Just finished diagnostic exam-has me second guessing myself

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Agree with my shrink?
Yes 16%  16%  [ 4 ]
No 28%  28%  [ 7 ]
Give me 7 years to go to shrink school and then I will let you know 56%  56%  [ 14 ]
Total votes : 25

bergie
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26 Apr 2011, 9:20 pm

A little background: I am a 30 year old computer programmer. Live alone with 2 cats. Haven't been on a date since my sister set me up with a friend in high school. Don't have any close friends (my top 5 probably wouldn't name me in their top 20 and they are mostly work friends). But I didn't see anything wrong with my life. I was content. Didn't know anything about Aspergers or much about Autism until about 2 months ago. I always knew I was different but had always chalked it up to being gifted so other people just didn't understand me. Then I saw a Science Channel special about John Robison and it talked about Aspergers Syndrome and a lot of the feelings he described sounded familiar. Then I read an article about adults with Aspergers and the list of features sounded exactly like what I experience at work.

So I started reading everything I could find on the subject online and bought 8 different books about Aspergers on Amazon and read them. I was pretty much obsessed with it and was only sleeping a few hours a night for several weeks. I took all of the online tests (aspie-quiz, ASQ, EQ, SQ, etc) and scored in the Aspergers range on all of them. I spent days trying to remember things from my childhood and remembered quite a few things that could point to Aspergers. So I talked to my parents about it and my mother seems to think that it fits but she has always wanted to figure out what was wrong with me since I used to take out a lot of my frustrations on her (huge screaming meltdowns over little things). She has also had some problems though physically and mentally and has been on a lot of medications so her memory isn't that great. My dad doesn't think I have it and tried to convince me that I should just take some pills and it will all be better. He was an alcoholic (and I think a sometimes heroin user but I am not completely sure and never confronted him about it) and spent most of his time working so he pretty much just remembers me playing Little League and football(was bad at both).

So anyway, I decided to seek a professional diagnosis. There was only 1 person in my area who advertised that they worked with adults with autism spectrum disorders (as well as children). I called her but she told me that she wasn't accepting any new patients for at least 3 months but she recommended another guy who only advertised that he worked with children but she said that he sometimes worked with adults. I emailed him and he said that he just took on a partner who now handles all of the diagnoses. So I looked up her resume and was a little concerned that she was only 1-2 years older than I am and that most of her experience was with children. But I was desperate for answers so I made an appointment. Here is how it went down:

Day 1:
Hour 1: talked with my parents and me about my early childhood and growing up and developmental things
Hour 2: parents left and she talked to me about a lot of things and why I came to her (I gave her a list of issues and things that made me think I had AS as an adult and as a child)

Day 2:
Hour 1: Looked at pictures of me growing up and old report cards and awards and stuff. Asked stuff like was I happy then and was I happy now.
Hour 2: She gave me an ADOS test where I had to tell a story from a book with no words and pick 5 random things from a bag and make up a story.

Then she went through the DSM IV list with me and asked if I thought I had them. She agreed that I met pretty much everything from the Social Interaction list but she wasn't sure about the Patterns of Behavior part. Her specific concerns were:

1. I didn't remember any very strong special interests as a child and my special interests as an adult(computers, poker, WoW, politics, global warming, food system) are not necessarily "encompassing" or "stereotypical". She said that poker, which I spent 6 years fascinated by (became a poker dealer, played 5-7 days a week, read dozens of books and articles on, watched on TV, etc) and World of Warcraft which I spent 5 years and thousands of hours playing and strategizing about could also be called "addictions".

2. We didn't spend a lot of time on this one. I told her I liked to do things a certain way, always ate the same things from the same restaurants, and got really anxious if I was going to be late.

3. She basically said that my "stims" (fidgeting feet and hands, chewing on pens, cracking knuckles, twisting back and forth in chair) were not stereotypically "stimmy" enough and that the stuff on my list were also done by normal people. I tried to explain that there was a black outline (from one of those plastic chair rolling mats) under where my desk at work was from the black rubber on the bottoms of my shoes.

4. She said that while I did enjoy taking things apart as a kid (and now with computers) it again wasn't "up to the level" that you would typically see in an Aspergers child.

