Informal Verification of Asperger's Syndrome

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Greetings,
Although there is little doubt that there have probably been topics discussing cases similar to this one, I would prefer a more personalized version, if such is acceptable by the rules. The method by which this should proceed is that I will begin a summary of notable conditions followed by your questions and comments about it. After some point, I would like a plausibility rating for the most likely conditions.

As a child, I had spent most of my time either reading, sleeping, or constructing Lego (R) models. During holidays, I was taken to the homes of my relatives for brief parties and meals, which I disliked. Apparently, asking about how long events like these would last was inappropriate. During these days, whole hours could pass with barely more than a few minutes of talking in total. However, I did face an insatiable desire to discuss my favorite sciences, which I prevented due to the many negative effects of discussing such things to excess.

During middle school, I noticed that people would, "coagulate," as I thought at the time. What I found odd was that others were simply never as interesting as objects. To a neurotypical, it would almost seem as though I had switched the roles of the biological and electronic. This was mainly due to the lack of any requirement for social dynamics. Many lunch periods would pass in which I thought about the periodic table found in the student planners. To me, any such organized information was, "friendly."

High school began the current issues to be discussed. Before reading a book whose title I now forget, I did not realize that messy hair indicated low intelligence or economic status or even both. The same was true for walking in a narrow pattern compared to the usual method. Added to this was the fact that others would feel threatened if I did not make eye contact, which was the reverse of my view and thought. The most useful bit indicated something about how neurotypicals could add meaning to their words by facial expressions. I think that this component of the syndrome is mostly resolved, as I can fake convincing expressions for most purposes, although a lack of concentration on this generally results in a questions similar to, "Is there something wrong? Why do you look so blank?" This seems to occur even when I feel what may be described as happy. Taking three years of a language class (French) seems to have helped with understanding the roots of some idioms and why they may be more literal than what is expected in addition to understanding the concept of connotations. However, I think that the most significant event was catching myself thinking in something other than words. Even now, that is a mystery, and I think that it may be called thinking in concepts or images.

However, to this day, I can state with reasonable confidence that the strongest symptom is a combination of excessive compilation of data and hyperfocus on the data. Although this will be good for my future, the short-term effects are almost restricted to a practical destruction of social capabilities. Even when I see familiar faces, I do not actively greet the people. However, I do respond to greetings, which indicates that the likely issue is the lack of a drive to initiate socialization.

Last edited by coemgenih on 05 Nov 2011, 1:43 am, edited 2 times in total.

Yeah, you have it I think the fact that you wrote "Lego (R) models" pretty much gives it away.

Of course, I'm a billion zillion miles from being qualified to diagnose anyone, especially from a couple paragraphs on the internet.

And sort of joking, but not really: the "(R)" rang a bell, metaphoric type of bell that is.

Hello, Hermier.
I would like to know why, "(R)," implicates Asperger's Syndrome. Does it relate to a drive for following the laws to the letter or is it something else?

Those two 'topics' are the ones that suggest most strongly to me that you have AS. As the previous poster said, I am in no way medically qualified to diagnose anybody or anything.

LOL!

I demonstrates an unnecessary level of formality. You adhere to an extreme level of precision in your expressive communication. Both of these are very typical of people with Autism Spectrum Disorders.

There is a thread at the top of this forum that lists a number of online self-assessment tests. Have you examined those tests?

(Excessive formality considered when writing this response)
I have checked some of them but they always seem to over-diagnose me. Myself, I do not believe Asperger's Syndrome is a disorder, so I generally assume that it is nothing more than a useful phenotype. However, unlike the countless high-functioning demitrolls, I do not use this as an excuse for anything but the obvious symptoms of excessive formality. It seems as though the pretenders do not even consider that educated speech without the usage of profanities would be more convincing than blatant verbal negativity. I am not sure about actually having Asperger's Syndrome because the popular opinion seems to be that individuals diagnosed with it have low empathy, when I do have plenty of empathy, but without the intuitive ability to simply apply it without deliberation.

