How many people are seriously afraid of firearms?

Page 9 of 14 [ 212 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 ... 14  Next


Are you afraid of firearms?
I'm afraid of people using them wrongly, but am not afraid of their mere form. 40%  40%  [ 20 ]
I'm afraid of the mere form of firearms. 10%  10%  [ 5 ]
I don't have a problem with firearms. 32%  32%  [ 16 ]
Other stance regarding firearms that you may state below if you care to do so. 14%  14%  [ 7 ]
I don't have an opinion, I just want an option to click that says nothing. 4%  4%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 50

OliveOilMom
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Nov 2011
Age: 59
Gender: Female
Posts: 11,447
Location: About 50 miles past the middle of nowhere

28 Nov 2011, 1:11 pm

Icyclan wrote:
fraac wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
fraac wrote:
Icyclan wrote:
And it's alright for criminals to have guns, as long as law-abiding citizens don't?


Yes. Look at Britain. The police and public don't have guns, only criminals have guns. Who gets shot with guns? Criminals and associates of criminals. This is a perfectly reasonable situation, and it's probably an equilibrium situation so long as politicians don't get panicky.


What? I suppose it doesn't matter that the only thing necessary to fit into the category of "associate of a criminal" would be to make their acquaintance, willingly or unwillingly?


Acquaintances of criminals don't get shot. Look at who actually gets shot. I mean in the real world. In Britain, if you aren't criminal or knowingly associating with criminals you have to be astoundingly unlucky to get shot. I like those odds.

People like to have the illusion of control, that's the problem. Without thinking rationally most people would rather have a gun in a dangerous situation, because they think they're the one in control. Meanwhile everyone else is thinking the same. Idiots.


Here's a scenario: two people hold you up at gunpoint late at night and intend to rob you. Not a far-fetched situation in any of the world's big cities, bar a lucky few. Suddenly robber A accidentally blurts out the name of robber B. Robber B is currently on two strikes (or the equivalent for that particular nation) and is obviously worried about being identified. He's getting twitchy and he's nervously thinking about his next move.

Now, assuming only robber B is armed, would you feel more in control if you had an easy to reach, concealed firearm, or if you were completely defenceless?


This is how I would handle that situation! "Oh My God, RObber B! It IS you! It's been forever! Don't you recognize me? I haven't seen you since 11th grade! How you been? How's your Mama? Oh, put that down right now! Have you talked to slu*ty Girl D from school? I heard she married that one boy she was dating and then divorced. Here, lets forget this and go get a drink, you are obviously paying now. Well, give that back and I'll pay. Come on! It'll be just like old times! Where's your car at?"

That will completely blow their minds! Especially if you do know them.

Of course, that could make you more likely to get shot.

Frances



fraac
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,865

28 Nov 2011, 1:33 pm

OliveOilMom wrote:
fraac wrote:
Very few gun deaths are premeditated murders. Most are escalated conflagrations. They wouldn't happen if guns were unavailable. Someone would get beaten up or maybe stabbed and everyone would live. I don't think that understanding this is a cultural difference, pastafarian. Failing to understand it seems almost wilful, because it's not complicated.


I agree with you that it wouldn't happen if guns were unavailable. The issue we disagree on I'm assuming, is that if they aren't available to me and you, would a psycho up the street be able to get one and use it on us.

Available = simple to access. Banned = those who follow the law will not own one. Not existing any more is the only way for guns to ever be not available to anyone.


Quote:
Just really though, if the bad guys have one, I want one to even my odds against them, if there is a chance I may end up facing a bad guy.

Frances


I don't care if the psycho up the street has a gun. He's extraordinarily unlikely to use it against me. But far more likely, I expect, if he knew I had a gun. Good and bad are subjective - everyone sees themselves as the good guy and anyone bothering them as the bad guy, so I can easily see a situation where someone sees you or me as the bad guy, and when that happens I'd rather not have a gun. Maybe a factor is I'm quite big and don't feel threatened around people. I still wouldn't want British women to carry guns though. Pepper spray seems reasonable.



fraac
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,865

28 Nov 2011, 1:44 pm

Quote:
Here's a scenario: two people hold you up at gunpoint late at night and intend to rob you. Not a far-fetched situation in any of the world's big cities, bar a lucky few


I have never heard of anyone being held up at at gunpoint. Your view is hopelessly US-centric. Maybe it happens in Cape Town or Tblisi or Bogota, I wouldn't know. It's not really a first world problem.



