No sensory overload and motor-coordination problems?

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KondimentsGuy
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01 Jan 2011, 4:29 pm

Hey,

I've kinda asked this in a previous thread (sorry for those who've already read it) but is it possible for one to have Asperger's diagnosis without them having sensory overload, sensory integration dysfunction, motor-coordination problems (I've heard of a diagnosed Aspie who's the captain of his hockey team) and any of the classic childhood signs like lack of shared attention and imaginative play?



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01 Jan 2011, 4:47 pm

KondimentsGuy wrote:
Hey,

I've kinda asked this in a previous thread (sorry for those who've already read it) but is it possible for one to have Asperger's diagnosis without them having sensory overload, sensory integration dysfunction, motor-coordination problems (I've heard of a diagnosed Aspie who's the captain of his hockey team) and any of the classic childhood signs like lack of shared attention and imaginative play?

It varies from person to person. I have some sensory intergration dysfunction and fine hand eye coordination issues. I cannot handle eight + hour days but do well in specific settings, without a lot of commotion. I can handle crowds while some Aspies can't although I don't want to be stuck in one for an extended period of time. I don't mind shopping and driving, either. It just depends on the Aspie.



KondimentsGuy
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01 Jan 2011, 5:26 pm

Yeah, it's just that I'm wondering where the cut off point is, like if not showing the major childhood signs as well as not having those other problems, but still showing other typical signs like obsessions and social awkwardness automatically eliminates the possibility of you having AS (specifically AS, since I do know that all of this stuff's on a spectrum).



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01 Jan 2011, 5:47 pm

KondimentsGuy wrote:
Hey,

I've kinda asked this in a previous thread (sorry for those who've already read it) but is it possible for one to have Asperger's diagnosis without them having sensory overload, sensory integration dysfunction, motor-coordination problems (I've heard of a diagnosed Aspie who's the captain of his hockey team) and any of the classic childhood signs like lack of shared attention and imaginative play?


While Hans Asperger described in his description of the disorder which bares his name, motor clumsyness, this did not make it into the DSM-IV diagnostic criteria. Nor is hypersensitivity in the DSM-IV diagnostic criteria, though it seems quite common amongst those with AS, and is quite real, as I was quite hypersensitive as a child.

Thus, there are those with a diagnosis of AS who are neither clumsy, nor hypersensitive. If clumsyness/motor deficits, or hypersensitivity were included in the diagnostic criteria, you would have many individuals now diagnosed with AS, who would not have been. But the question is, neurologically, does this indicate two separate disorders?

Who knows.

As someone with AS who does have some coordination issues, I can tell you, this is nothing most people notice. I'm not constantly tripping over my own feet or bumping into things.

Instead, I was a late walker and it took my a year to learn how to ride a bike without training wheels. I can't do much of anything behind my back such as braid my hair, or tie an apron on easily, and I tend to have difficulty walking with a group of people, and so lag towards the back or lead. I can only rollerskate/roller blade on flat surfaces, and have never been able to use the stopper. I also move a lot slower on mountain trails.

Basically, I just can't do anything fancy. I imagine if I did not have other physical limitations, I'd not have a problem being the captain of a field hockey team....ice hockey would be a different story.



KondimentsGuy
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01 Jan 2011, 6:35 pm

Chronos wrote:
KondimentsGuy wrote:
Hey,

I've kinda asked this in a previous thread (sorry for those who've already read it) but is it possible for one to have Asperger's diagnosis without them having sensory overload, sensory integration dysfunction, motor-coordination problems (I've heard of a diagnosed Aspie who's the captain of his hockey team) and any of the classic childhood signs like lack of shared attention and imaginative play?


While Hans Asperger described in his description of the disorder which bares his name, motor clumsyness, this did not make it into the DSM-IV diagnostic criteria. Nor is hypersensitivity in the DSM-IV diagnostic criteria, though it seems quite common amongst those with AS, and is quite real, as I was quite hypersensitive as a child.