Some other concerns she had was that I always got good grades (except in handwriting), and teachers always gave me good remarks (I often helped them grade papers and stuff during recess) and never got in much trouble at school (home was a different story) and usually looked happy in pictures (mostly birthdays and christmas so who isn't happy getting presents?)

She also said that because I was able to recognize a lot of my issues and analyzed them (like recognizing that it was unhealthy to get so upset at random people on the internet who I spent the last 4 hours arguing politics with) that I might not have Aspergers because they typically don't recognize their own faults. Although she did bring up John Robison as an exception.

She brought up Social Anxiety and depression as possible other diagnoses. I told her that I don't really get anxious over social situations (I do get really anxious at doctors and talking about feelings) I just suck at them. And I am not depressed. I have been in the past (although I would have denied it at the time) but am not now. I am just indifferent. She also didn't seem to know anything about any of the online quizzes (aspie, ASQ, EQ, SQ, etc).

So now I have to wait 2-4 weeks for her to compile up her report and deliver her verdict.

I have a good job and am not planning on disclosing if diagnosed. I don't want to use the diagnosis as an excuse. I just want to know for me and I really don't want it to be wrong. I guess I don't really need it to try to better myself (getting promoted at work soon so I need to work on my social skills regardless) but I think it would help to know why what seems so natural to everyone else is a challenge to me.

Sorry for the super-long post/rant. Any comments, questions, concerns are appreciated.



AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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26 Apr 2011, 11:01 pm

Well, first off, as a relatively new member, Welcome to WP! :D

Now, I generally advocating taking psychologists and counselors with a grain of salt. Yes, I acknowledge that there are some good ones, but a lot of ones aren't. She seems okay, she's in there trying, and decent about it, but it still rather seems like she is operating by stereotypes.

The fact that you read the books in quick succession, that it resonates with you. That you find Asperger's / Autism Spectrum to be a useful conceptual way of looking at things. And that's kind of me, Asperger's explains things about my life that I had wondered about for a long time.

Plus, it gives you a potential source of friends and a potential tribe. The fact that you think of yourself as gifted but now think there might be more, that is kind of my experience.

Here's a website that a number of famous people possibly/ probably were on the spectrum
http://www.asperger-syndrome.me.uk/people.htm
Isaac Newton, Jane Austen, Thomas Jefferson.
So much so that there's almost a second stereotype we need to address, that everyone with Asperger's is super high achieving. Well, first off, there's a lot of luck and external factor (and I suspect you're enough of a poker player to know that, which is why we see so few name pros at the final table!)



Last edited by AardvarkGoodSwimmer on 26 Apr 2011, 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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26 Apr 2011, 11:04 pm

It is tough to say really. If you explained things to her in detail (obviously it would probably be more than what you explained to us), and she said it is not Aspie enough, then she might have truly gathered that from what you told her. I can`t really be the judge of that. Some of what you said does sound Aspie-ish, but she will know far better than I because she spent much more time talking to you (and because she is a professional). I wouldn`t let her age deter you, btw. If she wasn`t qualified, she wouldn`t be able to make the diagnoses. Also, give it a few more years, and many of the psychologists around will be younger than you, so that is something you`ll have to get used to (I mean this light-heartedly, btw!) I would just wait it out and see what she says in the report and the reasons behind it. If you she says no and you still disagree after she gives you her reasons, then seek a second opinion. If it is not causing you limited function in everyday life (you do hold down a good job, you said), you might not qualify for an AS diagnosis anyway, but again, I don`t know you or your life, so it is just something to think on, not a judgement.



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26 Apr 2011, 11:07 pm

AardvarkGoodSwimmer wrote:
The fact that you read the books in quick succession, that it resonates with you. That you find Asperger's / Autism Spectrum to be a useful conceptual way of looking at things. And that's kind of me, Asperger's explains things about my life that I had wondered about for a long time.

Plus, it gives you a potential source of friends and a potential tribe. The fact that you think of yourself as gifted but now think there might be more, that is kind of my experience.


This is a general comment, not directed at all toward the original post & poster:

Just because one connects with autistic people and can relate to Aspergers does not make one autistic or have Aspergers. That is why I advocate professional diagnoses for people who truly want to know. A white person can say they feel more connected to black people and African-American culture. That doesn`t make them black.



