WOMEN ONLY PLEASE : This dame freaks me out Help ! !

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HisMom
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19 Feb 2016, 11:55 pm

This is so freaky that I am really angry about this. My son has a new behaviorist supervising his ABA programme and this woman creeps the heck out of me by staring at my chest at any given opportunity. She's married (don't know if it's to a man or another woman, you never know in my neck of the woods !) and today she really angered me by failing to make ANY eye contact through out our meeting to discuss my son's programme, and stared at my chest when she wasn't looking at her notes.

I am so pissed, I wanted to reach out and smack her ! I am a heterosexual, married woman and this is just freaking creepy. I did ask her a couple of times if there was anything on my shirt, and she just said "NO". She also sat so close to me that I had to PHYSICALLY back away from her. Thankfully, one of my friends called me mid-meeting, so I told her (my friend) in my language that I needed an escape route, then "accidentally" hit the speaker button, and my friend quickly made up an excuse and yelled at me in English to get home ASAP.

The whole experience has left me really angry. I had a bad day overall, my son kept having potty accidents, so to have to tolerate this nonsense on top of my son's struggles leaves me seething. Anyone else had this experience where ANOTHER WOMAN kept staring at you inappropriately ? How did you deal with it ? Help, ladies ! !!


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cathylynn
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19 Feb 2016, 11:58 pm

i'd ask for a different therapist, since this one doesn't seem to be able to respond to obvious cues.



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20 Feb 2016, 12:14 am

Not assuming anything, but it's hard not to look at a woman's boobies when they're, you know, hanging out or of an unnatural size. I try to look like I didn't notice but I feel really awkward and worry about my sexuality. :oops:

It's not really sexual or anything, right? I mean, I would notice if a guy's rear end was hanging out of his pants. When I was a teenager I had a therapist who had braces on her teeth, and I couldn't stop looking at them, and she told me so. Doesn't mean I'm attracted to braces, and anything was easier than making eye contact. She was always getting after me for twirling my shoelaces or playing with the fabric on my jacket and not looking at her.

I guess constantly looking at another woman's chest would be creepy. And this is ABA, and I've read all kinds of horror stories about it. Using cruel, abusive punishments on autistic people just for doing what they do - even crying or getting upset. Most sane people would not use electric shocks on a NT kid for crying or getting upset. 8O



HisMom
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20 Feb 2016, 12:26 am

lostonearth35 wrote:
Not assuming anything, but it's hard not to look at a woman's boobies when they're, you know, hanging out or of an unnatural size. I try to look like I didn't notice but I feel really awkward and worry about my sexuality. :oops:

It's not really sexual or anything


It's pretty damned sexual, creepy and harassing to me. No, my breasts weren't "hanging out" nor are they an "unnatural size". Modesty is a thing with me, and the only way I'd be clothed more is if I wore a whole-body burqa, so I don't know where you got that from.

lostonearth35 wrote:
I guess constantly looking at another woman's chest would be creepy. And this is ABA, and I've read all kinds of horror stories about it. Using cruel, abusive punishments on autistic people just for doing what they do - even crying or getting upset. Most sane people would not use electric shocks on a NT kid for crying or getting upset. 8O


ABA does NOT use electric shocks on autistic children. If anyone tried to shock my kid, I wouldn't hesitate to beat the living daylights out of them. This woman does not have autism, she supervises my son's ABA programme.


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Yigeren
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20 Feb 2016, 12:48 am

That's very strange. I don't believe I've ever been stared at in that manner by another woman, even by those that were homosexual. I don't think women who are sexually attracted to other women usually do those things. It's disrespectful.

I know that I sometimes (ok, often) stare off into space when I'm thinking. I am not necessarily aware that I'm staring, because I'm not really seeing what I'm looking at. Perhaps she is doing the same?

I honestly don't know what I would do in such a situation. I'd probably just assume that I was mistaken, unless it continued. At that point the least embarrassing thing for me to do would be to remove my child from that situation and refuse to further interact with that person.

I don't believe I'd feel as if I could confront the person about it, as I'd be much too embarrassed and uncomfortable.



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20 Feb 2016, 1:04 am

This has not happened to me. But if I were in the situation, rather than be constantly worried for my child's safety around this perv, I'd report it to the principal or headmaster, or whatever yours is called. If nobody ever tells them, they can't take any kind of action. I should think there will be a low tolerance for reports like this.


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HisMom
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20 Feb 2016, 1:40 am

While I am angered and PO-ed, I am wondering how my complaint would be received by HER supervisor ? Thing is, she seems "perfectly respectable" on the outside. Married, has an advanced degree, a responsible job working with disabled children and then she pulls this sh1t ?

I do get that people sometimes "stare off into space", which is why I asked her if there was anything on my shirt ? She said NO, but that should have been a freaking clue that she should STOP staring at me. She made me uncomfortable, and more than anything horribly embarrassed. Given that she is also a woman, I don't even know if her supervisor would do anything to help me if I did complain and ask for another behaviorist ? That's the unfortunate part - if a man had done this, they'd have been all over him, but it's somehow OK for a female staff to harass a parent ?

