Weird Boring Friendless Pedantic Nerdy NT = Aspie?

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bumble
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03 May 2011, 3:25 pm

Why is nerdy considered boring?

You know we live on a fascinating planet with much history and all most people want to do is talk about shopping for shoes, small talk and gossip. Personally I consider that to be boring. God forbid they should use a brain cell for something useful and interesting.

As for the difference between a Nerdy NT and an Aspie I don't know. I am still trying to figure out which I am myself.



swbluto
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03 May 2011, 3:35 pm

bumble wrote:
Why is nerdy considered boring?

You know we live on a fascinating planet with much history and all most people want to do is talk about shopping for shoes, small talk and gossip. Personally I consider that to be boring. God forbid they should use a brain cell for something useful and interesting.

As for the difference between a Nerdy NT and an Aspie I don't know. I am still trying to figure out which I am myself.


Oh ho ho, yes, there's variation in the subjects/topics people find interesting and nerdiness doesn't necessarily entail you're boring to everyone(In fact, if you're fairly neurotypical, there's bound to be someone who'll be interested in you regardless of your interests.), but there are, in fact, a significant subset of nerds out there considered boring just as there are significant amount of normal people out there considered boring.

So, it's not necessarily nerds are boring... but, rather, we're considering the boring nerds. In particular, the pedantic, weird and friendless types.



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03 May 2011, 3:36 pm

Among other nerds, a nerdy NT would fit in. An aspie would not. At least that's what I'm thinking. Previously, I had always thought that when I would meet other nerds in my higher level science and engineering classes that I would fit in. I can hardly notice a difference. I don't feel any more like them than I do with the random yahoos I have in my other classes.


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03 May 2011, 3:45 pm

swbluto wrote:
bee33 wrote:
swbluto wrote:
bee33 wrote:
Whoever said that Aspies were boring?


Monotone = boring.

People can say pretty fascinating things even in a monotone voice. Some people are charmed by long speeches... ;)


Assuming these aspies say fascinating things. I don't know about you, but my peers don't find anything fascinating about Hawking Radiation and the role of virtual photons and quantum fluctuations in a blackhole's evaporation.


Ahh, you just need to present it correctly (hint: add strippers)


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bumble
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03 May 2011, 3:54 pm

SammichEater wrote:
Previously, I had always thought that when I would meet other nerds in my higher level science and engineering classes that I would fit in. I can hardly notice a difference. I don't feel any more like them than I do with the random yahoos I have in my other classes.


I know that feeling. I don't really fit in anywhere myself. I seem to be a walking oddity and I have a strange combination of traits that mean I don't fit into one group or the other or the other or...



TPE2
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03 May 2011, 6:38 pm

Present DSM criteria for AS:

Quote:
(I) Qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:

(A) marked impairments in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body posture, and gestures to regulate social interaction
(B) failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level
(C) a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interest or achievements with other people, (e.g.. by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people)
(D) lack of social or emotional reciprocity

(II) Restricted repetitive & stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests and activities, as manifested by at least one of the following:

(A) encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus
(B) apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals
(C) stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g. hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements)
(D) persistent preoccupation with parts of objects


(III) The disturbance causes clinically significant impairments in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

(IV) There is no clinically significant general delay in language (E.G. single words used by age 2 years, communicative phrases used by age 3 years)

(V) There is no clinically significant delay in cognitive development or in the development of age-appropriate self help skills, adaptive behavior (other than in social interaction) and curiosity about the environment in childhood.

(VI) Criteria are not met for another specific Pervasive Developmental Disorder or Schizophrenia.


A "weird boring friendless pedantic nerdy NT" will match the criteria I-B ("friendless") and I-D ("friendless", "boring").

Perhaps he will also match II-A; I am not sure about that : you can be "boring" without having "stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest" - you can have a broad and diverse range of boring interests (I am not an English-speaker, but I think that there is a school of thought that considers that a nerd has broad boring interests, while a geek has narrow boring interests...); however, I have the impression that at least some clinicians uses the criteria "if you are not interested in «normal» issues, your pattern of interests is restricted" - if we go by this criteria, a "boring nerd" matchs by definition the criteria II-A

About III - being "friendless" is enough to be considered "clinically significant impairments in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning"? In the case of children or teenagers I suspect that parents, teachers and psychologists/psychiatrists will consider a friendless children/teen as having a "clinically significant impairments in social (...) area", even if he feels perfectly happy with that (in reality, I suspect that parents, etc. will be even more quicker to assume "significant impairment" in the case of someone who is happy about being friendless).