Post Scriptum: Thank you for the criticism. I am still unsure about the level of formality on this post, but that problem was considered when I was still writing. On a similar note, do most hyperlexic individuals also exhibit autism-spectrum, "disorders," as well?

coemgenih, at the risk of sounding argumentative, AS has been classified as a PDD (pervasive development disorder).

I have not the slightest idea who or what you mean by 'high-functioning demitrolls' but it doesn't sound very empathic, or tolerant.

There are many threads on this forum dedicated to saying, there's nothing wrong with us, we're just a bit different. Likewise you will find many individuals whose life is a struggle. The very real difficulties that come with AS are not something that's a matter of 'belief'.

Individuals are of course free to believe what they choose to believe (including things that are patently not the case), in particular the beliefs you hold about yourself. Your written account displays many AS traits but that is no substitute for a diagnosis.

For one that strives for precision in your writing, this seems decidedly un-precise. Those assessments are what they are and denial of their results is a form of confirmation bias. I would go further and suggest that if you believe the tests assess you "too high" that they are actually showing a lower value for you since you seem to be predisposed to reject the diagnosis and so would tend to answer the questions in a manner that biases the results with a negative slant.



Asperger's is by DEFINITION a disorder. Those that suggest that it isn't are injecting personal feelings into a clinical definition. You should be looking at thr Broader Autisic Phenotype if you are looking for a category for those with autistic traits but lacking in impairments.



Your quip about autistic demitrolls suggests a lack of empathy. It also demonstrates a level of directness very typical of people with Asperger's.

There is also a theory in autistic research that autisitcs have a deficit in cognitive empathy but not affective empathy.



Hyperlexia is common but not pervasive among autistics. I don't know the percentage of hyperlexics that are also autistic.

The following is a clarification for what I call 'demitrolls'.

AS is not something demitrolls are probably diagnosed with. Most people online call them 'trolls' but I think they are still human and make mistakes like those. I also know that there is no substitute for a proper diagnosis by a good specialist, although you should note that my counselor I have consulted with for five years has already suggested at least a mild form of AS without formal diagnosis. Is it possible to do a diagnosis via electronic correspondence? I would think that a real world meeting would be more fitting, but I am a minor and this must be considered because I do not think my parents would allow things like that to happen. After all, being naive can be a disadvantage in the real world

(rewrite: more casual than initial, simpler vocabulary, prepositions moved to ends of sentences in direct violation of grammatical rules, quotes rules ignored, everything diluted with apparent normals, punctuation follow incorrect quotation marks, accent marks excluded where necessary, most unmentioned errors likely intentional)

As an additional question, is it normal for those diagnosed with Asperger's to have shut downs in place of meltdowns? I can not recall any incident of throwing such tantrums, or at least not in the last seven years or so.

Man, you sound far more formal and pedantic than most users here. Your language definitely seems to suggest you have something within the ASD spectrum.

btw, this part, "if such is acceptable by the rules", made me laugh. It sounds excessively rule-bound and naive (Both are characteristic of Aspergers).

After some more study on forum behavior and associated emotions, the average neurotypical would likely respond with the following emoticons in order of probability:
, , or
Rest assured, however, that my reaction is this:

From the preceding data, approximately where on any spectrum do I belong? It becomes apparent that should the unofficial diagnosis by the counselor be true, then the factor of pedantry would likely raise the diagnosis by a step or two, considering the general reaction of those who write here. I am still unsure about the empathy factor. Although the DSM-IV criteria are met and slightly exceeded (by one or two criteria, if I recall correctly), I do not know what constitutes a typical amount of empathy in the AS individual. Also, is it true that an intuitive understanding social dynamics can be obtained from social experience? I think sorry [sic: explained later] for those who are turned by the initial post, and will not mind moving it to the blog if necessary.

