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Toy_Soldier
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15 Dec 2014, 7:35 am

No. Actually I think there will be an attempt, or attempts to wipe them off the face of the earth. But the militancy of the area will continue in one form or another for the foreseeable. It just keeps on mutating under the circumstances. ISIS specifically looks to me to be the result of two events, the US invasion of Iraq and the Syrian Civil War. The larger part of ISIS leadership is made up of Ex-Iraqis.



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15 Dec 2014, 7:38 am

I guess it depends on what's done about poverty, unemployment, aimlessness, and disillusionment among the younger (15-30) set. People, in general, want to feel empowered and important. Poor, pissed-off, frustrated young people lacking a path to a reasonably-defined success can be persuaded to do a lot of stupid things.

I can't say the style of military intervention we've pursued for the past decade-and-a-half has done them any harm, either. One could almost say we prepared the field for them in Iraq.


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Humanaut
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badgerface
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18 Dec 2014, 9:45 am

Religion of Peace. Obviously.


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trollcatman
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18 Dec 2014, 11:09 am

Humanaut wrote:


We already knew they were barbarians, they don't have to prove it to us every single day.



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18 Dec 2014, 12:25 pm

trollcatman wrote:
Humanaut wrote:


We already knew they were barbarians, they don't have to prove it to us every single day.


But the damnable thing is, they probably don't even realize that they are.


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badgerface
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18 Dec 2014, 12:27 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
But the damnable thing is, they probably don't even realize that they are.


That's religious brainwashing/indoctrination for you... :roll:


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white_as_snow
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18 Dec 2014, 4:59 pm

badgerface wrote:
Religion of Peace. Obviously.



Oh come on. Cant judge 1 billion people and a whole religion based on extremists. All religions/ideologys have extremists.



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18 Dec 2014, 5:02 pm

Btw, ISIS have attacked my country, Sweden. It was in 2011, in Stockholm. This was before the became this strong. Sweden have around 200 isis fighters right know. Some of them have return, but they dont get jail, only help from doctors.

Quite strange that you can go to a other contry and kill people, rape, and then return home like nothing as happend.



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19 Dec 2014, 6:26 am

white_as_snow wrote:
Oh come on. Cant judge 1 billion people and a whole religion based on extremists. All religions/ideologys have extremists.


The only problem with Islamic fundamentalism are the fundamentals of Islam.


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19 Dec 2014, 10:15 pm

white_as_snow wrote:
badgerface wrote:
Religion of Peace. Obviously.



Oh come on. Cant judge 1 billion people and a whole religion based on extremists. All religions/ideologys have extremists.


Name one other which has this many extremists and entire countries filled with them.



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23 Dec 2014, 9:52 am

Jacoby wrote:
They'll continue to get stronger and gain more sympathy in the Muslim world if the US continues the same foreign policy which created this group. They cannot be defeated by conventional military means, they were born in response to it.


US foreign policy created ISIS? Bull.

ISIS is the mutant offspring of militant Salfism, Ba'athist oppression, Saudi oil money and a population explosion that created a huge number of young men with no prospect for employment. The internal factors that have spawned ISIS are stronger than the influence of the US, though "W" Bush's half-assed strategy certainly helped to precipitate their formation.

But it really isn't all about the US.

Anyway, they won't succeed because they are hell-bent on religious cleansing. If they don't get hung up and destroyed in a war against Shia Islam, ISIS will inevitably seek to destroy Israel with weapons of mass destruction. Israel will respond with the arsenal of Dimona and the population of the central middle east will drop precipitously in a matter of hours.

Don't think that "understanding them" is going to lead to peaceful coexistance with these people. The more you know about them the less you will believe either that it's all the fault of the US and Western Colonialism or that compromise is possible. They rape children and call it righteous. They plan genocide with joy. The roots of this are deep and ancient.



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23 Dec 2014, 11:44 am

Adamantium wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
They'll continue to get stronger and gain more sympathy in the Muslim world if the US continues the same foreign policy which created this group. They cannot be defeated by conventional military means, they were born in response to it.


US foreign policy created ISIS? Bull.

ISIS is the mutant offspring of militant Salfism, Ba'athist oppression, Saudi oil money and a population explosion that created a huge number of young men with no prospect for employment. The internal factors that have spawned ISIS are stronger than the influence of the US, though "W" Bush's half-assed strategy certainly helped to precipitate their formation.

But it really isn't all about the US.

Anyway, they won't succeed because they are hell-bent on religious cleansing. If they don't get hung up and destroyed in a war against Shia Islam, ISIS will inevitably seek to destroy Israel with weapons of mass destruction. Israel will respond with the arsenal of Dimona and the population of the central middle east will drop precipitously in a matter of hours.

Don't think that "understanding them" is going to lead to peaceful coexistance with these people. The more you know about them the less you will believe either that it's all the fault of the US and Western Colonialism or that compromise is possible. They rape children and call it righteous. They plan genocide with joy. The roots of this are deep and ancient.


