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Tiffinity
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02 Mar 2011, 1:27 am

I always think that people accuse you of things that bother them about themselves.

One of my very, very ex-boyfriends was a really jealous person, which is an emotion I've never understood, especially in relationships. He used to get so annoyed that I didn't react to any of his ploys to make me jealous, usually cos I wasn't in tune with jealousy and didn't notice them. He said this meant I didn't care about him which wasn't true I just felt that there was nothing to be jealous about, we were together - end of. Ironically, in the end it drove us apart. For me it was nothing to do with trusting him, I never trust anyone, I just don't feel jealousy.

I can feel envy but I think that's different altogether. To me, jealousy is when you want what someone else has at all costs even if it means taking it away from them and leaving them with nothing and envy means you'd just like it as well without anyone going without because of you and your needs.

Tiffinity.


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ColdBlooded
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02 Mar 2011, 2:02 am

I go from one extreme to the other, depending on the situation... Sometimes back and forth even within just a few minutes. If there's something interesting or something i feel like i have something to add to, i'm more "aggressive." With things that are special interests(or were special interests) i feel a sort of ownership of the topic, so if someone else is talking about it i have an urge to talk because i know that i most likely know more about it than they do. If a conversation even comes *close* to being about a special interest, i'll often start going on about it. Other times, particularly in certain classroom settings, i don't really have a big interest in the topic, but i'll think of something that hasn't been addressed and feel like adding it. With the class i'm currently taking i'm one of the more talkative people in class(when it comes to class discussions, not general socializing), because a topic will remind me of some bit of related information and i'll feel like bringing it up. It's been this way in some other classes too. When i was younger i was rarely like this, and was almost always more "passive." I didn't want to participate in class discussions much or anything like that, even if i was interested. I was always called "quiet." As i've gotten older i've gotten to where i will bring things up when i feel like it, and can even point out something i find interesting to people i might not even know(like giving snake information to random people in a pet shop who also just happen to be looking at the snakes, for example). I'm still not the kind who goes around trying to talk to everyone all the time, clings to certain people too much, or anything like that.

I do spend a lot of time being "passive" too. It just all depends on the situation and how i feel. Often i don't know what to say and don't know how to get into a conversation with people around me, so don't say anything. I'm also often thinking about things and don't want to be bothered with a lot of talking. Whenever there's just social chitchat going on(as opposed to discussion of a topic) it confuses me, so i pretty much have no idea what i'm supposed to say or whether or not i'm supposed to say anything, so i'm quiet. A lot of the time that's what it comes down to: whether it's just socializing(which gets largely ignored) or there's a topic i can contribute to(where sometimes i get talking a lot). I think i'm probably likeable... I try to be nice to people, and i don't think i'm generally obnoxious or anything like that when i talk(just maybe unusual). I also try to be helpful when i can. I have been told by some people that i'm not easy to talk to, though.



League_Girl
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02 Mar 2011, 2:43 am

I have been both my whole life.



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02 Mar 2011, 2:53 am

I think women/girls AS are more likely to be quite and reserved.



ducky9924
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02 Mar 2011, 3:25 am

ColdBlooded wrote:
I go from one extreme to the other, depending on the situation... Sometimes back and forth even within just a few minutes. If there's something interesting or something i feel like i have something to add to, i'm more "aggressive." With things that are special interests(or were special interests) i feel a sort of ownership of the topic, so if someone else is talking about it i have an urge to talk because i know that i most likely know more about it than they do. If a conversation even comes *close* to being about a special interest, i'll often start going on about it. Other times, particularly in certain classroom settings, i don't really have a big interest in the topic, but i'll think of something that hasn't been addressed and feel like adding it. With the class i'm currently taking i'm one of the more talkative people in class(when it comes to class discussions, not general socializing), because a topic will remind me of some bit of related information and i'll feel like bringing it up. It's been this way in some other classes too. When i was younger i was rarely like this, and was almost always more "passive." I didn't want to participate in class discussions much or anything like that, even if i was interested. I was always called "quiet." As i've gotten older i've gotten to where i will bring things up when i feel like it, and can even point out something i find interesting to people i might not even know(like giving snake information to random people in a pet shop who also just happen to be looking at the snakes, for example). I'm still not the kind who goes around trying to talk to everyone all the time, clings to certain people too much, or anything like that.

I do spend a lot of time being "passive" too. It just all depends on the situation and how i feel. Often i don't know what to say and don't know how to get into a conversation with people around me, so don't say anything. I'm also often thinking about things and don't want to be bothered with a lot of talking. Whenever there's just social chitchat going on(as opposed to discussion of a topic) it confuses me, so i pretty much have no idea what i'm supposed to say or whether or not i'm supposed to say anything, so i'm quiet. A lot of the time that's what it comes down to: whether it's just socializing(which gets largely ignored) or there's a topic i can contribute to(where sometimes i get talking a lot). I think i'm probably likeable... I try to be nice to people, and i don't think i'm generally obnoxious or anything like that when i talk(just maybe unusual). I also try to be helpful when i can. I have been told by some people that i'm not easy to talk to, though.


this.