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26 Apr 2011, 11:30 pm

Let's talk poker. I lived in Vegas for two years, took the game seriously, and I broke even. That's an accomplishment. A lot of people cannot say that.

Yes, I did feel good when I both played well and won. I did feel hurt when I lost, even more so when I played poorly and knew it, like when I chased.

But, I was almost more interested in analyzing the game than the actual playing. Serious analysis of the odds of a single hand given. Like analysis, walk, analysis, walk, one of the main intellectual projects of the day. I read Caro's Book of Tells, kept honest poker log, etc. So, it didn't feel like an addiction like I was chasing some endorphin high, more an intellectual project (obsession?).

[Why I don't recommend poker for money: The normal downswings are brutal. 500 down for the month endangers a person's quality of living more than 500 up helps it. There is a lot of noise to the signal. Any person thinking about playing, should first understand the statistical concept of "gamblers ruin," and also understand the recommendations for how many times buy-in one's poker bank should be, which hardly anyone either does or can do, and probably when it gets down to half this, player should call a pause and put fresh money into the poker bank.]

***bergie, figure you know all this, but for the benefit of anyone else reading, want to get all this on the table, so to speak :wink: ***

Play tight-aggressive cash games, loose-aggressive tournament games, that's a given. [one writer estimated the statistical longrun for good play winning out at tournaments was five hundred years. So again, please be careful.]

I currently play some bar poker for points not money.

-------------------------------------

Social skills from poker:

in tournament games, take a "stab" at the pot. In social interactions, "how's the game going" keep it short, brief, don't invest a lot into it. Be open to ping-ponging it back and forth.

Don't bury my head so deeply in my own cards, I miss what is palpably obvious right in front of me.

Be open to appreciating my fellow players (much easier to read someone if I like them!). May not like them. Just be open to this happening.

Don't need to know everything. Just whether someone feels generally good about their cards or generally not so good.

If someone needs space, give them space, without the intervening step of asking whether they 'should' need space.

In generally, take a medium step, see how in goes, take another medium step. In real life, when we build the pot, everyone wins! And another way of adding to my skills of low-key leadership (sometimes it's just matter-of-factly complementing or building someone up).

And I guess, the zen art of medium trying. You are more allowing a good thing to happen, rather than trying to force it to happen.



Last edited by AardvarkGoodSwimmer on 26 Apr 2011, 11:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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26 Apr 2011, 11:37 pm

The issues is, she has no experience with adults, and is only under the impression that people with AS don't realize their own faults, because children in general tend not to realize their own faults It is NOT an AS trait. It is a child trait.

Most people with AS realize they are different, even as children, though they might not be able to articulate how. Upon learning of AS, most people with AS are likely going to recognize that they fit the criteria.

If she is going to work with adults, I think you should inform her of these things.

There is also something called Pervasive Development Disorder Not Otherwise Specified. People who have ASD or AS traits who don't fit all the criteria for one or another but much of the criteria of one or both usually get lumped in this category.



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26 Apr 2011, 11:38 pm

littlelily613 wrote:
AardvarkGoodSwimmer wrote:
The fact that you read the books in quick succession, that it resonates with you. That you find Asperger's / Autism Spectrum to be a useful conceptual way of looking at things. And that's kind of me, Asperger's explains things about my life that I had wondered about for a long time.

Plus, it gives you a potential source of friends and a potential tribe. The fact that you think of yourself as gifted but now think there might be more, that is kind of my experience.


This is a general comment, not directed at all toward the original post & poster:

Just because one connects with autistic people and can relate to Aspergers does not make one autistic or have Aspergers. That is why I advocate professional diagnoses for people who truly want to know. A white person can say they feel more connected to black people and African-American culture. That doesn`t make them black.


On the other hand, some professionals have said outright that if you end up self-diagnosing yourself, you are probably correct.

Did you self-diagnose or were you professionally diagnosed without ever exploring the possibility you were autistic?



littlelily613
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26 Apr 2011, 11:47 pm

Verdandi wrote:
littlelily613 wrote:
AardvarkGoodSwimmer wrote:
The fact that you read the books in quick succession, that it resonates with you. That you find Asperger's / Autism Spectrum to be a useful conceptual way of looking at things. And that's kind of me, Asperger's explains things about my life that I had wondered about for a long time.

