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makuranososhi
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05 May 2010, 6:25 pm

This is the Women's Discussion subforum; while the input of male members is not restricted, there is the expectation of appropriate behavior and response which has not been shown by a number in this conversation. In turn, further engaging those individuals instead of reporting the problem only furthers the problem instead of proving productive. In the shortest form - knock it off, period. If you have nothing productive to say, keep the misogyny to yourself and create your own thread (in L&D, InDepthAdult, Adult, where-have-you) regarding your own personal experiences. But enough is enough - consider this to be a warning to all involved, including those whose "contributions" were removed. Further instances will have further consequences.


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06 May 2010, 9:08 am

OK, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings. However, I did mean to try to uncover different and unfamiliar aspects of the issues being presented here, as well as improve my understanding of what things look like from the other side, and some of the other posts have been enlightening. We can all learn a lot if we can hang on, and not get too queasy when insecurities are revealed. Would opinion of me be different if I had said I was a woman? I'm really not a misogynist, nor a rapist, nor a murderer, nor a terrorist, nor a cannibal.

The discussion really hit a nerve with me because, it started with the basic thought that a woman may seek to reduce her outward attractiveness to avoid men, who are supposedly mostly creepy losers. The misandrist label might be applied to some as readily as the misogynist label comes out for guys who challenge this idea. I'm a bit sensitive about the creepiness issue, because I know how easily men can be branded as creeps, and from my point of view it seems like a ridiculously difficult barrier for starting relationships. Be that as it may, if one really wishes to repel the opposite sex, then this can be done more effectively through what is said, than by changing superficial appearance.

The claim of receiving an excess of unwanted attention, combined with the negative attitude toward this attention, sounded like a "sour grapes" kind of bragging about something that seems less and less plausible the more I think about it. I could be wrong, but that's how it sounded, and most of the lights on my BS detector are going off. It reminded me of an interaction I had with an overweight woman last summer. I was drunk, and I was making friendly conversation with her. At some point I might have gotten a bit too close, but I did not go into anything sexual. She left hurriedly, maybe she thought I was hitting on her, but it seemed like she might have been a bit bitter about things. Later I thought, maybe I wouldn't want to date her anyway, not because she's overweight, but because she's bitter, if I interpreted things correctly, but I don't know.



jc6chan
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07 May 2010, 2:30 pm

Just don't comb your hair and get it all dirty. Also, tuck in your pants and pull your socks REAL high.



wendigopsychosis
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10 May 2010, 7:41 pm

Back when I had a pixie cut and didn't wear makeup, men not only didn't talk to me, but told me things like, "If only you were sexy, you'd be the perfect girlfriend."

So if you feel like sacrificing your hair...


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hale_bopp
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10 May 2010, 11:32 pm

Nostromos wrote:
So "creepy" means:


-30 years or more your senior

-poor personal hygeine

-unwashed clothing, esp. polyester

-wanton disregard for personal space

-breathing on you

-expressing interest in cutting your hair


So a guy eleven years your senior with good personal hygeine and clean new clothes could approach you, talk about something non-haircutting related, and it would be acceptable?


Are you trying to take the piss?... thats NOT what she said.



hale_bopp
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11 May 2010, 5:01 am

sgrannel wrote:
What are the odds that all these men really are creepy losers? Could it be that you have been defining any man who approaches you as a creepy loser only because he approached you? Why would you do that? To me this behavior seems creepy, and in the long run it will also make you a loser.

Like it or not, all these guys who have been approaching you are probably somewhere near your level. If you call all these guys losers, then the NT interpretation is that you're also indirectly calling yourself a loser. I don't want to be called a loser and I don't want to hang out with anyone who has indirectly called herself a loser, which means that what you have been saying here makes you appear undesirable to me even though I have no idea what you look like. Are you happy now?


Thats the biggest pile of s**t i've ever heard.

Everyone gets approached by awful, creepy men, even "pretty" girls. For some reason some of us attract creeps more than others. I get people with intellectual disibilities hitting on me, Men who seem like they have no social skills and invade your space, the ones who just sit ad stare at you from the corner before coming over, it makes you very uncomfortable. I may not be perfect but I am NOT to their level.

I hope I'm undesireable to you too, you sound bitter and concieted about something thats not even the case here.

I get some decent guys who I'm just not interested in come upto me, and yeah thats fine, not really looking to date. We aren't talking about EVERYONE who approaches us. We are talking about CREEPY men who approach us. This member unfortunately seems to get more creepy ones than normal ones, so she feels like she can only attract creepy men, which, I assure you, everyone gets.

