don't like math. Some kids don't like history. I don't like English class. But they're mandatory. Schooling is mandatory.


Neither of those is comparable. You can't operate on a daily basis without using what you've learned in english and math class. You can operate on a yearly basis without using a single word of spanish.

You couldn't disuse math if you tried. Lets see for one thing you could no longer keep track of time or look at a clock, purchase any item, count your money, read a bank statement, make a budget..etc

And if you forget what you learn in english class you wont be speak well enough to carry on a basic conversation eith your family - we've all encountered foreignors who think they speak english, but don't have the first clue. They end up speaking like an instruction manual from china. and everyone is left saying "huh i can't understand you"



LKL
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25 Jul 2008, 12:57 am

I would be miffed by the looks, and the fact that they appeared to be deliberately speaking about me in a manner that I could not understand; I would be equally offended if they were whispering to each other in English, with the same looks. If they were merely talking to each other in Chinese without involving me, I would have no complaint.

^^^
how many average americans use algebra on a daily basis? Use any math at the high school level or beyond?



Triangular_Trees
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25 Jul 2008, 1:14 am

LKL wrote:
I would be miffed by the looks, and the fact that they appeared to be deliberately speaking about me in a manner that I could not understand; I would be equally offended if they were whispering to each other in English, with the same looks. If they were merely talking to each other in Chinese without involving me, I would have no complaint.



Then you better not order anything special at a chinese restaurant. Because not only will the convey your order in chinese, they chefs will look over at you when told what you want. Just as they would if they were told what you want in English




Quote:
how many average americans use algebra on a daily basis? Use any math at the high school level or beyond?


I'd love to see you point out a typical adult who doesn't use algebra daily. When you look at the price of gas and say "its $X/gallon so for $20 I can get X gallons, or 3/4 a tank, you are using algebra.

A parking meter costs $.10 an hour. you know you'll be gone at least an hour and a half. You need algebra to tell you how much money to put in the meter

You make $1200/month. You pay $300 in rent, $200 for your car, $50 for gas, $200 for your insurance, $200 for groceries, and $70 for your internet. You want to buy a cell phone that will cost you $100/month, you need algebra to see if you can afford that. You want to save up for a trip to disney land - you need algebra to see how long it will take you to save up enough. Your car breaks down and you want to know if you can afford the repairs without having to cut back on the frills in your life - you need algebra to find out

You see a computer in the store whose sale price is 80% of the usual price, plus an extra ten percent of that price. You need algebra to figure out the price

You want to see if you are going to owe the government $4,000 or get a refund come April, you need Algebra.



n4mwd
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25 Jul 2008, 6:43 am

LKL wrote:
I found it racist as well - or, perhaps more accurately, xenophobic. No one is harmed by hearing someone else speak a foreign language; the fact that such a thing could be considered 'offensive' implies fears beyond the concrete.


I really don't give a rats ass what race they are. If they aren't speaking English, that's extremely disrespectful.

I recently had lunch with two other people. Two of us were white and the third was hispanic. The other white guy was in the process of learning spanish and decided to start speaking it in front of me to the hispanic guy. The hispanic guy replied in English, "This is not the place for a conversation in spanish."

It doesn't matter what race they are. Disrespect is disrespect. And to imply that someone is a racist because they don't like disrespect is also disrespectful.

We're all aspies here so I can understand why you don't understand that fact, but it doesn't change the fact that speaking a foreign language in public is very rude to say the least.



monty
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25 Jul 2008, 9:39 am

n4mwd wrote:
I really don't give a rats ass what race they are. If they aren't speaking English, that's extremely disrespectful.

....

We're all aspies here so I can understand why you don't understand that fact, but it doesn't change the fact that speaking a foreign language in public is very rude to say the least.


I disagree. People should be free to speak in whatever language they desire for social purposes. If the Amish want to talk to their fellow Amish or to their mules in an antiquated dialect of German, more power to them. They speak English for business and legal purposes and when they relate to the outside world - that should be enough. When they are involved in personal conversations, it's nobody's business but theirs.



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25 Jul 2008, 11:35 am

Quote:
I recently had lunch with two other people. Two of us were white and the third was hispanic. The other white guy was in the process of learning spanish and decided to start speaking it in front of me to the hispanic guy. The hispanic guy replied in English, "This is not the place for a conversation in spanish."


The inappropriateness had nothing to do with the fact that you were in public. It would have been just as inappropriate had the three of you been in his basement. When you are conversing with two people, you don't use a language only one of them knows.

It is extremely disrespectful, and goes against what our American ancesotrs fought for, to not want people to speak languages other than English, in public, especially when all parties concerned are of a native tongue other than english.Also do not forget, English is not the official language of the US.



monty
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25 Jul 2008, 11:47 am

n4mwd wrote:

I recently had lunch with two other people. Two of us were white and the third was hispanic. The other white guy was in the process of learning spanish and decided to start speaking it in front of me to the hispanic guy. The hispanic guy replied in English, "This is not the place for a conversation in spanish."



Ok - what if three people are eating lunch, and two talk about football when the other person has no interest in football? Is that inherently rude? Should they ask the person if it is ok to talk about football? Or do they talk about football for a while, then move on to something else? Would it have been wrong to humor the guy who was learning Spanish, speak a few sentences, and then say "Ok, that's all the Spanish for now, how bout that running back that the Cowboys traded for"??



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25 Jul 2008, 12:06 pm

Quote:
k - what if three people are eating lunch, and two talk about football when the other person has no interest in football? Is that inherently rude? Should they ask the person if it is ok to talk about football? Or do they talk about football for a while, then move on to something else?