I believe that the DSM-IV was not very thorough in its handling of Asperger's Disorder, despite my protest to its status as a disorder. The statement regarding, "...severe and sustained impairment in social interaction..." (80). seems to be contradicted by reports of the neutralization of the mentioned symptoms in later life. I realize that this can be interpreted as was probably intended, in that social interaction would be neither as flawless nor intuitive as it would be to a neurotypical. Concerning the pattern of interest, my long-term interest has been biochemistry, preceded by phases leading to it. This started in fourth grade during the time when the local library had a bookshelf filled with unwanted books, one of which was the inevitable chemistry textbook. However, the trend during the last few years has been that I will dedicate large amounts of free time for weeks for special interests ranging from constructed language creation (in hindsight, a very poor choice, but one which led to less pedantries and the elimination of many unsuitable majors) to the fundamentals of astrophysics as given by a gaming book titled GURPS (R) 4th Edition Space. I assume, of course, that the, "friend," meant no harm in presenting such a well-planned book with massive -log(Distraction) and reason for spending three hours learning about sarcasm. Returning to the subject of restricted patterns of interest, this would often lead to my sibling stating that a sibling of one of her friends greeted me with no response, which I now note as a significant challenge for the future.

The next set of problems with which I will deal relates to my understanding of social conventions. Regarding the clinical significance of this, I do not feel as though it is significant, although others generally do. My lack of social understanding was not noticed until entrance into school outside of home. It was never been easy to start eye contact, but recently, it became apparent that not maintaining it for more than a few seconds led to paranoia and facies related to unhappiness or dissatisfaction. Others had also noticed that when I spoke, the only moving parts were my lips and jaw, which I mitigated by simple hand motions based on patterns of response. Body language, however, seems to still be an issue as others have described me as always looking disinterested, even when my favorite subjects were discussed. This will definitely have to be treated at some point, although body language seems to be subject to excessive variation and will be more difficult. On the subject of developmental delays, I think I functioned at a level close enough to normal, although it should be noted that to oneself, everything about oneself is normal in the same way that the number 76.10097 is exactly equal to itself in every possible way except location on the temporal axis, of which we need not mention another word. Also, the alignment of the diagnoses for the other disorders or schizophrenia do not match any more than they probably should for neurotypicals relative to the conditions in question. In the event that it does become significant, I subvoluntarily (not involuntarily, as I do have some choice) treat computers which I cognitively understand to be unthinking in the literal sense as sentient in the same way animals can be described as sentient, although definitely not sapient or conscious. No matter how much of a mental fiat I impose on showing my work to others, all instances have failed due to the lack of a sense of necessity to do so.

To elaborate slightly on the component of social skill, I can fake expressions of interest when I see fit to do so, but this seems to attract more attention than subtly altering minor details or excluding facial expression from the list of considerations. I still find myself with the younger individuals described primarily because I experience the least anxiety when I am alone. This is interrupted by spells of desire for, "normal," conversationalism (of which you are observing), but the general tendency has been toward self-isolation. As I now realize, I spoke in a mild monotone prior to studying scansion, stress, and intonation for the tragic Latin exam, and this was apparently disliked by practically everyone. Currently, I am unsure about whether my current gait, which was done primarily for speed and stealth, adds or subtracts from the likely poor rapport. I tend to make extra efforts to avoid approaching anyone because of this, as I never managed to build a good interest in self-defense arts. I do not know of any diagnosed individuals with AS, although statistics indicate that there should be at least three others or so in my grade level.

To present some more information about the level of empathy during calamities, I know about the basic concept of empathy and how it generally manifests itself, but I frequently find myself not expressing it due to a certain anxiety to regulate the non-verbal cues as well as possible. Could it be that AS individuals are simply more susceptible to the bystander effect? I find that given enough of a pause following the observation of a situation demanding empathy in hindsight, I can overcome the initial confusion, although it has been said that I simply seem to, "phase out," during these stressful times, which indicates that some appropriate non-verbal cues have been left undone. The starting response, after a few seconds of confusion, seems to be that I should feel sorry, but this already explains the thinking sorry mentioned earlier. After a small amount of thought, I find that I would have been able to assist the subject in question had no one else helped before.