I am going to make inquiries and find out if she's homosexual. If she's married to another woman, then they may - unfortunately - take my complaint more seriously, which again is so unfair - the lesbian women that I do know have never ever done anything so disrespectful. But it may also explain why she kept staring at me. If she's straight, though ... I am just going to have to be blunt and ask her why she's looking at my breasts since she didn't seem to get that "is there anything on my shirt ?" is the same as "what the hell are YOU looking at, you freak of nature, you ?"


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20 Feb 2016, 1:13 pm

Quote:
I am just going to have to be blunt and ask her why she's looking at my breasts since she didn't seem to get that "is there anything on my shirt ?"


I think it's reasonable to be blunt in this situation, since you've already tried being subtle. Still, try to be nice about it. Maybe the woman has self-esteem issues, and that's why she can't look at your face. Or maybe she's lying to you, or maybe she pities you. There can be a lot of reasons why a person doesn't look at another person when they're speaking. I tend to think it's not a sexual thing in this case, but I could be wrong. Also it's not impossible that this woman is on the spectrum AND a therapist.



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20 Feb 2016, 5:30 pm

I don't think it's a sexual thing. I don't like eye contact and unfortunately I have found myself looking in the direction of the person I'm speaking too's breasts. It's just unfortunately where my eyes end up. I do it to men too. Not out of interest in what's in that area of my vision, just it's not quite their face and not quite the floor. I then think, oh how long was I staring, I hope they didn't notice.

If she does it next time you say her just be blunt and tell her. She maybe doesn't even realise she's doing it.



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21 Feb 2016, 3:06 pm

hurtloam wrote:
I don't think it's a sexual thing. I don't like eye contact and unfortunately I have found myself looking in the direction of the person I'm speaking too's breasts. It's just unfortunately where my eyes end up. I do it to men too. Not out of interest in what's in that area of my vision, just it's not quite their face and not quite the floor. I then think, oh how long was I staring, I hope they didn't notice.

If she does it next time you say her just be blunt and tell her. She maybe doesn't even realise she's doing it.


I do that too. Sometimes when people walk by I also might look at their outfit/shoes instead of their face to recognize them. I don't do it because I'm checking them out either. I try not to do it as much now though so they don't get the wrong idea.



probly.an.aspie
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21 Feb 2016, 3:25 pm

I have issues with eye contact myself, but I try to find a neutral spot to fix my eyes on--hair, forehead, maybe? not breasts. I also stare into space sometimes but not i a setting where I am interacting with someone for a length of time.

We all glance at someone's body from time to time, I think--at least I find myself doing that; but IMO for her to fix her eyes on your chest at length seems creepy.

I don't think that whether she is gay or straight should matter. I don't think I would inquire into that because it is going to come across as "homophobia" if you find out she's gay and you end up requesting a different therapist. Whether she is gay or straight, it is not appropriate to stare at your chest.


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22 Feb 2016, 11:08 am

.



Last edited by neilson_wheels on 22 Feb 2016, 12:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

HisMom
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22 Feb 2016, 12:01 pm

She does not have autism. She has made eye contact and conversations just fine at other times, and comes across as NT as she can be. The other red flag to me that day was how she positioned herself to sit as physically close to me as possible (unlike previous times when she has always sat across the table from me).

This is not about aspie eye contact (or lack thereof) but rather - what I felt as - sexual harassment from someone of the same gender. It appears that woman-to-woman harassment is much rarer (based on the posts here). This also probably makes it a lot more trickier to deal with, than if it involved two people of opposite genders. Again, I repeat, this woman has never given the impression that she is an aspie, she is NT as far as I can tell, and has made eye contact and decent conversations in the past, so please don't derail this thread about how she is probably an autie who has issues with eye contact and just couldn't find a better place to focus her eyes on. She has known a lot better in the past few weeks (when she first started working with my kid) !

Also, women only please. Thank you !


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22 Feb 2016, 12:08 pm

Since you said that about your shirt I think that if she was trying to be creepy she would have stopped. Also the fact that she wasn't flirting seems to suggest to me that it wasn't sexual, even though she was sitting very close. I don't know what's going on with her but without the flirting and since you said something to her, it sounds to me like she may not know that she's doing something weird.

One thing, off the top of my head, is maybe she has a problem with eye contact and staring a foot lower like that may be just what she does to everybody. With guys, nobody would get the wrong idea about staring at their chests and since she's female too, she may think that nobody would get the wrong idea when she does that to other women. The fact that she didn't change or seem embarrassed when you said that about your shirt makes me think she's just really clueless.