Plus, it gives you a potential source of friends and a potential tribe. The fact that you think of yourself as gifted but now think there might be more, that is kind of my experience.


This is a general comment, not directed at all toward the original post & poster:

Just because one connects with autistic people and can relate to Aspergers does not make one autistic or have Aspergers. That is why I advocate professional diagnoses for people who truly want to know. A white person can say they feel more connected to black people and African-American culture. That doesn`t make them black.


On the other hand, some professionals have said outright that if you end up self-diagnosing yourself, you are probably correct.

Did you self-diagnose or were you professionally diagnosed without ever exploring the possibility you were autistic?


Is this question directed at me---well, I will answer either way :P I was self-diagnosed for years; however, I generally kept it quiet until I knew for sure. I also know someone who was self-diagnosed but does not have ASD. He was diagnosed with something else, and agrees that that fits him more. I`ve been told by the one who diagnosed me that a lot of people who diagnose themselves are usually correct; however, not everyone is.



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26 Apr 2011, 11:49 pm

**



Verdandi
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26 Apr 2011, 11:52 pm

littlelily613 wrote:
Is this question directed at me---well, I will answer either way :P I was self-diagnosed for years; however, I generally kept it quiet until I knew for sure. I also know someone who was self-diagnosed but does not have ASD. He was diagnosed with something else, and agrees that that fits him more. I`ve been told by the one who diagnosed me that a lot of people who diagnose themselves are usually correct; however, not everyone is.


That was directed at you, and I am sorry if it came across as loaded. I was just curious about your perspective.

And yes, true that not everyone is.



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26 Apr 2011, 11:53 pm

littlelily613 wrote:
. . . I also know someone who was self-diagnosed but does not have ASD. He was diagnosed with something else, and agrees that that fits him more. I`ve been told by the one who diagnosed me that a lot of people who diagnose themselves are usually correct; however, not everyone is.

And that is an area where professionals can be helpful.



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27 Apr 2011, 12:16 am

bergie wrote:


Then she went through the DSM IV list with me and asked if I thought I had them. She agreed that I met pretty much everything from the Social Interaction list but she wasn't sure about the Patterns of Behavior part. Her specific concerns were:

1. I didn't remember any very strong special interests as a child and my special interests as an adult(computers, poker, WoW, politics, global warming, food system) are not necessarily "encompassing" or "stereotypical". She said that poker, which I spent 6 years fascinated by (became a poker dealer, played 5-7 days a week, read dozens of books and articles on, watched on TV, etc) and World of Warcraft which I spent 5 years and thousands of hours playing and strategizing about could also be called "addictions".

2. We didn't spend a lot of time on this one. I told her I liked to do things a certain way, always ate the same things from the same restaurants, and got really anxious if I was going to be late.

3. She basically said that my "stims" (fidgeting feet and hands, chewing on pens, cracking knuckles, twisting back and forth in chair) were not stereotypically "stimmy" enough and that the stuff on my list were also done by normal people. I tried to explain that there was a black outline (from one of those plastic chair rolling mats) under where my desk at work was from the black rubber on the bottoms of my shoes.

4. She said that while I did enjoy taking things apart as a kid (and now with computers) it again wasn't "up to the level" that you would typically see in an Aspergers child.

Some other concerns she had was that I always got good grades (except in handwriting), and teachers always gave me good remarks (I often helped them grade papers and stuff during recess) and never got in much trouble at school (home was a different story) and usually looked happy in pictures (mostly birthdays and christmas so who isn't happy getting presents?)

She also said that because I was able to recognize a lot of my issues and analyzed them (like recognizing that it was unhealthy to get so upset at random people on the internet who I spent the last 4 hours arguing politics with) that I might not have Aspergers because they typically don't recognize their own faults. Although she did bring up John Robison as an exception.

She brought up Social Anxiety and depression as possible other diagnoses. I told her that I don't really get anxious over social situations (I do get really anxious at doctors and talking about feelings) I just suck at them. And I am not depressed. I have been in the past (although I would have denied it at the time) but am not now. I am just indifferent. She also didn't seem to know anything about any of the online quizzes (aspie, ASQ, EQ, SQ, etc).