Then, according at least to some possible interpretations of the DSM criteria, a "weird boring friendless pedantic nerdy NT" will have AS by definition.

Some people had talked about "reading non-verbal cues", "sensory problems" but, at the present moment, none of this is required for a diagnosis of AS (although "reading non-verbal cues" will more or less be required for a diagnosis of autism according to the DSM5).



syrella
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03 May 2011, 7:07 pm

The difference between the two is a bit hard to distinguish, I think, as a nerdy NT would probably have a lot of Aspie traits, but maybe not the full-blown condition. So where do you draw the line is probably the big question at hand. I think the key, as others have said, is where the problems are coming from.

If it's due to just not finding the right social group, then I'd suggest that the person is probably NT.

If the problems persist even among those with similar interests (and the problems are severe enough), then you start getting into the Asperger's realm.

I for one have never felt like I am part of a group, even when I am with others that share my interests. There is always a disconnect. Posting here to WP is about the only time I've felt that I'm on the same wavelength as those around me and that people actually "get" what I'm saying (with the rare exception of my friend who is also an Aspie). I'm very used to being left in the dust socially (even on other online forums), but I don't feel that way here.


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03 May 2011, 7:17 pm

Lorna Wing, the inventor of the concept of "Asperger's Syndrome", about the difference between AS and a being only nerd/shy/introvert:

http://www.mugsy.org/wing2.htm

Quote:
Differential diagnosis

(...)

Normal variant of personality


All the features that characterise Asperger syndrome can be found in varying degrees in the normal population. People differ in their levels of skill in social interaction and in their ability to read nonverbal social cues. There is an equally wide distribution in motor skills. Many who are capable and independent as adults have special interests that they pursue with marked enthusiasm. Collecting objects such as stamps, old glass bottles, or railway engine numbers are socially accepted hobbies. Asperger (1979) pointed out that the capacity to withdraw into an inner world of one's own special interests is available in a greater or lesser measure to all human beings. He emphasised that this ability has to be present to marked extent in those who are creative artists or scientists. The difference between someone with Asperger syndrome and the normal person who has a complex inner world is that the latter does take part appropriately in two-way social interaction at times, while the former does not. Also, the normal person, however elaborate his inner world, is influenced by his social experiences, whereas the person with Asperger syndrome seems cut off from the effects of outside contacts.

A number of normal adults have outstandingly good rote memories and even retain eidetic imagery into adult life. Pedantic speech and a tendency to take things literally can also be found in normal people.

It is possible that some people could be classified as suffering from Asperger syndrome because they are at the extreme end of the normal continuum on all these features. In others, one particular aspect may be so marked that it affects the whole of their functioning. The man described by Luria (1965), whose visual memories of objects and events were so vivid and so permanent that they interfered with his comprehension of their significance, seemed to have behaved not unlike someone with Asperger syndrome. Unfortunately, Luria did not give enough details to allow a diagnosis to be made.

Even though Asperger syndrome does appear to merge into the normal continuum, there are many cases in whom the problems are so marked that the suggestion of a distinct pathology seems a more plausible explanation than a variant of normality.

(...)

The reasons for personality variations are so obscure that classifying Asperger syndrome under this heading does not lead to any testable hypotheses concerning cause, clinical phenomena, pathology or management. A more limited, but more productive, view of the problem is to consider it as a consequence of impairment of certain aspects of cognitive and social development.



Apple_in_my_Eye
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03 May 2011, 7:26 pm

SammichEater wrote:
Among other nerds, a nerdy NT would fit in. An aspie would not. At least that's what I'm thinking. Previously, I had always thought that when I would meet other nerds in my higher level science and engineering classes that I would fit in. I can hardly notice a difference. I don't feel any more like them than I do with the random yahoos I have in my other classes.


I thought the same thing, and my experience in college was out the same. When I got out of my small hometown to a big university I got to meet people who were even better at physics and had normal social ability at the same time. (And the same for the grad students and professors.)

The one thing in common seemed to be an ability/interest to do "shop-talk," on a deep and extended level. But that was it.