Thus, there are those with a diagnosis of AS who are neither clumsy, nor hypersensitive. If clumsyness/motor deficits, or hypersensitivity were included in the diagnostic criteria, you would have many individuals now diagnosed with AS, who would not have been. But the question is, neurologically, does this indicate two separate disorders?

Who knows.

As someone with AS who does have some coordination issues, I can tell you, this is nothing most people notice. I'm not constantly tripping over my own feet or bumping into things.

Instead, I was a late walker and it took my a year to learn how to ride a bike without training wheels. I can't do much of anything behind my back such as braid my hair, or tie an apron on easily, and I tend to have difficulty walking with a group of people, and so lag towards the back or lead. I can only rollerskate/roller blade on flat surfaces, and have never been able to use the stopper. I also move a lot slower on mountain trails.

Basically, I just can't do anything fancy. I imagine if I did not have other physical limitations, I'd not have a problem being the captain of a field hockey team....ice hockey would be a different story.


Thanks, you have some really good points there. What you said about your childhood problems does make it sound like you'd need to have shown significant signs at childhood to be diagnosed - is that right? It just makes sense because in a book on Autism that I read, there was a copy of this screening questionnaire that doctors could give to patients for their parents to fill in about the patient's childhood and in a sense, childhood behaviour reveals more about how one's brain really functions before they've grown up and learned how to alter their behaviour.

On a side note, in relation to signs of autism, it is somewhat funny how people try and find other things to distinguish autistic people from NTs, such as appearance. I read in Gillberg's book that there's a claim that people with Asperger's tend to look younger than their age because they grow up not using facial expressions often, while Asperger's account completely contradicts it when he says that they look mature and noble. :D



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01 Jan 2011, 6:42 pm

I don't really know, because I don't know anyone who really has none of those problems.

Because... sensory problems are not just hypersensitivities, hyposensitivities, and obvious stuff like that. They can also involve trouble interpreting things, trouble searching visually, things like that, all sorts of things that you don't even notice but that affects your life a lot.

And motor issues are far more complex than motor coordination. I was one of those autistic kids who are famous for like, walking along narrow rails, climbing trees and never falling, things like that.

And yet I also had a movement disorder that had a huge impact on my life. It became progressive after adolescence, and was more or less stable before then. One of the better lists of things it affects that I've ever seen is:

"Difficulties with starting, stopping, executing, continuing, combining or switching, may affect postures, actions, speech, thoughts, perceptions, emotions, and memories." (Because it's not just physical movement that's affected, it's also sort of "thought movement" and stuff like that.) You can read more here: http://www.iidc.indiana.edu/index.php?pageId=468 Which suggests that many or even all autistic people have some version, mild or severe, of a similar movement disorder.

And that has nothing to do with coordination. You can be incredibly coordinated with automatic or triggered actions (which may sometimes include sports, like for me with ping-pong and badminton) and very uncoordinated with deliberate actions. You can be incredibly coordinated all the time, and yet have trouble starting, stopping, continuing, combining, or switching certain actions or movements or etc. It's far more complex than just coordination issues. And I've rarely heard of an autistic person who has trouble in none of those areas.


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01 Jan 2011, 7:05 pm

Thanks Anbuend, what you wrote was also very interesting :) Based on that it must really be tough to be one of the top experts in Autism diagnosis since there are so many grey areas. But still, do you know if a lack of childhood symptoms (specifically linked to imagination and socialization, e.g. imaginary play, shared attention) eliminates the possibility of having AS? Unless of course that area's just as non-concrete as the sensory integration and motor-coordination areas. I mean in relation to the non-concreteness (fluidity? whatever the word is) I have heard of how some autistic children have passed something like level 1 theory of mind tests.



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01 Jan 2011, 7:16 pm

Lack of social skills is the core AS trait.