I find I have three modes:

1. If we're talking about a subject I'm interested in, I get loud. I have to practice alot of self control to not talk someone's ear off. I've gotten better with self awareness...but frankly I'm still pretty sheldony. (yes, we shall call it sheldony!)
2. If it's just chit chat, or something I know nothing about, I have nothing to say. wooo akward silences...
3. If I'm trying to get something done, tracking down a bit of information I'm pretty pithy. Sometimes too much. I'll hang up and realize I forgot to ask something important. Oh well, at least on business calls I know how to behave.



Kiran
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02 Mar 2011, 5:38 am

I'm probably a passive aspie. When I was a kid I was so calm and quiet that people often asked my mother if I could talk or if I was mute. My meltdowns were directed inwards but they became more violent as a teenager and I was generally more agressive as a teen. I'm becoming more of a passive person again. I wonder if maybe it was the teenage hormones that were messing with my brain and that could be why many passive aspie become agressive in their teens?


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02 Mar 2011, 6:00 am

I think that I am, for the most part, passive. I do my best to avoid conflict. I definitely have trouble approaching people and being assertive. I really like nothing better than to just get along quietly with people.

I do have an aggressive streak, though. I have mostly managed to get this part of me under control. I have been known to be extremely outspoken for short periods of time when people are deliberately rude or grossly inconsiderate. I hate it when people fail to have consideration for others. This world is difficult enough; we do not have to make it more difficult. If we all cooperate, everybody benefits. I have a very difficult time understanding why everybody does not feel this way. I do not have meltdowns, but once in a while I will speak my mind on this issue, and afterward, I will feel very embarrassed.

Tiffinity wrote:
I always think that people accuse you of things that bother them about themselves.


I came across one person who claimed that I never admitted to being wrong. Actually, I freely admit when I am wrong. I do not make many mistakes, because I compulsively check and double check my work. This person was a very careless worker and he often made mistakes; he would never admit to his own mistakes.

I met another person who accused me of being filled with self hatred. Sorry, but while I do suffer from depression and suicidal feelings, my tendency towards self destruction have nothing to do with self hatred. My feelings are more that I am just so tired that I do not want to fight any more. I am pretty sure that the intense self-hatred that he saw did not come from me. I am glad that I do not have to live in his head.


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02 Mar 2011, 8:37 am

XFilesGeek wrote:
I attribute my apparently more pleasing demeanor to the fact I'm a "passive" Aspie who "imploded" more than I "exploded." In fact, throughout my life, my complete lack of reaction to things that most people would have had some sort of reaction to was more noteworthy than any kind of "meltdown" behavior.

Quote:
I don't "not have emotions," they're just rarely externalized and I tend to have a great deal of difficulty expressing myself in a way others can understand.


I rarely spoke in school (not even to ask to use the bathroom), and the majority of stress I felt at changes in routine, sensory nightmares, et. al. remained internalized, occasionally resulting in a meltdown; however, MY "meltdowns" would usually be in private with any violence being directed at myself only. . According to my mother, I was practically the perfect child: a tiny adult who required very little effort to raise.


I can relate to all of this exactly. I believe that if I presented the behavioural problems most people associate with ASD's from an early age, I would have been diagnosed years ago, but as I hide away and 'bottle up' my emotions (especially those of anger) people didn't see a problem because I wasn't causing them a problem. But that doesn't mean I didn't have problems.

To be honest I feel let down by the people who should have been looking out for me when I was a child, and I feel their ignorance has cost me a lot in life already. To me it just seems selfish that because I wasn't a 'naughty boy' I was ignored because it was the easy option all thoughout my school days and I was just thought of by adults as quiet, shy and imaginative, and to children: just a weirdo and a geek. It seems that schools just want so-called 'behaviouraly challenged' autistics so they can get government funding.

What people didn't realize (and still don't) is that just because I don't often have public 'meltdowns' and tantrums, it doesn't mean I don't feel the agony inside and take out my frustrations and anger to a sometimes dangerous degree when I am alone. I know people aren't mind readers or anything, but the warning signs have always been there, it's just that people haven't ever bothered to look for them.

People always seem to look for stereotypes when it comes to Autism, but that isn't always the case.


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02 Mar 2011, 8:57 am

XFilesGeek wrote:
As a child, I was obsessed with being polite and following the rules, I rarely spoke in school (not even to ask to use the bathroom), and the majority of stress I felt at changes in routine, sensory nightmares, et. al. remained internalized, occasionally resulting in a meltdown; however, MY "meltdowns" would usually be in private with any violence being directed at myself only.

