So confused right now.. what is her problem?

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Sanctus
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27 Mar 2015, 8:02 am

Hi,

I'm asking for help here, maybe someone can understand/explain this situation..

I'm in a band since about 6 months. We meet once a week and most of the time another woman from the band picks me up with her car and also takes me back home. Which is very convenient of course.

Now as most of us I have trouble with smalltalk. The drive is about 40 minutes and at the beginning she already expressed a hope that talking to me would make the time less boring. Well...

The first few times we had stuff to talk about (age, job, hobbies, whatever...) after that, not much. Sometimes we talked a few sentences, sometimes not at all.

The last few times it got a bit more again. I thought I was warming up and seemed more normal.

Today I get an email from her asking me 'why we never really talk normally' and that 'she's really annoyed about that today'. :?:

I don't get it. It sounds like she thinks I'm trying to be an as*hole? I mean.. we don't really know each other.. I have little to talk about, since I don't really do much.. and I don't feel comfortable discussing more personal stuff with someone who is still more or less a stranger.

I'm really confused why that would make her 'annoyed'. It's not like she has a right to expect me to talk...?

I don't know what to answer. It kinda makes me angry that she's being so bitchy about this all of a sudden?


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dossa
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27 Mar 2015, 9:22 am

She is not in the minority with car talking. I have a friend who is very much like that. For some people talking while driving makes time go faster, they have fun talking, they think it is what all people do because it is what they enjoy doing, the list goes on. I think a big part of it though has to do with hm, how to say it.. it is seen as a type of acceptance? If you two talk, you are then friends, you like her as a person, stuff like that. I do not know that she is pissed at you or anything, she might feel rejected? Like how extroverts are.. they feel refreshed and rejuvenated from a good talk, so it is really confusing to them when other people do not react the same way. It seems to me as though some of them take it personally. I try to remember to let them know it is nothing personal.

I would explain to her where you are coming from, as much as your comfort levels allow. Maybe express to her that it is not as though you dislike her, but rather conversations just do not come natural to you in the same way they do for her. Perhaps the two of you could figure out a middle ground? I dunno.

With my one friend who likes to talk and drive, I generally take some time before an outing with her to think of a few topics she and I would both be interested in so that I have things to discuss with her. I do not know if this woman you are driving around with is worth the time and effort to you, but it would seem a nice gesture on your part to show you are trying to work with her.


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Sanctus
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27 Mar 2015, 10:52 am

Yeah, I think I get what she means, it's just that, somehow this behaviour of her strikes me as really rude? Like, we don't know each other well but we were always friendly to each other and it's not like I told her to shut up or anything. Actually, whenever she starts to talk or asks me something, I answer and tell a little on my own, and then conversation kinda ends again. If she wants to talk more, she should do that! It's not like she's talking nonstop and I'm just not answering. She isn't saying much either. So it's kinda like she expects me to be her entertainer.

I will answer her and say it's nothing personal and that I just don't talk much. But I am really disappointed in her as a person, somehow. The wording of the email really sounds quite agressive and it's random how she writes this per email days after we last met.


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B19
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28 Mar 2015, 4:43 am

It's normal for YOU. My first thought was that you don't "owe" her an explanation. You could fob it off with something like "I get carsick quite easily and talking seems to make it worse". I would find an email like that unpleasant, indirect and hurtful. It's quite passive-aggressive. If it was hurtful to you, another option is to say so: "Your comment was hurtful". You don't have to explain, you don't have to apologise; you haven't done anything wrong. If however the situation is different - you want to develop a relationship with her (or already have)- then you may have to approach this differently, by explaining that you have a different style of relating to her, that you are not comfortable with small talk except in small doses, that chit chat is just not really your thing, it's nothing personal.

