Are Aspies More Intelligent than Normal People?

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Assimilate
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21 Nov 2010, 6:20 pm

Hey! I'm writing an article for Cracked, a comedy website that I've been following for a few months now. The article is about six or seven common misconceptions people have about mental illnesses (but I'm also extending it to personality and social disorders, such as psychopathy and Asperger's).

For one of the six misconceptions, I will be using the myth that having Asperger's makes you a genius/makes you more intelligent/makes you score higher on the IQ test. I have Asperger's and only scored 117, but I can't use my own experience as there is no way to cite it or provide proof because it's a personal thing.

But the thing is, I need sources and studies that tested the intelligence of people with Asperger's OR high-functioning autism compared to "normal" people. The elements tested can range from IQ tests to problem-solving skills or just general intelligence tests - anything along those lines. People seem to look at people with Asperger's as geniuses who can list dozens of scientific theories and explain each of them in great depths, so I would really like to use this one.

I need something that I can cite, like a study or a book or even a website. Anything. Help would be appreciated.

Thanks!



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21 Nov 2010, 6:26 pm

Would love to help. I haven't got much time today though. So I hope people keep bumping this thread up.

Personally I don't think AS makes you a genius. It just makes you have more knowledge in a certain area. I really don't get why they score higher on IQ tests. I suppose they're good at math and history. That's pretty much what i struggled with on an IQ test. They never gave me my full score. I got above 90 and on other in depth online and bought IQ tests I get between 105-129.

I'll try to find you some sources though.


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21 Nov 2010, 6:33 pm

pensieve wrote:
.

Personally I don't think AS makes you a genius. It just makes you have more knowledge in a certain area.


Agreed. When I took the Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale, I made genius in some areas, and average/above average in others. My doctor told me that it is common for people with Asperger's to have uneven skills. I believe it's because many Aspies are not focused in as much on the social aspect of life as the general population so they have more time to concentrate on their interests, which makes them seem smarter. Also, I believe there are genius and non-genius Aspies. Also, I don't believe your intelligence can be measured by a test, and represented by a number.



Mysty
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21 Nov 2010, 6:37 pm

I don't know anything about studies. Can't help you with that. Just want to throw out the thought, I think it's a matter of being differently intelligent.


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ruveyn
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21 Nov 2010, 6:38 pm

Aspies are not necessarily smarter than NTs but they tend to be more focused.

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21 Nov 2010, 6:59 pm

Technically, a person can't be diagnosed with AS if their IQ is less than 70. It's my uderstanding that that's how the "no clinically significant delay in cognitive development" part of the diagnostic criterion is usually interpreted. That cut-off of low scores artificially boosts the average IQ, though I can't remember off-hand how much.

Also, I think that high verbal IQ tends to give people the impression of high intelligence, regardless of the reality. I.e. when I was younger my big vocabulary and cluelessness about the social implications of big-word-usage would tend to make adults think I was smarter than I really was. I think that can lead to stereotypes of high intelligence that aren't reality.

Another factor, though, is that it seems to be hard to accurately test autistic intelligence. (I don't know a lot of detail about that, though. Michelle Dawson might be someone to look up about that.) I.e. a lot have an IQ gap, and if it's big enough you're technically not supposed to be given a full-scale IQ number. IQ tests are most accurate for people with even skill distributions, and autistics characteristically have really uneven skills (compared to "normal," anyway). So, in a way, the concept of IQ accurately measuring intelligence in autistics is questionable. I've heard of a least one ASC person who was in grad school who had a tested IQ of 75. And then stories of people with really high IQ's but massive EF problems, such that they need a helper to function in daily life.

Good thread on the subject here:

"Are Aspies More Intelligent Than Normal People?"



samsa
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21 Nov 2010, 7:10 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Aspies are not necessarily smarter than NTs but they tend to be more focused.

Yeah, this is about right. Aspies can come across as very intelligent if their special interest is something that is seen as "smart," think the hard sciences, maths, or philosophy.

Lack of time spent socializing may also mean more time spent learning about their special interest, again, meaning they come across as "more smart."

As for me, I've never been tested (either for IQ or for AS, although I suspect I've got a somewhat high-functioning version of the condition,) but I've always kept good grades in school (although this is no indicator of intelligence, obviously.)


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21 Nov 2010, 7:39 pm

Here's a 2010 study below. I agree about extra focus/interest on certain topics may make them appear a lot smarter than they are. Sometimes I think people over-estimate their abilities because of a child-like social/emotional IQ with average IQ but obsession with a given topic makes them look like they're more gifted than they really are, I think?

