A very selfish and manipulative nature - AS trait?

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Maggiedoll
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18 Jul 2009, 10:05 am

Callista wrote:
Rate of autism: 1:150, or
Rate of antisocial personality disorder: 3.5%
Chance of both in the same person: 1:428,000

So there should be about 14,000 autistic sociopaths in the world.


While I'm sure there are SOME autistic sociopaths, it's not that simple a statistic; many of the characteristics contradict each other. Sociopaths tend to be charismatic. There are, perhaps, a few charismatic autistic, but not many. Charisma requires ability to be what people want you to be, which isn't exactly a trait common in autistic.
To be manipulative, you have to be able to judge people's reactions to things as you go, and behave in ways and say things that alters how people act towards you and towards what you want to manipulate them about. It's just not something most autistic are capable of. Perhaps there are autistic who wish they were manipulative and who try to manipulate others, but they wouldn't be very good at it. Sociopaths recognize what people want and how they feel very easilly; that's the basis of manipulative. It requires extraordinary people skills.

I don't know about y'all, but I'm not as convincing when I'm telling the TRUTH as a sociopath is when they're lying.



ColdBlooded
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18 Jul 2009, 11:13 am

Maggiedoll wrote:
I don't know about y'all, but I'm not as convincing when I'm telling the TRUTH as a sociopath is when they're lying.


ahahahahahaha. I know what you mean.

"....look me in the eye when you say that!"



poopylungstuffing
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18 Jul 2009, 11:41 am

I have been accused of doing things that were manipulative..and possibly selfish because I lacked the right kind of empathy and TOM that would have helped me better to do the right thing....But I did not deliberately set out to be manipulative and selfish...also, in at least one specific event I am referring to, I was also being manipulated.

I can be selfish about certain very narrow aspects of my life and manipulative so as to preserve my perceived rights to those narrow aspects...but that is about it. When I am being manipulative, I am manipulative in the way that a runaway train is manipulative.

I have no desire to do it just for fun.



marshall
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18 Jul 2009, 11:44 am

ColdBlooded wrote:
Maggiedoll wrote:
I don't know about y'all, but I'm not as convincing when I'm telling the TRUTH as a sociopath is when they're lying.


ahahahahahaha. I know what you mean.

"....look me in the eye when you say that!"


Yea, :lol:. I'm just as awkward when I'm telling the truth as I am when I'm lying. I'm NEVER comfortable looking someone in the eye when they're giving me the third degree even if I have absolutely nothing to hide. Ironically people seem to believe me as often when I lie as they do when I tell the truth.



Zyborg
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18 Jul 2009, 11:45 am

decoder wrote:
How many of you aspies defines his/herself like this ?


I am manipulative, but not selfish.

Selfish people are subhumans and should be gassed in concentration camps for refusing to put motherland above themselves.



marshall
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18 Jul 2009, 11:50 am

Zyborg wrote:
decoder wrote:
How many of you aspies defines his/herself like this ?


I am manipulative, but not selfish.

Selfish people are subhumans and should be gassed in concentration camps for refusing to put motherland above themselves.


Okay, you first. :wink:



decoder
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18 Jul 2009, 2:39 pm

Zyborg wrote:

I am manipulative, but not selfish.

Selfish people are subhumans and should be gassed in concentration camps for refusing to put motherland above themselves.


selfishness is rather a beneficial adaptation for an individual. I think the development of brain is closely related to the arise of selfish personality. For this matter it would be wrong to call them subhumans.

And what the hell is it with the motherland??



Last edited by decoder on 18 Jul 2009, 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

1234
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18 Jul 2009, 2:54 pm

I don't think I'm manipulative, but sometimes when I say something, people fabricate this entirely different story around it... which makes me look manipulative..
Unless I don't know the meaning of that word...

But for instance, I say:
Oh I love to play the guitar!

And other people assume I'm some prodigy and practice playing the guitar every day... while that is not what I said at all.

I can be selfish at times, mostly when I'm very tired or when I'm having too much sensory issues or if (for instance) sharing food would break my food routine.



Odin
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19 Jul 2009, 4:12 pm

I'm the exact opposite, I'm very unselfish and unmanipulative. I guess that's a positive benifit of a poorly developed "theory of mind".

IMO it is those that have a strongly developed theory of mind that are predisposed towards sociopathic behavior if for some reason they have an impaired moral sense, sociopaths often seem friendly and empathic until they use and abuse you for their selfish purposes.


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22 Jul 2009, 1:26 pm

I don't believe AS and NPD are co-morbid and I don't believe anything people say after they claim otherwise or self aggrandise having traits of either.

The idea of NPD on a AS site is distasteful IMHO

NPD and sociopathy are separate diagnosis but can be co-morbid as I understand it.

