Females with AS unite! Our struggles are being recognised!

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whirlingmind
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20 Feb 2013, 2:38 pm

Validation at last, here are a few cherry-picked quotes, link to full article at the bottom:

Quote:
"...the brain volume of the autistic girls deviated from the norm more than the volume of the autistic boys."


Quote:
"...findings that show girls to be more seriously affected by autism, Skuse says, because the girls who succeed in masking their deficit wouldn’t be included in studies. And so they are missing from the picture. “There is no doubt in my mind that the way we have defined autism currently biases our assessments strongly in the direction of identifying a male stereotype,” he says. The C.D.C. agrees and says that as a result the estimate for the number of girls with autism and normal intelligence may be low."


Quote:
"In a 1994 paper, Lainhart and Folstein pointed out that despite the 4-to-1 male-female ratio for autism, females made up half the autistic patients with mood disorders described in the medical literature."


Quote:
"Contrary to the Asperger’s stereotype, Caitlyn struggles in math but tests in the highly gifted range in reading and writing."
(this could be me!)

Quote:
"Undermined by anxiety and depression, women with autism appear to be more often confined to the small world of their families."


Quote:
"Katherine Loveland, a psychiatry professor, recently compared 700 autistic boys and 300 autistic girls and found that while the boys’ “abnormal communications” decreased as I.Q. scores rose, the girls’ did not. “Girls will have more trouble with social networks if they’re having greater difficulty with communication and language,” she says.

And so girls with autism and normal intelligence may end up at a particular disadvantage. In a new study published in May, a group of German researchers compared 23 high-functioning autistic girls with 23 high-functioning boys between the ages of 5 and 20, matching them for age, I.Q. and autism diagnosis. Parents reported more problems for girls involving peer relations, maturity, social independence and attention."


Quote:
"Undermined by anxiety and depression, women with autism appear to be more often confined to the small world of their families."


Quote:
"Lainhart says that while boys are aware of rejection and bullying, in her experience they are not hurt by it to the extent that some girls are. “I have rarely had a male patient with autism become suicidal or express such intense emotional pain,” she says."


Quote:
"Lainhart has seen the same blend of anxiety and depression in other female patients."


Quote:
"Klin and Lainhart also say they think that the world is a more forgiving place for boys with the quirks of Asperger’s because, like it or not, awkwardness is a more acceptable male trait."


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/05/magaz ... d=all&_r=0

And this is one in the eye for all those males on the forum that say that we don't have it as difficult as male Aspies, not only do we have it as difficult but we have it more difficult.


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Tyri0n
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20 Feb 2013, 3:10 pm

.k



Last edited by Tyri0n on 20 Feb 2013, 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MjrMajorMajor
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20 Feb 2013, 3:16 pm

It's not about a battle of the sexes, or who has it worse. It's about female autistics being recognized, and broadening the very limited knowledge out there.



GiantHockeyFan
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20 Feb 2013, 3:23 pm

I have a few thoughts when it comes to this. The first is that this further confirms my suspicion that my GF has Autism and in addition to having all the symptoms, she has severe anxiety and depression. I would not doubt that many female Aspies are simply not recognized because they are just seen as being 'typical emotional females' but I won't doubt female Aspies suffer mightily.

I'm also thinking about how in my visits to mental health experts, all universally denied that I was in rough emotional shape because I'm so good at hiding it. Yes, I felt suicidal and yes, the social rejection hurt more than any concussion and I'm sick of being invalidated because males are forced to hide their emotions at an early age. I might look happy but many days I struggle to get out of bed, especially this time of year. Bottom line: both male and female Aspies struggle in ways only small pockets of humanity (such as our WP community) can understand and outside of niche careers (Engineering, Computer Science) aspies are usually looked upon in a negative light.

I totally disagree with the idea that awkwardness is more accepted in males. I know about 10 "possible Aspies" at about a 50/50 rate and the females are MUCH more accepted, have more friends and generally look happier than the males even though their awkwardness is much more immediately noticeable.



Verdandi
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20 Feb 2013, 3:27 pm

Tyri0n wrote:
A lot of males ALSO have the problems that are attributed to women in those studies, including the mood disorders, so I'd rather see less stereotyping and generalization on both sides.


The studies don't say that men never have those problems. They say that women are more likely to have them.

Quote:
Perhaps females, as adults, become better at masking social deficits (like flat affect) while males are better at masking emotional problems. Who is to say it's any easier for one or the other? It seems pretty tough for both. And, besides, individual variation is such that any generalizations are not useful.


The article doesn't make broad claims about who has it easier or harder. It does point out problems that autistic women have to deal with.

The point of articles like this is to elaborate on how autistic women differ from autistic men, to make it easier to identify autistic women. The reality is that when it comes to diagnosis and research, men do have it better. They're more likely to have their symptoms taken seriously, more likely to be caught earlier, and more likely to be included in research. Despite the 4:1 ratio of men to women cited in the article, Christopher Gillberg says that he believes the true ratio is closer to 1.5:1. Other research has found that girls and women who present with autistic symptoms are taken less seriously than boys and men, and are less likely to be correctly diagnosed.



