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MathGirl
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08 Aug 2010, 12:20 pm

I've met with another aspie on Wednesday, and we were talking about feelings and the ability to love. She told me that she loves her family and her close friends. Which has led me to ask, what is wrong with ME?

I have never experienced attachment to my parents, nor with my friends. When I have managed to keep a friend for, say, two years, and then they suddenly left me, I did not experience feelings of loss related to them. The only things that made me frustrated about it are that 1) I would lose my routine of talking to them, 2) I am once again a loner and a loser with no friends whatsoever, and 3) I do like to have conversations with people once in a while just because I get a chance to express myself.

I enjoy being with people, but when topics of discussion run out, I don't want to talk to them anymore. Being able to relate to someone brings me feelings of comfort, but again, we can't keep sharing our experiences forever. It's obvious that there is no emotional bond between me and other people, regardless of who they are. I have experienced romantic love in terms of extreme desire to be with this one person, yet these feelings gradually went away when they told me that they don't feel the same way for me.

And it's not that I don't feel empathy - sometimes, if I hear someone describe their story, I will listen to it and experience intense emotion inside of me. I am very eager to help people because I know what it's like to be miserable and I want to make people happy. I immensely enjoy socializing in large groups of people, again, because I like to express myself and share my knowledge. Emotions build up inside of me and I need to discharge them.

So, if not having these feelings of attachment is not an Asperger's thing, then what is it?


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lotusblossom
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08 Aug 2010, 12:30 pm

Aspergers effects people in different ways. If you look at the criteria, you only need to get 2 things on each section (or somesuch) and so several people with aspergers could have completely different 'symptoms' but still meet the criteria.

Also it could be you have different personalities ie she could be ISFP and you could be INTJ. This would mean the effect of aspergers had different outcome because your personality played it out different.

Ive met quite a lot of aspies and Im not like any of them, but I still have aspergers and meet the criterior, we are just all different.



leejosepho
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08 Aug 2010, 12:50 pm

MathGirl wrote:
... we were talking about feelings and the ability to love ...

So, if not having these feelings of attachment is not an Asperger's thing, then what is it?


For myself, I see "feelings of attachment" and "the ability to love" as different things. I have occasionally experienced "feelings of attachment" in the same kind of way as you have described "extreme desire to be with this one person", yet there is no emotional "love" illogically driving/drawing me toward anyone even though being in any way thoughtful of anyone at all is actually an act of love.

I think the fact of two Aspies experiencing these kinds of things and/or interacting with other people of any type differently does not dismiss either from class.


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MathGirl
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08 Aug 2010, 1:17 pm

Hmm, according to Wikipedia, love is "the emotion of strong affection and personal attachment".

I see what you mean, but I think that type of attachment has more to do with routine and comfort. You get used to some people and become attached to them because they will make you feel happy and secure. You feel like you have to continue doing things for them so that they keep the same disposition toward you.

Thanks for the replies so far. So it could be part of Asperger's, but not necessarily, then.


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08 Aug 2010, 1:25 pm

It wasn't really until adulthood that I was able to form real connections with other people--before that, it was mostly just animals. Even my bonds with family didn't cement properly until later, and my attachment to people is still very different from what NTs seem to experience--my interest is primarily intellectual.

Maybe you just haven't met the right people yet. Maybe you'll never form attachments--nothing wrong with that, so don't beat yourself up over it. Life is precious and short--too much to see and do to waste time on stuff you can't change. When you get the rest sorted out, you may find that the right people suddenly appear--life is funny that way.



leejosepho
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08 Aug 2010, 1:28 pm

MathGirl wrote:
Hmm, according to Wikipedia, love is "the emotion of strong affection and personal attachment".


Ranging all the way from instinctual nurturing among mammals to whatever else, there are actually four or five kinds/levels/types of "love" ... and personally, I say love is an act of one's will rather than any mere feeling at all.


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Ichinin
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08 Aug 2010, 1:42 pm

MathGirl wrote:
I have never experienced attachment to my parents, nor with my friends.

(...)

So, if not having these feelings of attachment is not an Asperger's thing, then what is it?



A different definition? I do not LOVE friends or similar, but i do LIKE them. I did LOVE the girlfriend i had, but i LIKE my parents.


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jojobean
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08 Aug 2010, 2:02 pm

autism is a spectrum disorder and no two autistic are alike. The one girl you spoke with may have had a different form of it. But on the DSM it talks about not being able to feel or express some emotions as part of the diagnostic criteria for autism related disorders. There are some aspies that are very emotional and passionate and creative, while there are others like you that are logical to the point of emotions being logically based as well. The one thing you wont see here is most things in moderation. As an autistic friend says, I take my moderation...in moderation.


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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08 Aug 2010, 2:05 pm

MathGirl wrote:
I've met with another aspie on Wednesday, and we were talking about feelings and the ability to love. She told me that she loves her family and her close friends. Which has led me to ask, what is wrong with ME?

I have never experienced attachment to my parents, nor with my friends. When I have managed to keep a friend for, say, two years, and then they suddenly left me, I did not experience feelings of loss related to them. The only things that made me frustrated about it are that 1) I would lose my routine of talking to them, 2) I am once again a loner and a loser with no friends whatsoever, and 3) I do like to have conversations with people once in a while just because I get a chance to express myself.

I enjoy being with people, but when topics of discussion run out, I don't want to talk to them anymore. Being able to relate to someone brings me feelings of comfort, but again, we can't keep sharing our experiences forever. It's obvious that there is no emotional bond between me and other people, regardless of who they are. I have experienced romantic love in terms of extreme desire to be with this one person, yet these feelings gradually went away when they told me that they don't feel the same way for me.