For you folks who are AS I think you are in danger of some bad experiences if you have not met a NPD yet. So if you get that feeling you are receiving extraordinary flattery or feel manipulated maybe try to keep your interaction with this individual in the presences of a third party. The change in their behavior will be noticeable because they think like children which is why their unexplainable behavior is always passed off for some other cause. You may pay attention to the eyes of people they keep around. It will tell you something is up.



PunkyKat
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12 Oct 2010, 12:54 pm

I've get called selfish all the time and as a kid it never phased me either because I didn't care or didn't understand. As an adult, it dosen't bother me because I've been called that so much.


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Asp-Z
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12 Oct 2010, 1:06 pm

decoder wrote:
How many of you aspies defines his/herself like this ?


I get called selfish all the time, but that's because I am misunderstood. I am not manipulative by nature, that's something NTs are more liable to do.



MrXxx
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12 Oct 2010, 1:16 pm

I think it's perception. Looking from the outside in, others may easily perceive us that way.

Looking from the inside out, we may not feel we are, but can't help appearing as such to others.

Whether we really are selfish and manipulative I think requires a totally objective viewpoint which nearly no one has, whether they are looking from the outside in, or from the inside out.

We may not mean to be that way but are, or appear to be, or we may truly be selfish and manipulative.

As far as DX's go, it probably depends more on appearance than true motivations.


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jonnynoob
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01 Feb 2011, 7:18 am

i want to share a story: my cat was so horny that he became pretty depressed after a while he couldnt have a good cat-sex. Then he started to protest me in his own way-which i think thats the explanation- by peeing onto my bed and my brothers bed. That was probably quite annoying for him, so my brother decided to keep his door closed to prevent this from happening. I thought this was just a temporary phase so it was ok for him(the cat) to pee onto my bed once in a while. So i did not take any action further than cleaning the pee marks with vinegar and changing my sheet . So thats the picture so far. The important detail was he(the cat) usually prefered my brothers bed to mine. This means even if both of our doors open he would pee onto my brothers bed with a higher probability- id say 2 out of 3-. One night my brother had his friends over us. I was hanging out with them meanwhile. One of his friends must have left his door open because my brothers girlfriend came in and told my brother that the cat peed on his bed. Me and my brother simultaneously reacted to this. His reaction was like ``**** again? how? ****!`` and my uncontrolled, alcohol boosted reaction was like ``oh yeah!``. 10 seconds after this i realized everyone was silently staring at me. I felt deeply embarrassed. And tried to explain my respond. Actually i was pretty happy that the cat did pee on my brothers bed not mine because i just had my sheet changed that night. bla bla happened afterwards....

So if this is a selfish behaviour pattern, yes i have plenty of these. Manipulative? Hmm...

Edit: After examining the story-telling carefully... Id say yes i am also manipulative.



Unlimited_Sky
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01 Feb 2011, 10:38 am

Anti-social personality disorder is not the same as sociopathy or psychopathy; they're distinct from each other. Recent medical books lump the three in together, sometimes with sociopathy or psychopathy as sub-categories, which are both, I believe, synonymous terms for one another, just stemming from the person's view of its origins. I think I read that it is possible, though rare, for a person to have both Asperger's and sociopathy.

The characteristics of a sociopath:

Quote:
A sociopath is defined as a person with, "pervasive pattern of disregard for, and violation of, the rights of others that begins in childhood or early adolescence and continues into adulthood". Sociopath characteristics begin at an early age. However, they go unnoticed for a long time, under the assumption that the child will grow up and learn a lesson. Sometimes sociopaths are also referred as psychopaths. The terms used to describe are not synonymous, but the behavior projected in both cases is more or less the same. Here is a list of sociopaths characteristics.

Word of Caution: You may be tempted to relate these sociopath characteristics to your unreasonable friends, family and folks. However, only an expert and learned individual can diagnose a person as a sociopath. Hence, refrain from jumping to conclusions.

Manipulating
A sociopath has a brain. Sadly, a sociopath never uses the brain for his/her use. They believe that much can be achieved by conning and manipulating others. Hence, with a thought like that, sociopath wastes time in convincing others about their malicious ideas. They do so by putting on their charm. A sociopath victimizes the other person as an object to be used for implementing cruel intentions.

Incapacity for Feelings or Emotions
This is the main, yet hidden sociopath characteristics. A sociopath has no scope for emotions or feelings. They only make a superficial exhibition of their emotions. They do laugh, cry, get angry and depressed momentarily. The underlying reason for this superficiality is, they live in their own world and have their own set of morals. They are often ruled by a belief that their actions bear no consequence whatsoever, and they are not accountable to anyone. Incapacity for feelings and emotions allow a sociopath to elude responsibility for actions by placing the blame on others.