However she doesn't sound like someone who would be a good match for you, and what she wrote sounded a bit like a demand of you to conform to her expectations. But what about yours? Does it really matter what her problem is? Just don't let it be your problem. It's hers, and it is not reasonable to dump it on you. It may be one of those situations where the only response is to ust shrug your shoulders and say "whatever". And let it go. That will communicate a lot, in it's own way. Don't get attached to her opinion; it's just her opinion. Yours counts just as much, and to an extent we do teach others to stop disrespecting us by how we respond. If you get into lengthy self-explanations and self-justifications, you will be giving your power away and letting your manipulate you even more.



MollyTroubletail
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28 Mar 2015, 4:51 am

Being stuck in a car with someone who wants to talk to you for 40 minutes every single day seems like a kind of nightmare. Personally, I couldn't stand it. I would be looking for a way to get there on my own because at any random point in time she might suddenly decide you can't ride with her anymore.



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28 Mar 2015, 6:32 am

I think you need to give the woman a break.

A few things:

1. She has *already* been polite when she asked to talk and somehow make the ride go a little quicker. To say she is being rude because "all of a sudden" she brings this up is just not accurate. This is not a reaction that is coming out of nowhere with not polite preparation. She already gave you that with her initial (polite) request.

2. People have bad days. Maybe something happened that was making her feel bad, and this was something that was on her mind. She might have been able to say things in a better way if she was not in a bad mood. But, people get into bad moods and lose some self-control especially in regards to HOW they say things. It happens. Assume the best - that she was in a bad mood and it came out wrong. Her indication that she was really annoyed about that TODAY shows that something was putting her in an extra sour mood so that it was particularly bothering her THAT DAY.

3. She has probably been bothered about this for a while and was too POLITE to jump on you at the first offense. This "all of a sudden" means that she has been putting up with something that has been bothering her for a while. She may have thought that it was a minor thing that she shouldn't be upset about or something that she should be able to handle, but the aggravation built up. Add in a bad day, and boom, you have a nasty comment.

4. She didn't swear, call you names or attack your character. Her saying "why don't we talk normally" is her was of saying that something is off with you, but she can't explain it. Her negativity is the slightest bit rude on the scale of rude. You need to back off and get some perspective here. You didn't like her comment (understandably). But that doesn't make her a b***h.

She expressed her frustration. Now, you need to decide how you want to respond.

You said that if she wants to talk more, she should. You sound like you expect her to be able to carry the conversation all by herself and not have any difficulty with it. Maybe she does have some difficulty! Perhaps she likes to talk more than she is able to think of things to talk about. Some people are like that, myself included.

I would let her know it is not personal (if that is true, but the way you are jumping on her I'm not sure.)
I would tell her that you find it hard to find stuff to talk about.

You know, they have all these family games with cards that give ideas of things to talk about. If she is up to it, maybe the two of you can get one and the game cards will generate the conversation topics. That would take the pressure off both of you for coming up with things to talk about and provide the conversation needed to help the ride go quicker.

Consider also that not everyone is a great long-distance driver (to me, 40 minutes can be a long time.) Perhaps she gets tired driving and talking helps keep her focused and alert. Considering that you are getting a ride from this woman, I would try to be accommodating. She is giving you something quite valuable.



Sanctus
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28 Mar 2015, 9:12 am

Alright, so, yesterday I replied to her. Saying that I was surprised by this comment, that I just don't talk much or don't know what to say, and that sometimes I was tired and then I felt even less like talking. She wrote back, saying she had not expected that I would talk THIS little - I had already 'warned' her that I wasn't very talkative, back then - and that she had the feeling I just didn't want to talk to her, and that I didn't like her. So... yeah.. misunderstanding all around? I'm gonna reply again and say that it's not about her at all, but.. yeah.. I feel like this is gonna make it even more awkward in the car.


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28 Mar 2015, 9:27 am

My guess would be that, since conversation came so easily in the first couple of rides that you guys were able to find common ground. For me, my conversation abilities exist within a very narrow window of topics (there are only a handful of subjects that I feel comfortable talking about for extended periods).

Most NT people, however, like to have conversations about varied different topics and can stretch "small talk" for a full 40 minutes (this is what happened at work/school today, this is who I had dinner with last night, can you believe what Kanye said at the Grammy's, etc.). These kind of talks can be a struggle to carry on at length and conversations about more familiar topics can be more sustainable, but NT people don't always like to talk about the same topic ad nauseam.