And it's not that I don't feel empathy - sometimes, if I hear someone describe their story, I will listen to it and experience intense emotion inside of me. I am very eager to help people because I know what it's like to be miserable and I want to make people happy. I immensely enjoy socializing in large groups of people, again, because I like to express myself and share my knowledge. Emotions build up inside of me and I need to discharge them.

So, if not having these feelings of attachment is not an Asperger's thing, then what is it?

I am that way. I find it easy to not be attached to people.



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08 Aug 2010, 3:16 pm

If you, like me, have to CHOOSE to love, then you can CHOOSE to stop loving.

Others don't consciously choose to love, instead they are controlled by their emotional side. They are more animal and instinct oriented. If the love derives by instinct, it must be ended by instinct. If you've surrendered conscious control of your instincts, then this cannot be consciously brought about.

Emotionally created love would carry with it a stronger sense of attachment (which implies a perceived need). That which comes of conscious choice would carry with it more "preference" (which perceives it as a want instead of a need) It is far easier to give up something you think you want, vs something you think you need.

I know that it is my choice whether to love someone or not. Some people have convinced themselves it is not their choice. I think your problem, MathGirl is that you are much like I am, but because of social stereotypes and misconceptions you've been convinced (or convinced yourself) that you cannot love or become attached to others. You can though, you just are able to see the reality of what that attachment and love is, not the make-believe version of some think it should be. You do NOT have to surrender conscious control of your emotions to love. What you feel IS love, it IS attachment, don't let others, or yourself tell you that it isn't.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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08 Aug 2010, 3:29 pm

Exclavius wrote:
If you, like me, have to CHOOSE to love, then you can CHOOSE to stop loving.

Others don't consciously choose to love, instead they are controlled by their emotional side. They are more animal and instinct oriented. If the love derives by instinct, it must be ended by instinct. If you've surrendered conscious control of your instincts, then this cannot be consciously brought about.

Emotionally created love would carry with it a stronger sense of attachment (which implies a perceived need). That which comes of conscious choice would carry with it more "preference" (which perceives it as a want instead of a need) It is far easier to give up something you think you want, vs something you think you need.

I know that it is my choice whether to love someone or not. Some people have convinced themselves it is not their choice. I think your problem, MathGirl is that you are much like I am, but because of social stereotypes and misconceptions you've been convinced (or convinced yourself) that you cannot love or become attached to others. You can though, you just are able to see the reality of what that attachment and love is, not the make-believe version of some think it should be. You do NOT have to surrender conscious control of your emotions to love. What you feel IS love, it IS attachment, don't let others, or yourself tell you that it isn't.

That reminds me of someone I knew who was stuck in a bad marriage,. She loved her husband much more than he did her and he was always out with his friends and coworkers, sometimes spending the night. He had a job that kept him away from home overnight, too, so we never knew if he was working or out with his other girlfriends. He also befriended and dated friends of her brother's. I wondered how she could ever put up with it and knew there is no way I ever could. When I asked her point blank, it angered her, of course, and she would say she loved him. That's what fascinates me so much, this sort of thing and cult mentality. It's so completely alien to my mode of being. I wonder how people can exist like that and put up with so much. I want to go against the grain 99% of the time and can't figure out what makes certain others so meek and complacent. When "love" is mentioned, I can't understand why someone would choose to love someone who won't love them back.



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08 Aug 2010, 3:31 pm

I have little, or no emotional attachments to MOST people, including my parents. Relatives mean nothing to me emotionally and I am definitely AS. However, I can feel emotions for some people and do experience love for my wife.


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MathGirl
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08 Aug 2010, 3:34 pm

But the truth is, if I didn't have these people in my life, I would be totally fine. I don't think I would mind spending my life completely alone, filling every minute of it with my special interest. It's just my general curiosity about people that keeps me socially active, and I still purposefully keep my distance from people so that they don't become emotionally attached to me, or tell them the truth. I don't want to hurt anybody by being who I am.


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eon
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08 Aug 2010, 3:43 pm

Love is something you will do, not typically something to feel. This is the essential difference. I believe this is because of the altered spectrum of emotion that is a primary feature of asperger's. Dr. Tony Attwood describes it as not the absence of emotion, but the unawareness or absence of degrees of emotional energy. Instead the experience is more like relative absence, and more sudden incidences of the different extremes of anger/frustration, joy/amusement, or fear/anxiety instead of mixtures and moderate in-between feelings. Parents have described it as on/off switches in their kids, and I feel this is the best way I can describe my emotions. So I never have a passive love feeling.... however I do recognize an attachment that drives me to dedication to someone who is a loved one. It's a force of will, not a force in my heart.


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MarijnR
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08 Aug 2010, 3:54 pm

I believe you see relationships as functional constructs, i.e. the company you choose to keep has a function to you, like being an intellectual outlet as you say. You seem to be more attached to the function they fulfill as to the individuals themselves. As a result, like the case is with purely functional things, it is easy to be emotionally detached from them. It doesn't sound so strange or problematic to me.

I think interacting with people on a purely functional level is enough for you at this moment, but I believe you will "feel" some kind of void if you would completely live without any social interaction. As you are still quite young it is quite possible you may grow to appreciate what people, and the social interactions they provide, mean to you later in life.



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08 Aug 2010, 3:58 pm

that is a good way to explain it....a force of will. My dad and I differ on that. I say that love is an action not a feeling. The feeling is fleeting, but the love by will is a stronger bond.


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