What symptoms do you have to think you have AS?
I'm really critical about mild AS because I believe you need to have some sort of impairment and difficulty in life in order to get diagnosed.
Autism/AS also needs to be present from childhood.


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01 Jan 2011, 7:41 pm

1) I don't yawn when other people do, which I've been told that autistic children also don't do.

2) A girl diagnosed with Asperger's said that I probably have AS or HFA on the basis of being socially awkward, and one of my close friends who's known me for several years said I reminded her of the autistic children she worked with. I am socially awkward to an extent with my lack of empathy, not knowing what to say when people are unhappy, not immediately picking up on sarcasm and sometimes spending time thinking about why a joke is funny when everyone else has already gotten it. In highschool, I said things that offended people without meaning to or understanding why, and didn't realize when people were making fun of me.

3) Childhood: I do remember that when my dad's friend came over from the US, I had no understanding that I should let him talk to my dad since they were friends from long ago and I dominated the conversation asking him about basketball and the NBA. Also, I certainly wasn't one of the kids running around with everyone else in my early childhood, I do remember not knowing why I had no friends. I got confused by sarcasm and metaphorical language (such as how in Church, people drank the blood and ate the body of christ, which were just biscuits and wine) and didn't understand why a friend told me to lie to construction workers when I dropped a sandwich in a still solidifying concrete pit. I went for speech therapy at age 6 too.

However, apparently I did share interest/attention, did want to play with others and definitely had enough of an imagination to dream very often and engage in imaginative play.

4) Obsessions

5) Knee bouncing stim which I stopped a few years ago, and pacing (which might not count, but I still do it when stressed), pendulum-like rhythmic autistic rocking when playing piano.

All in all I feel like I shouldn't bother getting a diagnosis, because although I have some difficulty making friends, it's not too serious. I only really started thinking about myself and Asperger's when I got diagnosed recently with NVLD at a clinic. I just made this thread out of curiosity about whether or not one can be 'autistic' or have Asperger's (without needing to be diagnosed of course, as Baron-Cohen said even Daniel Tammet doesn't need a diagnosis since he's high functioning) with those traits missing or not being severe. It's also partly because I want a clear cut answer as to whether or not I have Asperger's (even mild) since I don't like feeling stuck in between.



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01 Jan 2011, 8:19 pm

Yes, sounds pretty AS-like to me.

What obsession did/do you have? I'm just curious now.


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01 Jan 2011, 8:43 pm

Thanks for giving me a concrete answer, that's a load of weight off my shoulders. Would you say mild-AS however? I didn't have any particular difficulties playing sports or learning to ride a bike, but I did drag my feet when walking and sometimes walk kinda zig zagged. Also, my ears go fuzzy when I go into clubs with friends, as if I've turned a TV up to a really loud volume (my super NT big sis doesn't have that problem) and when I'm trying to concentrate and some continuous noise is playing in the background (like music I don't particularly like), I sometimes lose my temper - which also happens when my mum's using WAY too many words to say something to me and repeating it over and over again by paraphrasing (she definitely has autistic some traits).

Back to your question, well please don't judge me but my #1 obsession right now is Digit Ratio. Whenever I see anyone, I'm automatically drawn to looking at their fingers (unless they're looking at me, because I know they'd find it weird how I'm staring at their fingers) and it really makes me unhappy when I'm trying to look at famous people's digit ratios in videos and I can't (I even search up pics of their hands on the internet). I hope this Secret of the Sexes BBC documentary makes people stop thinking it's such 'bollocks': http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZriLOP8u-8. Speaking of which, I definitely have an Autistic digit ratio. Anyway, my other obsessions are Autism, Facial attractiveness, Face gender, linguistics (accents and old forms of languages). I'm not sure if I'm as obsessed with my obsessions as the more typical AS people, and another thing is that my obsessions are all about me (sounds self-centered :/), which is supposedly, according to someone, one of the things that differentiates people with NVLD from people with AS, people with NVLD having asset-based interests, which are supposedly interests related to the person themself.