Like the Germans before the Nazis, these are not uncivilized stupid people and they're not joining ISIS because "they hate our freedom" or any of that garbage. If you look at the backgrounds of some of these people, you'll find them a lot of them are very educated. These young men join ISIS as a reaction to their situations and have been pushed to the edge, it honestly has very little to do with some ancient book. America definitely has the lion's share of the blame for ISIS because without our invasion and toppling of Saddam they would not exist as we know them today, Saddam might I mentioned who we were friends with before he got to close to our Saudi oil. The US also played a significant role in inflaming a civil war in Syria and transferred weapons from "rebels" that toppled Gaddafi to the rebels in Syria aka ISIS. There is a sectarian side to it but that's been there since the beginning of time almost. You can bring it back further too, the US's unwavering support of Israel in the Palestinian conflict and just the lines in the sand that British and French wrote in the sand after the Ottoman empire fell.



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23 Dec 2014, 3:13 pm

Jacoby wrote:
these are not uncivilized stupid people and they're not joining ISIS because "they hate our freedom" or any of that garbage. If you look at the backgrounds of some of these people, you'll find them a lot of them are very educated.

These are uncivilized people. Some of them are uncivilized people with advanced education. Their actions are not civilized.
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These young men join ISIS as a reaction to their situations and have been pushed to the edge, it honestly has very little to do with some ancient book.
You are right about the first part but wrong about the second. Their worship of that ancient book is really, really important to these guys, as is the idea of a caliphate.

Your vision of this history is amazingly america/euro-centric the people who are creating the new Islamic State are not the objects of western manipulation but actors. They are the creators of their own new reality and their idea of that ancient book is central to their vision for that process. If you don't understand this, then you are not paying attention, kufar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUjHb4C7b94



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24 Dec 2014, 8:44 pm

Adamantium wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
these are not uncivilized stupid people and they're not joining ISIS because "they hate our freedom" or any of that garbage. If you look at the backgrounds of some of these people, you'll find them a lot of them are very educated.

These are uncivilized people. Some of them are uncivilized people with advanced education. Their actions are not civilized.
Quote:
These young men join ISIS as a reaction to their situations and have been pushed to the edge, it honestly has very little to do with some ancient book.
You are right about the first part but wrong about the second. Their worship of that ancient book is really, really important to these guys, as is the idea of a caliphate.

Your vision of this history is amazingly america/euro-centric the people who are creating the new Islamic State are not the objects of western manipulation but actors. They are the creators of their own new reality and their idea of that ancient book is central to their vision for that process. If you don't understand this, then you are not paying attention, kufar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUjHb4C7b94


Following the path of the original caliphate. The ISIS battle plan is from Barbarians, Marauders, and Infidels. By Antonio Santosuosso. It was a how to plan that took a small group to knocking out the major powers of the day. When they had nothing it was based on empty space, the ability to move long distances quickly, and swiftly take important towns along the trade routes. No one knew how strong they were, where they were, and sending a force to defend it found nothing.

By control of some empty space, making some quick conquests, everyone thought they were behind every sand dune. All towns were under double guard, taxes were raised, trade stopped because they controlled the empty spaces. Maybe, sometimes.

Where they did take over, those that opposed died, then those who were criminal died, others were punished harshly, then taxes were reduced, a new well dug, trade increased, and swift and consistant justice was available. They were tolerant of other faiths, but did tax them more.

Their money was good, pure gold, silver without lead, and brass. Weights and measures were kept honest, and justice today was available in the market place. Interest was forbidden, land not used for years was open to any who would use it. Land reform, and becoming wealthy, a portion of their income was for charity.

Strictly enforced laws protected the inheretance of women, minors, and the old and infirm were to be supported.

One faith, one God, one Mosque, where all were equal, and a Mulla chosen by all as the model of a just and upstanding man to read the book, and speak of good community behavior. A social unity without class.

Public support of education, and of the fields of knowledge, medical, building, science, engineering, to make the next generation better.

Such was the rise of the First Caliphate, and they beat the Eastern Roman Empire.

In 1300 Iben Khaldun wrote about how all governments fall, and how the Islamic World was following that path. The basic values were being lost, and with it the unity that had made The Golden Era of Islam from 700 to 1300. Europe was a mess in 1300. Islam lead in all the arts and sciences. They all spoke Arabic, and they could read.

The leaders of the time thought it was just some old book, and the rantings of primitive people. They turned from the word of The Prophet, the social unity of their ancestors, and Islam fell from the favor of Allah.

The Islamic State is returning to those values, where the word of god is put before the word of cities, they are at war with civilization. From their enemies we hear, The Free Syrian Army trashes a town, does some rape and looting, taxes the survivors, but when IS takes a town, schools and hospitals are up and running, trash pickup, there is fuel and water, electric power, food in the market, and crime is not tolerated. Often the same local leaders stay in office, but now with the results of IS behind them. The highest legal and government power now comes from the Mosque.

It is a Moral Revolution. Islam was a system of social justice, that lead the world. It worked for seven hundred years. It did involve force of arms, but the lands gained never revolted, they accepted Islam as a better system.

Jihad is within and without, it is directing the heart and mind to the path that made Islam great. Ending evils, improving social justice, happens within each man. Dying for a worthy cause is better than living in evil.

It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.

His strength was that of a hundred men, for his heart was pure.



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25 Dec 2014, 12:01 am

Adamantium wrote:
They rape children and call it righteous. They plan genocide with joy. The roots of this are deep and ancient.

Could generations of inbreeding have something to do with it?