Also creepy men see social awkwardness in women as an opening. It probably doesn't help having aspergers. The best thing to ward off creepy men is confidence. If you can't do that, then just don't look at them, and ignore them if they invade your personal space.



hale_bopp
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11 May 2010, 5:10 am

sgrannel wrote:
The claim of receiving an excess of unwanted attention, combined with the negative attitude toward this attention, sounded like a "sour grapes"


What do you expect? Someone to go, ow wow, how neat! I keep getting hit on by awful men who make me feel uncomfortable!
Get with it.

Even if you want attention from anyone, I can assure you most people DON'T. Even ask some of the males here who moan about being single if they would want some girl with Downs syndrome constantly coming onto them? I doubt it.



wendigopsychosis
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11 May 2010, 6:41 am

hale_bopp wrote:
sgrannel wrote:
What are the odds that all these men really are creepy losers? Could it be that you have been defining any man who approaches you as a creepy loser only because he approached you? Why would you do that? To me this behavior seems creepy, and in the long run it will also make you a loser.

Like it or not, all these guys who have been approaching you are probably somewhere near your level. If you call all these guys losers, then the NT interpretation is that you're also indirectly calling yourself a loser. I don't want to be called a loser and I don't want to hang out with anyone who has indirectly called herself a loser, which means that what you have been saying here makes you appear undesirable to me even though I have no idea what you look like. Are you happy now?


Thats the biggest pile of sh** i've ever heard.

Everyone gets approached by awful, creepy men, even "pretty" girls. For some reason some of us attract creeps more than others. I get people with intellectual disibilities hitting on me, Men who seem like they have no social skills and invade your space, the ones who just sit ad stare at you from the corner before coming over, it makes you very uncomfortable. I may not be perfect but I am NOT to their level.

I hope I'm undesireable to you too, you sound bitter and concieted about something thats not even the case here.

I get some decent guys who I'm just not interested in come upto me, and yeah thats fine, not really looking to date. We aren't talking about EVERYONE who approaches us. We are talking about CREEPY men who approach us. This member unfortunately seems to get more creepy ones than normal ones, so she feels like she can only attract creepy men, which, I assure you, everyone gets.

Also creepy men see social awkwardness in women as an opening. It probably doesn't help having aspergers. The best thing to ward off creepy men is confidence. If you can't do that, then just don't look at them, and ignore them if they invade your personal space.


Hear hear :)

The type of men who approach a woman has nothing to do with the woman, it has to do with the men.
My male friends don't understand this either, I think because women aren't taught to approach men, and so they're NEVER approached, and thus see any attention as positive attention.

I'm not a super model, but I'm not bad looking, and still the only people who hit on me are homeless drunks. This isn't because my "level" is homeless drunks! It's because homeless drunks have no inhibitions, so they're not struck with shy feelings upon seeing a pretty girl, they just shout things about million dollar smiles and such.

It's not the woman's fault if the only men who are uninhibited enough to approach her are creeps; just think about the kind of people who have no problem walking up to a strange woman and hitting on her.


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sgrannel
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11 May 2010, 10:40 am

hale_bopp wrote:
I get people with intellectual disibilities hitting on me, Men who seem like they have no social skills and invade your space, the ones who just sit ad stare at you from the corner before coming over, it makes you very uncomfortable. I may not be perfect but I am NOT to their level.


Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! Isn't AS considered to be a sort of mild disability? What about spelling errors? Why would you fault a guy for something that may be similar to something with which you, yourself have been diagnosed? Just to be clear, I don't think anyone should say "yes" to just anyone who approaches. Do these guys a favor and keep them open and available for someone who does find them attractive.

Yes, I have also been one to stare from a distance. However, I am getting a better understanding of why not to do this, and nowadays I will only talk to new women who know someone else I know. Otherwise, I risk being judged as creepy and at times even my own response can be bad if I'm feeling compromised or if the woman doesn't know anyone I know or there are only other strangers around. Also, not every woman thinks I'm creepy. The ones who don't think I'm creepy usually have a lot of relationship experience and are already in relationships.



hartzofspace
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11 May 2010, 11:12 am

sgrannel wrote:
hale_bopp wrote:
I get people with intellectual disibilities hitting on me, Men who seem like they have no social skills and invade your space, the ones who just sit ad stare at you from the corner before coming over, it makes you very uncomfortable. I may not be perfect but I am NOT to their level.


Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! Isn't AS considered to be a sort of mild disability? What about spelling errors? Why would you fault a guy for something that may be similar to something with which you, yourself have been diagnosed? Just to be clear, I don't think anyone should say "yes" to just anyone who approaches. Do these guys a favor and keep them open and available for someone who does find them attractive.