Regarding the plausible physical symptoms, I find that I lack the visual-motor coordination most seem to have, although it should be noted that one eye is mildly astigmatic while the other is spherically near-sighted, if both are the proper terms. I never had much endurance as well, so physical education was torture while it lasted. Some have said that I, "...do something with my left wrist and right hand," although I do not know of what they speak, considering their reputation for being woefully incompetent in their vocabularies and grammar (to such an extent that if I was angry during a proof-reading session, the pulse in the wrist would likely be visible). As for hyperactivity, I have always found myself erring on the side of being too quiet and detached, although the hyperfocus associated with my studies may indicate the inattentive form.

Again, I understand that an internet forum, as should be obvious, will never replace a good specialist (note that it could replace the, "quack." claiming I had low levels of, "Positive Energy." What manner of nonsense will he muster before receiving a special award from the government for his efforts?). If I might add this, 400 hours of research does not come close to inordinate. The new trend of checking facebook [sic] for less hours is more inordinate than a mere 400 hours. This is the primary reason for why I question the plausible diagnosis. My final questions are these: is there no textbook-style guide on commonly accepted social conventions? Or must I learn by experience?

Actual final question: should this post be deleted and moved to the blog out of respect for viewers' screens?





I think an apology is in order for this disorganized post and the errors on the previous post, although it seems as though, "Errare humanum est," also means, "Errare humanum facet." This post contains such verbiage because it is, after all, an attempt to at least make sure that whether the formal diagnosis indicates a positive or negative, it is plausible within the context of the community of which we are members (with some members, including but hopefully not limited to me, being regarded as lesser members because of being lesser contributors).

"If I have sounded needlessly formal, casual, terse, or verbose, please tell me as soon as possible."

I'm far from sure whether you mean what you say in your signature (apart from the super human bit) but yes, you have sounded needlessly verbose in your most recent, and a couple of other, posts. But I think you know this already.

I find it difficult where to start with a response. If I were to respond in any detail then my post would end up being as overlong and, frankly, flattening, as yours.

Overlong posts of this nature actually hinder communication.

I've not posted much on WP although I've been a member for some time and spent a lot of time just reading posts. So I think I am in a position to tell you that there are no 'lesser' members on WP. People are generally very kind and tolerant on this forum. The reason being that by its very nature AS is slightly different for every single person who has it. It makes for a broad church, as it were.

This does not mean AS is a subjective attitude. As wavefreak and others have kindly confirmed AS is a disorder with an objective and verifiable diagnosis.

Where you might find tolerance on the forum wearing a bit thin is if you ask people for advice, which is then given to you in good faith, but you then don't seem to like it when you get it.

Yes you know long words, and a lot of them, and you clearly revel in your baroque syntax, but worryingly, you seem to derive some kind of superiority over others from this. While not actually being all that easy to understand, and a long way from being clear.

A purely electronic/online diagnosis is not possible. you have obviously tried to diagnose yourself, and people here have added to that. You seem, however, determined to disbelieve what you are told. I suspect you will find it difficult to make true progress until you stop wrapping yourself up in layers and layers of words.

You can read about social etiquette in books (even NTs do this if their upbringing wasn't up to much and they realise their behaviour is meeting with disapproval) but the actual learning takes place in actual, real life (and real time) interaction.

You have indicated you are minor, and I would say, things will get better eventually. You are in counselling so you are getting some support at the moment. Perhaps you could ask your counsellor whether to include the teaching of life skills into your programme, rather than endlessly debating as to whether you have AS/ are on the BAP or not. Good luck.

I almost never melt down, but regularly shut down.

I would suggest you research another question.

Why do you so assiduously resist the Asperger's diagnosis? What internal dynamics keep your mind from resonating with something that appears from your descriptions to be rather obvious.

We are autistic. We specialize in this.