Compulsive Liars
Sociopaths have a boundless capacity to lie. It all begins when they lie once to hide a mistake and then continue lying to cover the earlier lies. As mentioned earlier, they are incapacitated to feelings, they do not understand the impact of compulsively lying. If they are caught lying, sociopaths are clever at changing the subject by blaming someone else and crawling clean out of the mess. Often, sociopaths are so clever at lying, that they pass lie detector tests also. Which is why, they rarely end up in prisons. And who thought sociopaths were out of brains!

Shallow Emotions
A sociopath does not have emotions is true. But a sociopath has shallow emotions is equally true. Shallow emotions adheres to show of warmth, joy, appreciation and motivation towards others to satisfy the ulterior motives. These sociopath traits make them seem emotionally strong. They remain cold and do not show reactions to what may cause a normal person to react. They make promises to others to get their job done. However, they are fake, and so are their promises.

Impulsive Nature
The logic of thinking twice before you do anything or say anything does not exist with a sociopath. They get so overwhelmed by a certain idea to which they react impulsively. These actions are always driven by a devious acumen, such as cheating, stealing and lying. The excitement of doing the act is so great, that they jump on the opportunity which leads them into shady acts.

Parasitic Living
Amongst characteristics of a sociopath, their parasitic nature is very evident. They act like leeches that cling on to everybody. They do so to find an accomplice to their actions. To get their plans done, they get hold of people closest to them, so that they can conveniently slip out the act when desired and then place the blame on others.

Radiating Charm
Sociopaths have a beautiful charm about themselves, which is good enough to cover up all their devilish acts. They are very amusing, carefree and lively. These are the traits that draws a person to them. They often win the admiration from others and can make the crowd gawk at them.

Egocentric
Sociopaths indulge in bragging about themselves like there's no tomorrow. They firmly believe that what they are doing is absolutely right and there's no way they would do anything wrong. They are self-assured about themselves. This leads them to making highly preposterous and unrealistic plans about life, making money, marriage and living. Sociopaths fail to understand why others around them are so against them.

No Guilt
Whether it's a murder, robbery, lie or any other criminal act for that matter, a sociopath feels no guilt whatsoever. They can never empathize with others and neither can they feel guilt for blaming others. They have an amoral world of their own. They lie to an extent where room for guilt gets occupied by self made reality. They often believe that the pain inflicted on the other person was deserved by them. Many criminal sociopath often are seen giving such explanations.

Regularly Seen Sociopath Characteristics
•Early behavior problems, which are seen as juvenile delinquency and referred to as sociopath characteristics in children.
•Indulging in crime of slander.
•Promiscuous behavior and infidelity.
•Entrepreneurial crime mindset.
•Authoritarian and secretive.
•Cheap goal setting, like enslavement of victims.


We aren't that way, are we? To manipulate, you would have to be aware of and attempting to do so, consciously influencing another in order to reach your own ends. From what I know, this wouldn't be an Asperger's trait. We are likely called selfish because we wish to be left alone, tend to our own business and wants, and pursue the fixed obsessions without even thinking about it. I don't understand how that can be considered selfish when neurotypical people do it often, but it doesn't occur to us that we may be forgetting things to pursue that.



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01 Feb 2011, 11:58 am

The whole concept of manipulation is something that has taken my lifetime to understand. I still don't understand it but when I've sensed it I'm terrified. I am ridiculously open and people have a heyday with me. I have to bounce many things off my NT friends because I've haven't a clue what someone is trying to tell me. I hardly ever get it right. I always interpret it inside in extremes. If I think a comment was made to hurt me then I loose all trust...like the person wishes I was dead...despises me. My family and friends have learned to be direct, honest, or clear if they want me to understand. Anything said with an attached tone gets me going. I can't imagine being out in the world thinking up ways to get something. I had people in intimate relationships accuse me of it but they were wrong. When things feel different I address it. I'd never find myself in a loveless relationship for years and years. If they want to be free, be free, why would I want them anymore??????????? I have no idea why I would want to manipulate someone to doing something that they didn't want or plan to do on their own. How would I have faith in what happened??? Why would I want something to happen that didn't happen because it occurred naturally. I don't get it at all, I have no idea what is the motivation for such a thing. How could there be any pleasure in it?? It is baffling to me.

I get extra upset too when someone makes 'leading' comments...trying to tap into my ego so I will jump on it and go blindly forward. People freak me out with how they get their feelings known. I wish there weren't such thing as 'tongue in cheek' comments. They freak me out. I wanna stand up and say...wack, I felt that one. I'm so nervous just talking about it. lol

I like dogs best, although I have one that works on me all the time. But cats they get over on me big time...horses too, goats too...lol shifty...cats especially lol ((really hyperventilating)) 8O


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