The fact that you have the clarity of mind to recognize your issues does not negate the possibility of AS. If that were the case, this site would not have nearly as many members as it does. I look happy in all my pictures as well. You smile for pictures, that's just what your parents tell you to do. Also, alot of people with AS get good grades and don't get into trouble at school. I have a similar story to you. My home life was a mess and I acted up alot, but at school I was a model student with good marks. It most likely had something to do with being in a structured environment. Also aspies tend to have higher than normal IQs, so this obviously is going to affect your grades.

You would already know if you suffered from anxiety and depression. She has no right to tell you what you're feeling after only seeing you for a few hours.

With the special interests, usually by the time you're an adult you have the maturity and time management skills to modulate your interests, so of course they wouldn't be "encompassing." I know of some aspies on this site who don't actually have a special interest. It's rare, but possible. Stimming is not necessary for a diagnosis according to DSM IV, but it is one of the criteria.

It seems as if she's referring too much to a textbook definition and not really using actual judgement. I wouldn't waste any more money on her. It also looks as if she's trying to cancel out a positive diagnosis by looking at irrelevant things like your grades and how you smile in pictures.


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pascalflower
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27 Apr 2011, 12:22 am

First impression is that you are a computer programmer. You wrote an essay on a forum with proper formating and no grammatical errors. You're methodological and specific.

Given what you've presented I would say that you do have Asperger's Syndrome. You're just very lucky in that you're sensory issues are not significant. That is probably why you have such relatively low "stims" .


Just my speculation. I'd say your Autistic, but also blessed with something very good cognitively.



For some reason, Alan Turing comes to my mind.


Qs:
Are you first born?
Left handed?
Sang in choir?
like the color purple?



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27 Apr 2011, 12:27 am

littlelily613 wrote:
If it is not causing you limited function in everyday life (you do hold down a good job, you said), you might not qualify for an AS diagnosis anyway, but again, I don`t know you or your life, so it is just something to think on, not a judgement.


Not necessarily; I've seen plenty of aspies who can hold down a job. That's a skill you learn through accumulated social experiences, so it's totally feasible that an aspie adult could find and keep a job if they knew the right manners. I always put on a "performance" at my job, then I go back to my aspie self when the day is done.


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bergie
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27 Apr 2011, 1:04 am

pascalflower wrote:
First impression is that you are a computer programmer. You wrote an essay on a forum with proper formating and no grammatical errors. You're methodological and specific.

Given what you've presented I would say that you do have Asperger's Syndrome. You're just very lucky in that you're sensory issues are not significant. That is probably why you have such relatively low "stims" .


Just my speculation. I'd say your Autistic, but also blessed with something very good cognitively.



For some reason, Alan Turing comes to my mind.


Qs:
Are you first born?
Left handed?
Sang in choir?
like the color purple?


Thank you. I have always found typing out my thoughts easier than verbalizing them.

As:
Middle child of 3
Right handed
Sang in a choir until puberty destroyed my voice
Liked the color purple until I got ridiculed in 9th grade for wearing a matching purple shirt/shorts combo. Now hate it.



bergie
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27 Apr 2011, 1:30 am

AardvarkGoodSwimmer wrote:
Let's talk poker.


Yes please :D. I am just starting to try to reignite my passion for poker. I have read pretty much every book there is on poker strategy and can talk for hours about it. Getting a big win in poker is one of the greatest feelings in the world. You matched your wits against the other 8 players and it seemed like you could do no wrong that night. Losing sucks. But I always make sure to never lose more than I could afford.

I tried playing professionally for about 6 months (had a guy backing me) but it was just way too much pressure. I enjoy ring games. I mostly play in fairly wild, low-limit games where if I am patient my tight-aggressive style is profitable. I also really enjoy playing in tournaments even thought the high and lows are much more extreme. My best year was 2003 when I had a few final table appearances in a few ranked tournaments and was actually ranked in the top 500 in CardPlayer's player of the year standings (450th tied with like 90 other people but still :D)

I actually think that someone with Aspergers would make a good poker player for the following reasons:

1. It is socially acceptable to wear headphones and sunglasses indoors while playing
2. You can sit at a poker table for 8 hours and not say a word except for talking about poker with your neighbors
3. While poker does involve reading people, the other players are likely attempting to mask their emotions so someone who is experienced at actively trying to read someone's face/body language would have an advantage over someone who normally does it naturally
4. The rest is just math (yes I know this is a stereotype)