A couple of suggestions:

1) As nerdygirl just said, she is giving you rides and she is talking to you about her frustration, so it seems like she wants to put some effort into resolving it. That is worth remembering.

2) It might be helpful to think back to what those earlier conversations were and see if you can revisit them or other similar topics. If you were talking about a particular band that you just heard, maybe talk about a similar band or a performance by that earlier band.

3) I do well with structured interactions, particularly games. Maybe trying to play a road game with her (one that she can do while driving) would be fun! When I had to do long road trips with my brother we used to play a word association game where we took commonly-joined words and took turns stringing them together (e.g. sail boat, boat house, house fly, fly swatter, etc.) until we couldn't go any further.

4) I tend to assume that most people on this forum are somewhere on the spectrum. If that's accurate for you, it might be helpful to disclose this to this woman and explain that one of the many things this means is that having extended conversations can be difficult. I don't know how comfortable you are with this woman or committed you are to being friends with her, but if you trust her with this information it could provide her with some context and may turn into a 40-minute conversation in and of itself. At the very least she'll know you aren't being an a**hole!


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28 Mar 2015, 9:28 am

Hi Sanctus,

This woman driving you to band practice is being nice and doing you a favor. I assume you are riding for free? She is not asking you to pitch in money for gas, so she probably at least would like to feel that you enjoy and appreciate being with her in the car ... so talking with her would be a very nice gesture on your part.

Yes, I definitely get how hard, uncomfortable, and mystifying small talk is ... I tend to get lost after "Hi, how are you?" ... especially if nothing major is going on in life.

A couple of things that might help.

When she asks you a question, and you answer for a little bit ... I bet she would absolutely love it if you then also asked her a question about herself. Everyone has a special interest, even an NT ... although of course their special interests tend to be things like football, what they bought at the store, music, movies, or TV. But she is asking you questions to show you that she's interested in you, and it seems to me that she would like you to do the same.

To me, that doesn't mean you need to talk during the entire 40-minute drive. Maybe there can be some sort of mutually agreeable and pleasant compromise.

And maybe one day you could offer to treat her to ice cream or coffee or surprise her with a thank-you card and a candy bar on the way home from band practice, as a way of saying thank you to her for driving you?

Wishing you the best ...

...


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28 Mar 2015, 10:17 am

Um...is it possible she likes you? Like maybe romantically?

Most of the time when people ask for explanations like that, it's because they like you and want something more to happen...friendship, romantic interest, whatever. I don't know what she wrote, but it doesn't really sound like she's trying to be bitchy. More like she's genuinely puzzled and trying to figure out why you're not warming up to her.

She's not being a b***h just by telling you she feels annoyed. That's a really normal human thing to say and feel. Again I don't know what else she wrote or how it came across. Just remember sometimes things like that don't come across well in writing.

In any case, you're not obligated to be a great conversationalist and keep her entertained just because she's giving you a ride. But she has the right to feel annoyed if the situation is making her uncomfortable.

I think some people feel really insecure around a quiet person. Like if a person comes from a really chatty family, maybe it just makes them uncomfortable because they're not used to it. Or it could remind them of someone else who uses silence to be passive-aggressive. And some people just get their egos bruised very easily if a person isn't paying them a lot of attention.



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28 Mar 2015, 2:16 pm

Moved from General Autism discussion.



Scaevitas
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28 Mar 2015, 2:44 pm

I don't personally find you wrong for not speaking to her, as you're not obligated to speak about anything. It would be ridiculous to just open up on the spot when someone is basically indirectly demanding you to come out of your comfort zone.

That's really cool that she allowing you to carpool with her and stuff, and I hope that helps you in your means to get to band practice, but I thought it *was* kind of sh***y for her to resort to sending you an email regarding how she felt about you being someone of few words.

People who have to mask themselves like that, when they have every other opportunity themselves to speak to you in person is just silly. I mean, what better chance that over the course of the next few rides she could be patient enough to respect you, and that you could gradually let her into where it'd be acceptable & comfortable to speak about anything.