OliveOilMom
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Nov 2011
Age: 59
Gender: Female
Posts: 11,447
Location: About 50 miles past the middle of nowhere

28 Nov 2011, 1:52 pm

fraac wrote:
OliveOilMom wrote:
fraac wrote:
Very few gun deaths are premeditated murders. Most are escalated conflagrations. They wouldn't happen if guns were unavailable. Someone would get beaten up or maybe stabbed and everyone would live. I don't think that understanding this is a cultural difference, pastafarian. Failing to understand it seems almost wilful, because it's not complicated.


I agree with you that it wouldn't happen if guns were unavailable. The issue we disagree on I'm assuming, is that if they aren't available to me and you, would a psycho up the street be able to get one and use it on us.

Available = simple to access. Banned = those who follow the law will not own one. Not existing any more is the only way for guns to ever be not available to anyone.


Quote:
Just really though, if the bad guys have one, I want one to even my odds against them, if there is a chance I may end up facing a bad guy.

Frances


I don't care if the psycho up the street has a gun. He's extraordinarily unlikely to use it against me. But far more likely, I expect, if he knew I had a gun. Good and bad are subjective - everyone sees themselves as the good guy and anyone bothering them as the bad guy, so I can easily see a situation where someone sees you or me as the bad guy, and when that happens I'd rather not have a gun. Maybe a factor is I'm quite big and don't feel threatened around people. I still wouldn't want British women to carry guns though. Pepper spray seems reasonable.


Well, he wouldn't be likely to victimize you either in the first place if he knew you had a gun. I know quite a few criminals, from my younger days, and they never wanted to get shot at, or shot. So avoiding armed people was a big thing. They also didn't want to go to the electric chair, which was how we killed killers then, so they didn't seek out those with guns to rob.

It's a "Duh" moment.

Oh wait, if they know you have a gun, and they know Frances up the street does not have a gun - which I don't - who will they rob? My caustic wit has never been lethal as far as I know. However, I might talk them to death. Therefore, they will rob me! Because I can't shoot them when they do! I can only yell at them and talk about how they were rude to me the other day in Wal Mart and guilt them into possibly leaving something for me, of myown stuff, which they would be taking from me.

I also never feel afraid of walking at night in any place. I don't know why. I feel that those criminals, lurking in the shadows, are people like everybody else, and a simple "Hey, how you doing?" will freak them right the h*** out if said in a natural tone of voice and they won't bother me.

It usually works. Wow. Rocket surgery here I come!

Or brain science.

Frances



Burnbridge
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Aug 2011
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 971
Location: Columbus, Ohio

28 Nov 2011, 2:07 pm

fraac wrote:
Quote:
Here's a scenario: two people hold you up at gunpoint late at night and intend to rob you. Not a far-fetched situation in any of the world's big cities, bar a lucky few


I have never heard of anyone being held up at at gunpoint. Your view is hopelessly US-centric. Maybe it happens in Cape Town or Tblisi or Bogota, I wouldn't know. It's not really a first world problem.


This used to happen a lot in my old neighborhood in Minneapolis, USA. 3 or 4 times a month, within a few blocks of my apartment. Fancy neighborhood, it was. lots of irresponsible drunk kids with money in their pockets.

This happens in 1st world America because guns are everywhere, easy to come by.

Happened to me once. I thought it was kind of funny, since I was completely broke (and am not paranoid about dying). I said "Do I look like I have any money? What, are you trying to steal my food stamps? You really going to shoot me for that? If you want, we can go to the grocery store and I can get you some food." I showed the guy my empty wallet, he got a closer look at how beat up my clothing and shoes were, the. He got self conscious and just ran away.


_________________
No dx yet ... AS=171/200,NT=13/200 ... EQ=9/SQ=128 ... AQ=39 ... MB=IntJ


iamnotaparakeet
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 25,091
Location: 0.5 Galactic radius

28 Nov 2011, 2:14 pm

Burnbridge wrote:
fraac wrote:
Quote:
Here's a scenario: two people hold you up at gunpoint late at night and intend to rob you. Not a far-fetched situation in any of the world's big cities, bar a lucky few


I have never heard of anyone being held up at at gunpoint. Your view is hopelessly US-centric. Maybe it happens in Cape Town or Tblisi or Bogota, I wouldn't know. It's not really a first world problem.