Yes, I have also been one to stare from a distance. However, I am getting a better understanding of why not to do this, and nowadays I will only talk to new women who know someone else I know. Otherwise, I risk being judged as creepy and at times even my own response can be bad if I'm feeling compromised or if the woman doesn't know anyone I know or there are only other strangers around. Also, not every woman thinks I'm creepy. The ones who don't think I'm creepy usually have a lot of relationship experience and are already in relationships.

I don't get why YOU are getting defensive, when the OP was not calling YOU a creepy guy. In fact, she was not talking about you at all! Your comments approach paranoia, IMO. But then, if the shoe fits, by all means wear it.


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one1ai
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11 May 2010, 2:07 pm

I'm a guy by the way and I suggest to all male-fellows to not continue any flame argumentation on this thread. With that I will only mention what an aspie woman told me on what she does.

She wears a wedding ring while she gives private lessons to students in primary and secondary education. It is to ward off the child's male parents. As she continues to wear it I guess it works.

To let some male students concentrate on the lesson she wears a sweater that covers her bra/(breasts). That will probably also help against male parents of the student which can be a great problem.



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11 May 2010, 4:06 pm

sgrannel wrote:
hale_bopp wrote:
I get people with intellectual disibilities hitting on me, Men who seem like they have no social skills and invade your space, the ones who just sit ad stare at you from the corner before coming over, it makes you very uncomfortable. I may not be perfect but I am NOT to their level.


Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! Isn't AS considered to be a sort of mild disability? What about spelling errors? Why would you fault a guy for something that may be similar to something with which you, yourself have been diagnosed? Just to be clear, I don't think anyone should say "yes" to just anyone who approaches. Do these guys a favor and keep them open and available for someone who does find them attractive.

Yes, I have also been one to stare from a distance. However, I am getting a better understanding of why not to do this, and nowadays I will only talk to new women who know someone else I know. Otherwise, I risk being judged as creepy and at times even my own response can be bad if I'm feeling compromised or if the woman doesn't know anyone I know or there are only other strangers around. Also, not every woman thinks I'm creepy. The ones who don't think I'm creepy usually have a lot of relationship experience and are already in relationships.


No, it is not the pot calling the kettle black. I do not have an intellectual disibility. I have aspergers, which is seen as a disibility, but I tend to act normal or I risk creeping people out myself. Aspie guys can learn to act in a way thats not seen as creepy, if I can. Anyway, I wasn't talking about aspie guys when I said that. Aspergers is not an intellectual disibility.

Social awkwardness is ok, i'm not really attracted to it but socially awkward does not have to mean creepy.



sgrannel
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12 May 2010, 10:39 pm

hale_bopp wrote:
No, it is not the pot calling the kettle black. I do not have an intellectual disibility. I have aspergers, which is seen as a disibility, but I tend to act normal or I risk creeping people out myself. Aspie guys can learn to act in a way thats not seen as creepy, if I can. Anyway, I wasn't talking about aspie guys when I said that. Aspergers is not an intellectual disibility.

Social awkwardness is ok, i'm not really attracted to it but socially awkward does not have to mean creepy.


Well, OK so it's not an intellectual disability insofar as one's intellectual capacities are not affected by it. Which is good, because if it were an intellectual disability, then I guess that'd be real bad! :roll: I can act "normal" for a limited time, but sooner or later, the real self gets through. Then the cannibal jokes come out. How exactly does one act "not creepy"? I keep catching myself either staring too much or not staring enough apparently. However, attraction goes something beyond merely not creepy. I'm not sure I can ever get there. I'll probably be like Mr. Burns when I get old.



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14 May 2010, 10:36 pm

Wear masculine clothes. That's what I do. :)


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14 May 2010, 10:59 pm

CockneyRebel wrote:
Wear masculine clothes. That's what I do. :)


How well that works might depend on body type. I used to wear a lot of masculine clothing -- men's clothing, in fact, as I was a sales associate in a men's clothing store. On me, all the masculine clothing did was emphasize my feminity. I'm not a large person to begin with, and the men's clothing, even in the smallest size, was big enough that I looked smaller than I was. I'm small-boned, have always been seen as smaller than I am, and people seemed to think I was some kind of delicate china doll. I got comments like "pixielike" and "adorable" from various sources. It certainly didn't seem to put men off.

I actually got less attention when I dressed in casual women's clothes! Sometimes I'd get a bit of gentle teasing from my guy friends ("Oh my god, Rose is a girl!") and stuff, but I didn't mind ("Yeah, check it out, boobs and everything!"). I think a woman blessed with a stronger physique than my own might cut back on unwanted attention by dressing in a masculine way, but it didn't seem to work for me.



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23 May 2010, 4:57 pm

The worse you try and make yourself look wont get rid of creeps, like someone said already, its possible if you look worse you get more because they think they have a chance.

Confidence gets rid of them.