The superficial stuff is pretty awkward because if you know you don't feel a certain way about the person and how they express themselves, then you know that every subsequent conversation or chit-chat will practically always be a let down.

If she has any interpersonal skills whatsoever, she'll learn to back-off and go at your own pace when it comes up to opening up.

You're not an as*hole. There's nothing wrong with you. If you don't sync with a certain person, then it's not a problem!

Just be humble, and if she can't respect that you aren't ready yet then let everything fall into place. Maybe she'll realize that she's not being a very good judge, either.

Personally, I haven't ever been dependent on other people outside of my family so I can't relate. Though I can admit that if someone was pressuring me to do something, I would politely tell them to eff off.



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28 Mar 2015, 4:38 pm

I've seen some great suggestions and theories offered here, and I'm inclined to support the kind of generous approach I'm seeing people lean towards. I would also consider the idea of listening to music in the car and letting whatever songs come up be a help. Sing along, use the subject of a song to prompt a discussion, or mention how much you like the band (or album or song) being played (or one that's similar, so either you might turn her on to music she hasn't heard before or you might discover the two of you have common taste in related bands). Also, since you're in a band together, discussing how you hope practice will go or how you felt it went might be good, especially if you can say positive things.

As you get to know each other more, there could also be the development of what my mother used to call "comfortable silences". Perhaps she's never heard of this before, but it's when two people start to know each other enough that it becomes okay to not always talk. If conversation is off and on over the course of the trip, rather than constant at the beginning and totally absent by the end, there can be comfortable silences in between periods of discussion. Why not see how she feels about that? Perhaps such an idea will make things less awkward over time.

I'll bet lots of people have a lot to say when they're new to each other and then talk less as they spend more time together. Meeting someone new causes a rush to exchange information. After that initial period, things slow down. It just happened more, and sooner, than she'd expected. But I think this may still work out, especially as she comes to better understand where you're coming from. And explaining that will give you two something to talk about - at least for a while.

But I also agree that you might want to look into alternate means of transportation. Having a choice makes things easier - sometimes for both parties involved. And it would've been nice for her to tell you politely, in person, how she was feeling. Those who feel as Scaevitas just stated make a good point. I try to accommodate others and their conversational styles, but I would never think it was okay to go to someone and criticize that person for not being conversational to the same degree that I am, whether they talk more or less.

Eventually, either you'll work this out with her, or the two of you will decide you're not compatible road trip companions. After all, I wouldn't get in someone's face for talking a lot, but I steer away from people who talk almost nonstop. It may simply be how they are, and that's fine for them and anyone else who doesn't mind. But it's too much for me. I can't take the overload time after time. If things don't work out, perhaps the worst part of this will be that moment when that truth gets acknowledged. Otherwise, maybe things will get better, and you'll be able to travel together in peace, one way or another.


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29 Mar 2015, 3:47 am

People who are shy and reserved with limited social skills often come off as being an as*hole when it isn't the case at all.


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30 Mar 2015, 12:02 am

Anymore, I can talk pretty well to people, as long as they talk themselves. What really annoys me, is when a shy person (usually women) makes a comment about me not talking very much. It's almost like they expect you to carry the conversation for them, and don't see that they aren't contributing to the discussion, either.



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30 Mar 2015, 1:54 am

Yeah, I guess I just generally don't understand why so many people think talking little is a bad or rude thing. We have cleared the situation so far, but she also mentioned that basically all band members talk too little for her and that she expected the band practise sessions would have more talking in between? Honestly, that's the kind of stuff I might even leave a band over. I'm not against talking after the practise, or doing stuff together on a different day, but band practise is band practise and if we make it into a social teaparty, we'll never get better...

And the other thing, as I already mentioned, it's not like she has been contributing significantly more to our 'conversation'. At the beginning, yeah, but then I always answered, and told a little on my own. I feel like it was at least 40/60. Well, we'll see, I'm seeing her again today.


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