This used to happen a lot in my old neighborhood in Minneapolis, USA. 3 or 4 times a month, within a few blocks of my apartment. Fancy neighborhood, it was. lots of irresponsible drunk kids with money in their pockets.

This happens in 1st world America because guns are everywhere, easy to come by.

Happened to me once. I thought it was kind of funny, since I was completely broke (and am not paranoid about dying). I said "Do I look like I have any money? What, are you trying to steal my food stamps? You really going to shoot me for that? If you want, we can go to the grocery store and I can get you some food." I showed the guy my empty wallet, he got a closer look at how beat up my clothing and shoes were, the. He got self conscious and just ran away.


You're lucky that he didn't just tell you to shut up by using his pistol.



Burnbridge
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Aug 2011
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 971
Location: Columbus, Ohio

28 Nov 2011, 2:16 pm

Please note also that I went into the PTSD "cold place" while this was happening. The guy's hand was shaking as he held the gun, so I figured he was uncomfortable with holding it and had likely never shot a person. I was doing a mental inventory of what was accessible on my belt that I could stab him with, in the arm or wrist to force him to drop the weapon. So that I could acquire it.

And had it gone to that point, I expected that I would have obtained the weapon and shot him, and likel also been injured in the process. He was hot headed and panicky, I was dead cold inside Ice tends to beat fire in those situations. That time it did. With words.


_________________
No dx yet ... AS=171/200,NT=13/200 ... EQ=9/SQ=128 ... AQ=39 ... MB=IntJ


Burnbridge
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Aug 2011
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 971
Location: Columbus, Ohio

28 Nov 2011, 2:19 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
You're lucky that he didn't just tell you to shut up by using his pistol.


I do not believe luck was a factor. Guns are typically used to intimidate in those situations, by those who do not trust their own skills/ferocity enough to be able to burgle without them. I was unimpressed with having the gun pointed at me. That, I believe, was the deciding factor.

If I was carrying a gun and had an attitude of "How dare he hold me up! I'll shoot that jerk before he shoots me!" one or both of us would've been in the hospital, or dead. Likewise, if I'd been terrified of the gun and screamed, I would have been shot as the assailant panicked.

The fact is, because I was unimpressed by the weapon, I was in control.


_________________
No dx yet ... AS=171/200,NT=13/200 ... EQ=9/SQ=128 ... AQ=39 ... MB=IntJ


iamnotaparakeet
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 25,091
Location: 0.5 Galactic radius

28 Nov 2011, 2:25 pm

Burnbridge wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
You're lucky that he didn't just tell you to shut up by using his pistol.


I do not believe luck was a factor. Guns are typically used to intimidate in those situations, by those who do not trust their own skills/ferocity enough to be able to burgle without them. I was unimpressed with having the gun pointed at me. That, I believe, was the deciding factor.

If I was carrying a gun and had an attitude of "How dare he hold me up! I'll shoot that jerk before he shoots me!" one or both of us would've been in the hospital, or dead. Likewise, if I'd been terrified of the gun and screamed, I would have been shot at the assailant panicked.


Dude, not everyone who is threatening another with a deadly weapon or is being threatened with one is a Marlene Fisher. Yes, smarter people would not desire to kill due to the potential consequences, but in a blue state like Minnesota they get a lifetime of free room and board for committing murder, and if they kill one of their inmates they even get their own private room away from everyone else. So your gamble with a person who didn't even at first bother to notice that even your clothes betrayed your poverty was unwise. You should have been handing them your wallet as you were speaking rather than trying to give them a lecture about profiling first.



Burnbridge
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Aug 2011
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 971
Location: Columbus, Ohio

28 Nov 2011, 2:37 pm

I don't know who is a Marlene Fisher. Let me look that up. No dice, google yields impertinent results. Please clarify.

I am fairly certain the guy was withdrawing from crack or something similar. His hands were shaking pretty bad. He was not rational. I doubt the legal consequences of imprisonment or capital punishment ever crossed his mind. Consequences are largely unimportant to the desperate.

Yes, I did show him my empty wallet as I talked.

It was not my rational argument that swayed him. It was my lack of hostility, and lack of reaction in the face of hostility. Talking calmly was the way I failed to react in a predictable manner.

The situation was scary for me, but only after the fact when the adrenaline wore off and I worried that I might have killed him against my own will. That I have that capability in me. That's scary.