Tyri0n
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20 Feb 2013, 3:35 pm

.k



Last edited by Tyri0n on 20 Feb 2013, 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

shubunkin
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20 Feb 2013, 3:46 pm

Thanks for this OP, I wish I could wave these quotes at my family and a few friends that I told about going for a diagnosis.

Most of them laughed at me, and made obvious hints at hypochondria/ attention-seeking behaviour....

I am so fed up of people without specific knowledge on AS pushing their ignorant point of view !

As far as they are concerned if I can pull off appearing normal for a while then this must be proof that I don't have it.... Its like suggesting that because I don't go around wheezing all day long I've never had an asthma attack and never needed treatment for it.

So yes, it is great news - and finally women on the spectrum are being given a voice, and are starting to be taken seriously and diagnosed.

Even the Daily Mail is onto it too in the UK..... :lol:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/artic ... e-you.html



whirlingmind
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20 Feb 2013, 4:23 pm

MjrMajorMajor wrote:
It's not about a battle of the sexes, or who has it worse. It's about female autistics being recognized, and broadening the very limited knowledge out there.


I agree it shouldn't be a battle of the sexes, Unfortunately in reality it is. Because of the outdated attitudes by clinicians and the data not telling the truth, (all the studies been done on males) many people generally, including male Aspies here on WP, are telling us we have it easier as females.

My aim is to redress the balance, destroy the myths and get recognition for females.


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whirlingmind
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20 Feb 2013, 4:26 pm

Verdandi wrote:
Tyri0n wrote:
A lot of males ALSO have the problems that are attributed to women in those studies, including the mood disorders, so I'd rather see less stereotyping and generalization on both sides.


The studies don't say that men never have those problems. They say that women are more likely to have them.

Quote:
Perhaps females, as adults, become better at masking social deficits (like flat affect) while males are better at masking emotional problems. Who is to say it's any easier for one or the other? It seems pretty tough for both. And, besides, individual variation is such that any generalizations are not useful.


The article doesn't make broad claims about who has it easier or harder. It does point out problems that autistic women have to deal with.

The point of articles like this is to elaborate on how autistic women differ from autistic men, to make it easier to identify autistic women. The reality is that when it comes to diagnosis and research, men do have it better. They're more likely to have their symptoms taken seriously, more likely to be caught earlier, and more likely to be included in research. Despite the 4:1 ratio of men to women cited in the article, Christopher Gillberg says that he believes the true ratio is closer to 1.5:1. Other research has found that girls and women who present with autistic symptoms are taken less seriously than boys and men, and are less likely to be correctly diagnosed.


Right on Verdandi. Every article and piece of research like this will further our cause! :rambo:

It's high time we got recognition. If I told you my whole story you would see why I am this fanatical about this matter.


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Zodai
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20 Feb 2013, 4:36 pm

YAY FOR GENDER EQUALITY!


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Mindslave
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20 Feb 2013, 5:11 pm

This should not be that much of a surprise. Women have it harder than men overall in any labor-based society, mainly because men are generally more fit for labor all else being equal. So it shouldn't be a surprise that people with AS (key word being people) are no different. As far as the whole "women have it easier" sure, to the extent of entitlement and getting things for nothing, yes women have it easier. Or harder, depending on how much people value privacy. Determining who has "it" easier depends on what the goals and values are.



Verdandi
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20 Feb 2013, 5:21 pm

Tyri0n wrote:
.k


I saw your pre-edited post. I wasn't trying to say you were sexist, just trying to explain what I perceive this post and the linked article to be about vs. what you said you perceived it to be about.



btbnnyr
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20 Feb 2013, 5:38 pm

I don't think of autistic females as having more problems than autistic males or autistic males as having more problems than autistic females. It is good that autism is being studied in females and males.


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whirlingmind
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20 Feb 2013, 6:02 pm

Mindslave wrote:
As far as the whole "women have it easier" sure, to the extent of entitlement and getting things for nothing, yes women have it easier. Or harder, depending on how much people value privacy.


Not sure what you mean by women getting things for nothing! Not in my experience, nor in most other women's I would imagine! :roll:


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Tyri0n
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20 Feb 2013, 7:54 pm

Verdandi wrote:
Tyri0n wrote:
.k


I saw your pre-edited post. I wasn't trying to say you were sexist, just trying to explain what I perceive this post and the linked article to be about vs. what you said you perceived it to be about.


My comments were unnecessarily argumentative because I had a bad day, so the third from last quote kind of set me off. But I really had nothing of value to contribute. My personal experience doesn't matter because what's one data point? That's why I deleted them. I'm sorry.



Verdandi
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20 Feb 2013, 8:37 pm

Tyri0n wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
Tyri0n wrote:
.k


I saw your pre-edited post. I wasn't trying to say you were sexist, just trying to explain what I perceive this post and the linked article to be about vs. what you said you perceived it to be about.


My comments were unnecessarily argumentative because I had a bad day, so the third from last quote kind of set me off. But I really had nothing of value to contribute. My personal experience doesn't matter because what's one data point? That's why I deleted them. I'm sorry.


Ouch, yeah. I have had many days like this.