That puts you between a rock and a hard place though. If you don't say anything and just deal with it, that's going to keep you distracted when you're talking to her about your son. You won't be as productive as you would normally be. But if you say something to her that's very embarrassing for the both of you. It's hard enough to point out to a good friend when they do something that's very socially wrong, so telling a stranger could be twice as hard.

If I were you, this is what I would do. Next visit with her, make yourself seem to ignore it completely. Be friendly with her like you would to any other lady you met who was there to help your son. When she relaxes and feels comfortable with you, she might actually stop doing it if it's a nervous thing. Smile, (even though she won't see it) be a little bit warmer than people normally are in professional situations, more along the lines of a camaraderie because you're both girls and stick together type of thing. It shouldn't be misunderstood as flirting or anything, even if she is gay. Just act friendly and warm as if she were a guest in your home that you want to put at ease and make comfortable. Then at the next meeting, if she didn't stop the staring by now, about halfway through mention if to her. By this time you will have established a relationship with her and have a "we are on the same side" kind of thing going, so you could broach the topic with her along the lines of pointing it out to her that she's doing it so that "somebody else doesn't get the wrong idea about her being creepy". If it's an unconscious thing in her part she will be embarrassed and grateful that you pointed it out. If she comes across that way assure her you didn't get the wrong idea, even though that's a lie. If she didn't mean to do it and doesn't know she's doing it then she's going to be really worried that people thought the wrong thing so you assuring her you didn't will make her feel much better.

This way of handling it should work. If she's is being creepy on purpose and does mistake your being nice as flirting and comes on strong to you then you can just go off on her and tell her that creeping on clients is a good way to lose her job. Then report her to her boss for inappropriate behavior and such. But I really think it's unconscious on her part because of how she responded to you when you said that about your shirt. AS isn't the only thing that causes social problems and she could have something like that which is causing it, or she could actually have an undiagnosed case of AS herself. I didn't get diagnosed until middle age and only then because I was in therapy for an anxiety disorder and over time my therapist noticed it and brought it up and we went from there. So she could have something going on that is causing it. I'm sure you're not the first person to notice it and since telling somebody something like this is hard to do, you might be the first one to bring it up to her.

I'm thinking it could be something brought on by nerves because otherwise she would do it to friends and family and they would have told her. It just really seems unconscious to me and I'd give her the benefit of the doubt.

One other thing I'd suggest is to talk to the person who actually does the ABA with your son. Ask them if they noticed her doing that to anyone else. See what they say. And even if she is gay, that wouldn't mean she's creeping on every girl she meets, but just like there are creepy guys there are also creepy lesbians and you can't rule out the possibility just because she's female.

Good luck and let me know how it turns out. I really hope it's just a nervous unconscious thing and that you are able to help by pointing it out to her. If she does it a lot to other girls she may be used to them being standoffish and upset with her because of it so she wouldn't see anything different in how you acted the other day than in how people normally act towards her.

If all else fails talk to her boss and let him know that you can't really work with her very well and ask for someone else.

Let me know how it turns out.


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OliveOilMom
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22 Feb 2016, 12:22 pm

I just saw your last post after I posted mine. I'm not suggesting she for sure has AS. There are a lot of things that can cause stuff like that. But also I wasn't there and if it feels like sexual harassment then it could very well be. I just try to think of other reasons that might have caused it. If your gut says sexual then it could very easily be sexual and you may not want to try the idea I just posted.

One thing though, in mild cases, AS isn't always obvious. I learned to hide mine when I was young and I had no idea anything was wrong, I just thought I was weird. I come across as NT most of the time, and as a very assertive and social NT. I actually an outgoing so that's not against my nature, so you can't rule out anybody being in the spectrum by how they come across. If somebidy didnt know I have AS then they would be hard pressed to suspect it if i didnt tell them. It might come out in certain situations now but Im also 51 and have been dealing with this all my life and Im pretty experiences in what not to do now lol. However, I wouldn't stare at somebody's boobs when talking to them unless like somebody said they were just huge or hanging out lol. And I don't think you'd go out in public like that, so I'm sure that wasn't the situation :-)

So good luck with this and let me know what you decide to do and how it turns out. Whatever you do though, make sure when you discuss it with her or her boss, phrase it in a way where you do leave room for doubt just in case it's not on purpose and you end up having to work with her and deal with her for a while. Let me know what happens.


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22 Feb 2016, 2:46 pm

HisMom, do you think you yourself come across as a little "spectrumy" or otherwise odd?
I ask because I know I do, and I frequently have issues when talking to therapists or social workers on behalf of my son or parents (nursing home staff). They look at me funny, and I can see the wheels spinning in their minds. Then they'll change their tone of voice, or their body language, or ask me questions that seem out of place in the conversation. I know what they're doing - they're trying out their tools of the trade on me, trying to figure me out. Perhaps your son's therapist is trying her "therapist moves" on you? It would explain why she started sitting next to you rather than across from you, and perhaps why she isn't looking you in the eye. Perhaps she believes she is making herself less threatening and you more comfortable.