----------------------------------------------

Psychol Assess. 2010 Jun;22(2):213-22.

WISC-III index score profiles of 520 Swedish children with pervasive developmental disorders.
Zander E, Dahlgren SO.

Department of Women's and Children's Health, Child and Adolescent Psychiatry Division, Karolinska Institute, Stockholm, Sweden. [email protected]

Abstract
WISC-III (Wechsler, 1991) index score profiles and their characteristics were examined with traditional statistics in a large Swedish sample consisting of children with autistic disorder (n = 85), Asperger's disorder (n = 341), or pervasive developmental disorders not otherwise specified (PDD-NOS; n = 94). There was a clear and significant difference in level between children with Asperger's disorder, who performed in the average range according to the Swedish standardization, and children with either autistic disorder or PDD-NOS, who performed below the average range (almost 2 standard deviations below the mean), but few other differences between the diagnostic groups were found. The variation in this sample, compared with the Swedish standardization, was generally larger in regard to the size of standard deviations and to the proportion of individuals who exhibited significant differences between indices. The result implied that a WISC-III profile could not be used to discriminate between the different PDDs.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20528049



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21 Nov 2010, 8:31 pm

I've had various IQ tests, the first when I was in primary school, when I scored so far above average that they tested me again to make sure there wasn't a mistake, and then bumped me up two years. Since then my IQ tests have showed extreme peaks and valleys... 160 plus in some areas, 80ish in others. Over all my IQ is (apparently) between 127 and 138.

It's not done me any good... I'm the most incredibly overqualified polyglot you could imagine living on benefits. Basically, I think I'm an idiot savant without the appropriate social skills to help me use my talents. I've managed to bluff in certain social situations, but when it comes to work, I come across as a snob, and nobody can stand me.

I'd sooner be thick.



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21 Nov 2010, 9:08 pm

Quote:
Are Aspies More Intelligent than Normal People?
Nope. We're just different. There are a lot of very intelligent autistic people (not just Asperger's--autism in general); but there are also a lot who are below average or outright cognitively impaired.

There's one technicality that raises the average Aspie IQ to about 102 rather than 100: If you have a cognitive disability with an IQ or 70 or below, you can't be diagnosed with Asperger's. And if you have a delay in self-help skills, you also can't be diagnosed with Asperger's. So everybody in that lower bracket is banned from the diagnosis and given a PDD-NOS or Autistic Disorder diagnosis instead--that raises the average by a couple of points.

But this is an artifact of how we're diagnosed, not something intrinsic to autism. The differences in the study Kon mentioned were probably created entirely by the process of diagnosis, not by any actual differences between the different groups!

What you will find in autistic people with fair regularity is not overall high intelligence (necessarily; there are gifted autistics, obviously, just like gifted NTs). Instead, you find isolated talents. One person might be very good at music; another might be very good at science; another might be very good at writing. These things can be quite striking. At the extreme end of that spectrum, you'll have people who have outright savant syndrome or who are child prodigies.

People with AS also often have very large vocabularies, which makes us sound smarter than we are. We often collect words because it is easier to be very precise in what we're saying than to try to use non-verbal communication to add that precision, the way neurotypicals do. It's kind of a compensatory strategy.


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21 Nov 2010, 9:20 pm

We're more specialized interest wise than NT's. So its average-above average intelligence with possible genius levels of knowledge in a specialized topic.


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21 Nov 2010, 9:35 pm

It's the focus that we have that makes us seem smarter.


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21 Nov 2010, 9:44 pm

When I was tested by the school district in addition to my HFA/AS Dx, I shined when it came to things like english and spatial skills. But I didn't do too good in math. For example, in the 11th grade my english skills were comparable to a freshman in college but my math skills are at the 7th grade equivalent.



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21 Nov 2010, 10:02 pm

Well it depends how you look at it, there is NTs who are very intelligent of course.

But if you compare the IQs of everyone who is not Aspie (i.e. NTs and all others) versus everyone who is Aspie, then yes, the average Aspie is more intelligent the the average person in the general population, because to be diagnosed with Aspergers your IQ can't be lower then average.

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21 Nov 2010, 10:16 pm

High IQ doesn't make you a genius. High IQ means you are ridiculously good at IQ tests.


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21 Nov 2010, 10:36 pm

pensieve wrote:
High IQ doesn't make you a genius. High IQ means you are ridiculously good at IQ tests.


The opening question was not whether Aspies had a higher I.Q. (a test score) than NTs but whether they were more intelligent.

ruveyn