_________________
No dx yet ... AS=171/200,NT=13/200 ... EQ=9/SQ=128 ... AQ=39 ... MB=IntJ


fraac
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,865

28 Nov 2011, 2:39 pm

OliveOilMom wrote:
Well, he wouldn't be likely to victimize you either in the first place if he knew you had a gun.


By victimise do you just mean rob? Because that's pretty harmless, and in most places rare. Murder is worse than robbery, don't you think? I suppose if you were afraid of robbery you'd risk a higher chance of death to avoid robbery. Yeah, let's say in an American town you have a 10% chance of being robbed and a 0.1% chance of being killed, but if you carry a gun you have a 1% chance of robbery and a 1% chance of being killed. You'd probably take that even though your chances of being killed increased tenfold, because 10% is the only number you're really feeling there.



Wolfheart
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,971
Location: Kent, England

28 Nov 2011, 2:41 pm

Asp-Z wrote:
Why do you assume that legalising something means it can't be regulated?

It would have been f**king brilliant if the shopkeepers were armed during the riots, I would have loved to watch the rioters get shot as they tried to steal from hard working people and burn down the homes of innocent families. The riots would have been over a lot quicker too - the pathetic half-wits wouldn't have looked so tough against an AK47, I'm sure.

In fact, a game called Shoot the Rioters would be brilliant as well. It could be the next Call of Duty :wink:


Violence only begets more violence so if shopkeepers armed themselves, criminals would also arm themselves and it would escalate the rate of crime, the situation would have been much more difficult to control if firearms had been present and many more lives of innocent people and police officers may have been lost. I believe the UK police only use guns as a last resort or if it is completely necessary to do so, It's also far easier to restrain and control a group of unarmed criminals than it is to restrain an armed criminal or a group of armed criminals. I don't believe in legalizing any weapon, let me show you a chart that proves a firearm ban is good.

Image

I don't see the United Kingdom on that list, in fact the United Kingdom is 39th on that list, right at the bottom of the chart.



Last edited by Wolfheart on 28 Nov 2011, 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

iamnotaparakeet
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 25,091
Location: 0.5 Galactic radius

28 Nov 2011, 2:42 pm

Burnbridge wrote:
I don't know who is a Marlene Fisher. Let me look that up. No dice, google yields impertinent results. Please clarify.


Nemesis, by Isaac Asimov.



pastafarian
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Aug 2011
Age: 57
Gender: Female
Posts: 549
Location: London

28 Nov 2011, 3:45 pm

9, 369 murders by firearms in one year.

Thats the "Doh" moment

Wolfheart wrote:
Image

I don't see the United Kingdom on that list, in fact the United Kingdom is 39th on that list, right at the bottom of the chart.



Asp-Z
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Dec 2009
Age: 30
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,018

28 Nov 2011, 4:01 pm

Wolfheart wrote:
I don't believe in legalizing any weapon, let me show you a chart that proves a firearm ban is good.

Image

I don't see the United Kingdom on that list, in fact the United Kingdom is 39th on that list, right at the bottom of the chart.


Let me show you some events from the real world:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-i ... t-15868104
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sh ... e-15895374
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-15815271
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-ma ... r-15803471
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-ma ... r-15788211
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-15754020
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-no ... e-15739686
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-me ... e-15712585
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-15705847
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-15681296
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-15666999
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-15520006

And that's just from this month, and it's not even everything. Each of those articles is about a separate shooting somewhere in the UK.

And what about attacks using knives instead of guns? Well, s**t, there's loads of those too. Again, this is just from the past month, and each article refers to a separate incident within the UK.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-15927548
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-be ... s-15926734
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-15918233
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-i ... t-15915972
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-15902509
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-15873652
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-15860980
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-e ... e-15860112
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-15854224
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-15837521
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-15818648
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-15820473
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-15814411
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-15814185

...And I could go on with that one, too, but frankly it's too depressing and I have better things I could be doing.

Point is, don't fool yourself into thinking the UK is a safe place just because guns are illegal. As has been repeated many times, criminals still have them and, in many times during the past month alone, shoot people with them, and if they can't get guns or don't want to, they'll use an alternate weapon instead.



Taupey
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Feb 2010
Age: 61
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,168
Location: Somewhere between juvenile and senile.

28 Nov 2011, 4:16 pm

Now there is something missing in this thread too.


_________________
Whatever you think you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, magic and power in it. ~Goethe

Your Aspie score: 167 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 35 of 200
You are very likely an Aspie.