I never directed violence at myself and only ever very rarely toward anyone else until a time at age 27 when I had finally "had enough" and could take no more ... and that bit of "acting out" ultimately landed me in prison for a little while.

The "real me" is definitely that "passive Aspie", but my "self-advocacy" is aggressive and is subject to being worsened by my social incompetence.

Personally, I see no need to classify "generally passive" and "occasionally aggressive" Aspies separately.


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KBerg
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02 Mar 2011, 9:26 am

I am by nature a very private person. I don't like loud noises or screaming even at the best of times, so I never meltdown into that. Mostly, like the Hulk, when it gets to that point I just want to be left alone to sit on my rock in the desert. Unlike the Hulk (since real humans aren't written by writers who want to see tanks in tiny pieces) puny humans avoid upset introverts, so no Aspie Smash is needed.

While I do feel angry towards others, I sometimes curse that I can by now usually see things from their point of view with a little bit of thinking. Which frustrates me because once you can see things from the other person's point of view it's a lot harder to focus your anger on them. Instead the burden of success seems to fall on you, as you're the one who has the missing piece they lack. In this case, the ability to see both sides. It does mean a lot of things get turned inwards instead. It really sucks at times, it would be so much nicer to not be able to see their point, not be aware that they too have feelings and may have their own problems. I envy jerks, it must be so nice to be your stereotypical jerk. Nothing seems to ever affect them. They're like frigging ducks, everything except projectiles seems to just roll right off them.

I know most people regard me as a fairly easy if quiet person to get along with. I'm not very Sheldony, I don't have to have a special seat, or have pizza only on Saturdays always with the same toppings, or have to always do things on the right time according to a rigid schedule. I don't even like having rigid schedules, they feel constricting and limiting. I like my freedom. You can imagine how well that goes over with AS 'experts' who have suggested 'helpful' ways to improve my life by turning each part of it into detailed timed list. What if I suddenly feel like Chinese, or I want to go see a movie, or I would rather skip the store today? If someone's wrong I don't have to correct them. Although if their plan is based on incorrect information and they're having me on-board when they drive their flawed plan right off the cliff I'm correcting them - I'm much more behind other people finding things out for themselves when I don't have a stake in things going right. Of course this always surprises people almost as much as my ability to speak and gets used in the "No, you can't be, you're too calm/quiet/nice/flexible to have AS" context. Mostly I'm just the quiet weird person who doesn't really seem to fit in anywhere.

I know that's what made them not really sure if AS was a good fit. Someone like me isn't really supposed to exist according to so many. I'm supposed to be all Sheldony, and instead if someone drops by unexpectedly and wants to go to a movie I can drop everything and be like cool! People absolutely do take my DX way less seriously than they do with those who display more, ah, classical AS symptoms if you will. Especially since I can do quite well in social situations ... for limited amounts of time. Most of my social interactions are for limited amounts of time, heck, most of everyone's social interactions are for limited amounts of time. The problem is they're not seeing how exhausted it makes me. To use an alcohol comparison, they see my intoxication but they never have to deal with my hangover. Thus my hangover doesn't exist to them and the intoxication - the social mask I'm forced to wear - is all there is to the real me.



alone
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02 Mar 2011, 10:25 am

I'm extra Sheldoney. I have learned to hide it because of how offensive, boring it can get, but secretly don't bother to voice my thoughts because after all they are a different species. (I realize this is not true) I have all his quirks too...his place on the couch, the food stuff, unable to play along with someone's representation of themselves when it is false or hiding something. The too real things he says to people that offend them..."No she doesn't love you..she hasn't called in a year." The way he sees human biological sides or emotional natures. The way he drives. :lol: Love comic books, comic book shops, fantasy heros, and video games are real..lol. My friends-family love/hate me. He is kind of odd looking and I wonder if he were more attractive if it would change how he is treated? People initially see me a athletic, outdoorsy...lol...nature is cool to study but without temperature control and my place on the couch it is annoying.

the subtypes are waaaayyy different and maybe some of it is forced due to childhood environment...my parents just forced me to be as normal as possible


:oops:



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02 Mar 2011, 10:33 am

I try to avoid conflicts, but my temper is so uncontrollable sometimes, that I feel real shame and regret it very much later. So, I'm both can be quiet and raging. Quite typical. It hurts me deeply, when some people seem completely misunderstand me, and then I have to "swallow" a lot, if I want peace. I can not express myself very often, when I would be required to protect myself. Especially when stressed. Just stammering.

Could it be that those of us with aggression would not bother themselves with typing?



leejosepho
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02 Mar 2011, 10:36 am

OJani wrote:
Could it be that those of us with aggression would not bother themselves with typing?