Doesn't matter whether or not the third person is interested in football. They are fully aware of what is being said, and can redirect the conversation to a different topic.


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Would it have been wrong to humor the guy who was learning Spanish, speak a few sentences, and then say "Ok, that's all the Spanish for now, how bout that running back that the Cowboys traded for"??


Well it wouldn't have been very appropriate given the situation. And as to whether or not humoring for a few moments would be tolerable for the spanish speaker depends on other things like how far this man has progressed, the purpose of going out to eat together, and how many times he's tried this in the past, especially the past few days.


So how would you feel if you went out to eat with me and another, and in the middle of the conversation I said

"Het is net zo klein mijn geld vervalsen is gestolen of per afdeling criminele recherché."
"Nog steeds aan het proberen?"
" Ja. Natuurlijk - Ik heb een geld nodig."
"En je hoopt dat dit nu wel werkt ? dat verhaal van die epilepsie werkt veel beter! Als je daar om geld vraagt dan krijg je het misschien nog!"
"Het spijt me, maar Ik weet het niet hoe spreek de waarheid in Nederlands."
"Ja, dat hebben we gemerkt." :D
"Is dat duidelijk?" :)
"Ja, dat is hééél duidelijk :lol: :lol: :lol: ....So how about those Padres?"

You would have just missed a chunk of the conversation and though you can pick out a word here and there, overall you have no clue what was said.



monty
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25 Jul 2008, 1:37 pm

>> Het is net zo klein mijn geld vervalsen is gestolen of per afdeling criminele recherché."

Das tut mir leid. Eg tala English, Deutch og Islensk, aber nicht Hollandische. Sorry about you losing your money. Or something. But not offended.



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25 Jul 2008, 1:49 pm

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Sorry about you losing your money.


Yes. I have yet to figure out why the criminal investigation department keeps steeling my counterfeit money :wink:



n4mwd
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25 Jul 2008, 1:57 pm

Did you miss the part where I said that there are places in south florida, a lot of places, where English is not spoken at all?? If you go into a store, you cannot get waited on because they will not speak english. Restaurants are the same thing.

Regarding the cuban flag thing, while there are many people down there who are anti English/American, there were also a bunch of ex-cubans who burned the cuban flag and flew the American flag instead. They were just as offended as the rest of America when the cuban flags were flown like that. A parade is one thing, but flying the cuban flag proudly is a different matter all together.

So basically, regardless of your race, if you hate America and English, then you don't need to be here.



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25 Jul 2008, 2:01 pm

Quote:
Did you miss the part where I said that there are places in south florida, a lot of places, where English is not spoken at all?? If you go into a store, you cannot get waited on because they will not speak english. Restaurants are the same thing.


So big deal. If it was a problem they wouldn't be able to maintain their business


Quote:
basically, regardless of your race, if you hate America and English, then you don't need to be here.


If you worship English, than you don't need to be here either. There is a reason English isn't the official language of the US and that reason isn't so you can lord your english over all the other people who've retained part of their culture upon moving here. If you are against the values that America was founded on, then why would you want to stay here? Americans tolerate and embrace other cultures, they dont' shove people because they are different



monty
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25 Jul 2008, 2:10 pm

n4mwd wrote:

Regarding the cuban flag thing, while there are many people down there who are anti English/American, there were also a bunch of ex-cubans who burned the cuban flag and flew the American flag instead. They were just as offended as the rest of America when the cuban flags were flown like that. A parade is one thing, but flying the cuban flag proudly is a different matter all together.



Did you ever wonder why the Cubans in Miami flew the Cuban flag during the Elian Gonzalez episode? Was it because they hate America? I don't think so. Lots of them wanted to let Castro know that he may be dictator of Cuba, but he isn't Cuba itself. They wanted to show community support against the idea of sending little Elian back to Cuba! The fact that the Cuban flag is not American does not mean it is anti-American.



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25 Jul 2008, 2:17 pm

He also believes in National Service that seems volunatary

http://everyoneserves.org/obama_outlines_service_plan

At first it will just target one group starting with the children under the guise of helpful volunteer work. Both front runners believe in this program.

So people who are good at looking at such implementations can see where it leads. It always starts out with "we're only trying to help"

It's not just Obama either. Mccain too.

http://everyoneserves.org/obama_outlines_service_plan



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25 Jul 2008, 2:20 pm

Triangular_Trees wrote:
Quote:
Did you miss the part where I said that there are places in south florida, a lot of places, where English is not spoken at all?? If you go into a store, you cannot get waited on because they will not speak english. Restaurants are the same thing.


So big deal. If it was a problem they wouldn't be able to maintain their business


Quote:
basically, regardless of your race, if you hate America and English, then you don't need to be here.


If you worship English, than you don't need to be here either. There is a reason English isn't the official language of the US and that reason isn't so you can lord your english over all the other people who've retained part of their culture upon moving here. If you are against the values that America was founded on, then why would you want to stay here? Americans tolerate and embrace other cultures, they dont' shove people because they are different


That is the most asinine thing anyone has ever said. You think its OK that there are places in America that don't speak English?? I'm not going to give this thread any further dignity by responding. If you want to burn the American flag, then by all means, do so. But I won't be doing that or having anything to do with people like you who do.



monty
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25 Jul 2008, 2:25 pm

catspurr wrote:
... under the guise of helpful volunteer work... So people who are good at looking at such implementations can see where it leads. It always starts out with "we're only trying to help"


Are you implying that both candidates are supporting a sinister plan? Is this really any different than the Peace Corps or CityCorps? A program that may have done some good, but which are pretty minor in terms of their budget or volunteer staff.