Not us "keyboard commandos"! :wink:


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02 Mar 2011, 11:14 am

KBerg wrote:
While I do feel angry towards others, I sometimes curse that I can by now usually see things from their point of view with a little bit of thinking. Which frustrates me because once you can see things from the other person's point of view it's a lot harder to focus your anger on them. Instead the burden of success seems to fall on you, as you're the one who has the missing piece they lack. In this case, the ability to see both sides. It does mean a lot of things get turned inwards instead. It really sucks at times, it would be so much nicer to not be able to see their point, not be aware that they too have feelings and may have their own problems. I envy jerks, it must be so nice to be your stereotypical jerk. Nothing seems to ever affect them. They're like frigging ducks, everything except projectiles seems to just roll right off them.

Ditto here. Enlightenment can be a pain in the butt. :evil: I envy the chavs, in that respect at least. And I've been surprised by the approval I've won when my usual code of honour has slipped - the one time I committed an act of significant violence, my status went up with the people around me, and one guy actually wanted to shake my hand. But if I had to go through it again, I'd have avoided the violence. It's weird but people like people who stand up for themselves....I guess they think anything else is weakness. I think sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. Depends on the mindset of the observer how it's picked up, cowardice can masquerade as grace, and vice versa.

I've been relatively passive (in some sense of the word) since my teens. Mum was overbearing and very aggressive for most of the time, so I grew up with a hatred of aggression. As I grew older the entire house seemed to become a bear-garden of rebuke and contradiction, which I joined in with......it was very ugly, but that was the last time I remember feeling really free to speak my mind.....none of us knew that we were hurting each other's feelings, so there was a lot of immediacy, which I missed later when I decided that I ought to conduct myself better.

I suppose a lot of my early behaviour was aggressive in a way, I'd burst into other people's conversations and trap them with my long discourses and embarrassingly naive attempts at seeming cool. I somehow dominated the band I was in.....I never overtly shoved anybody around, but I got my own way a lot, and didn't take it on board when the bass player complained that I was always trying to "put the rest of us through your keyboard" as he put it. But the penny did eventually drop, and I was a lot more prepared to share stuff evenly with the other bands I later joined.

The level of aggression or passivity really came into sharp focus with close relationships. I was very passive with my first 2 girlfriends, and they took advantage of that. But the third one lasted a long time......she seemed to go the same way as the other two, taking me for granted etc., until I rebelled and really started putting my foot down. I remember wondering where my pluck was coming from, as it was clear I was shaking up the whole relationship, and I had very little confidence that I'd get another partner if I lost her. But surprisingly, none of it put her off me, and I felt able to say exactly what I thought to her, and eventually we settled down to our new deal, she knew my limits and stayed within them, and we stopped fighting.

I've never been anything like so openly aggressive to any other partner since, and only very rarely shown anger directly towards them. I didn't want a repeat of what happened before. When I have "slipped," I've always felt awful about it, though it's curious how I make allowances for a bit of anger in others but not in myself.

I tend not to challenge partners about their behaviour, even when that behaviour is quite a serious threat to our harmony. I tend to just try to make plain what I need and then let them do what they will....even failing to issue fair warning that I'm getting so fed up of it that I'm considering leaving them, though I think these days I've corrected that. Thing is, I don't openly demand anything from a partner, because if I have to demand it, it's not likely to be given to me in the right spirit, and it might not last so long. The demands are still in a sense there, i.e. I still have needs and expectations, and the relationship will still fail if they're not requieted, but there's a lot less shouting about it....if my partner wants to know where she stands, she can ask and I'll give her a straight answer, and I might volunteer the most important deal-breakers, but I'm never, ever going to get on their case about it.

I suppose one of the problems is that I've never really felt that any of my partners was particularly committed to me (though I'm not saying they actually had no commitment)......at least I can imagine it might be easier for me to complain and have the occasional healthy row if I could feel that a relationship was really well-grounded in mutual commitment. It really does feel like every negative thing I say or do would poison the whole deal.

I think it was Roger Daltry who said that The Who survived as a band for so long because they always had heated arguments and felt safe to say exactly what they thought.

As for passivity, I'm not really passive. I might seem it with my tolerant, liberal persona, but nobody seems to be able to push me around for long. Somebody called it "quiet strength" a long time ago. I can be very friendly with my rebellions.



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02 Mar 2011, 12:16 pm

OJani wrote:
It hurts me deeply, when some people seem completely misunderstand me, and then I have to "swallow" a lot, if I want peace.

I just had a literal interpretation moment. I thought to myself, how does that work??
Sorry. Back to your regularly scheduled thread.



Telekon
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02 Mar 2011, 4:16 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
Yes, I'm still an Aspie, not a "schizoid" or some such nonsense.


How long have you known this?