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Hexagon
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29 Feb 2012, 2:47 pm

I get so frustrated with this question.

Like, I simply want a tiny bit of knowledge, such as when my dad is coming back, and whether my brother will be with him or not, and he has to ask why, like its a crime against humanity. He knows I like to know whats happening in any given situation, and yet he still makes me feel crazy for asking.

Or I want to know why the Earth doesn't go straight towards the sun instead of orbiting (I do know that btw). Or why you can't travel faster than light. Or whether god exists or not. The reason I want to know is because I want to know. Knowledge is important to me. And when I ask why you can't travel faster than light, there is only one possible reason why I want to know. Its obvious there is currently no practical use for the knowledge, so even if everyone is as curious about the intention behind knowledge acquisition as I am about any given scientific or philosophical subject, it is still unnecessary to ask.

Why is it that NTs have to know why knowledge should be obtained when there is an obvious reason? I usually just answer with 'Because I like knowing'.



Cogs
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29 Feb 2012, 3:21 pm

Im curious, Im the opposite of you, I get frustrated with many questions because I dont like talking and their questions seem unnecessary. I can totally identify with the NTs you describe, except I dont ask why they want to know, I get frustrated because I believe they dont need to know and their questions take much effort to answer. Whether or not I think they need to know depends on whether knowing the answer will change anything.

So is your main reason for wanting to know things like when your dads returning and whether your brother is with him that you like to have as much knowledge as possible of what is happening, like you want more certainty? Is there anything people could do to reduce your need to ask such questions?



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29 Feb 2012, 5:28 pm

Hexagon wrote:
Or why you can't travel faster than light.


what makes you think you can't? other than we can't travel faster than the speed of light or it will rip itself apart, last time I looked the concordes cockpit looks nutz when it hits max speed. Wasn't they something about wormholes been exploited?

Hexagon wrote:
Or whether god exists or not.


8 ball says ask again later.
Hexagon wrote:
Earth doesn't go straight towards the sun


because we would be screwed? been sarcastic

Heres a question, do they know the answers to the other questions?



Last edited by TechnoDog on 29 Feb 2012, 6:12 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Janissy
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29 Feb 2012, 5:38 pm

Hexagon wrote:
Why is it that NTs have to know why knowledge should be obtained when there is an obvious reason? I usually just answer with 'Because I like knowing'.


There are 2 frequent reasons why they (we) ask this question (I am NT):

1)To find out your particular agenda (if there is one) behind asking the question. Once they know the agenda, they can give expanded information. Wondering why you want to know when your dad is coming back is in this category. "When is dad coming back?" is the sort of question people ask when they are making plans or trying to keep to a schedule. Those plans or schedule would be your agenda for asking.

2)If you are asking purely out of curiosity, people are equally curious about the backstory to the question. "Why doesn't the earth go straight towards the sun instead instead of orbiting" is in this category. People get curious about the story behind how you got curious. Did you see a disaster movie where the earth fell into the sun? Did you witness some natural phenomena that made you wonder?

After 3 years on WP, I realize that Aspies frequently ask questions with literally no agenda and with no backstory other than information acquisition. But since this isn't the case for NTs, you will often get this question since NTs generally have either an agenda (such as wanting to watch a movie with dad when he gets home) or a backstory (such as watching a disaster movie that broke the laws of physics).



AllenVincent
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29 Feb 2012, 5:44 pm

I've come across the "why do you want to know?" a few times and my usual response is "Why shouldn't I know?" there's usually a pause and then I'm given the answer to my original question. Don't be afraid to push for answers or to argue your case if you can.



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29 Feb 2012, 5:52 pm

Heh, I'm lucky enough that no one's ever said this to me, but I agree, it's weird! Do people need an alterior motive to be curious, and want to learn something? Apparently so?! :?



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29 Feb 2012, 6:00 pm

Janissy wrote:
But since this isn't the case for NTs, you will often get this question since NTs generally have either an agenda (such as wanting to watch a movie with dad when he gets home) or a backstory (such as watching a disaster movie that broke the laws of physics).


Wow this is news to me. I didnt realise that most questions could be more than just for information acquistion. Do emotional needs come under the agenda category like when people ask questions or tell you stuff because they want sympathy or something?



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29 Feb 2012, 6:09 pm

Cogs....... I think it's more to do with ignorance..... I.e Why on EARTH would you want or need to know that? Sometimes perhaps the NT is concerned at possible ulterior motives but predominately it would be sheer ignorance. I used to tolerate ignorance but of late...... the sheer scale of it........ I just want to censor their heads against the censor and then censor... take my hearing aid out...... whilst they are censor....... then say "sorry I don't understand what you are saying" or "why do you want to know? :twisted:



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29 Feb 2012, 6:33 pm

AllenVincent wrote:
Cogs....... I think it's more to do with ignorance..... I.e Why on EARTH would you want or need to know that? Sometimes perhaps the NT is concerned at possible ulterior motives but predominately it would be sheer ignorance. I used to tolerate ignorance but of late...... the sheer scale of it........ I just want to censor their heads against the censor and then censor... take my hearing aid out...... whilst they are censor....... then say "sorry I don't understand what you are saying" or "why do you want to know? :twisted:


Do you mean like the NT cant see why the Aspie wants info and resists giving info until they understand why info is needed but cant actually understand why info is needed?

Sorry if im being a nuisence I really want to understand this and am pretty confused at the moment.



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29 Feb 2012, 6:33 pm

Cogs wrote:
Janissy wrote:
But since this isn't the case for NTs, you will often get this question since NTs generally have either an agenda (such as wanting to watch a movie with dad when he gets home) or a backstory (such as watching a disaster movie that broke the laws of physics).


Wow this is news to me. I didnt realise that most questions could be more than just for information acquistion. Do emotional needs come under the agenda category like when people ask questions or tell you stuff because they want sympathy or something?


Yes, emotional needs definately come under the agenda category. From what I gather on WP, this causes numerous misunderstandings between AS and NT people. The NT person will ask a question with an emotional need as the agenda and the AS person will answer with pure information that doesn't address that emotional need. Then the NT person feels hurt and the AS person writes a baffled post on here wondering what the heck went wrong.

Conversely, the AS person will ask a question for pure information acquisition and the NT person will attempt to guess at an emotional agenda (when there isn't one) and then will attempt to address that assumed emotional need and then things go terribly wrong since of course they guessed wrong (since it was just a question for information). In the aftermath of that, the AS person will post on here wondering why people won't just answer the question that was asked instead of trying to answer a different question from an incorrectly guessed agenda.

As an NT, this was all news to me when I came to WP. But after reading many such posts, I can see it is a huge source of misunderstanding between NT and AS people. NT people rarely ask a question purely to add information to the mental database and AS people often do. This difference has led to much confusion and sometimes hurt feelings on both sides.



Hexagon
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29 Feb 2012, 6:35 pm

AllenVincent wrote:
"Why shouldn't I know?"


I may steal that, unless its copyrighted. It sounds better than my one. I figure if I only say that in response to the question, people will stop asking it.



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29 Feb 2012, 6:38 pm

Hexagon wrote:
I get so frustrated with this question.

Like, I simply want a tiny bit of knowledge, such as when my dad is coming back, and whether my brother will be with him or not, and he has to ask why, like its a crime against humanity.

NTs are much better at this than Aspies. When anyone asks a question they are revealing themselves. For example when you ask your question a NT might sense that you are actually saying, "I hope Dad comes home soon and brings my brother." But we may not be in touch with those feelings, and so ask in our, "Im just seeking info" mode. They may want us to comprehend that we actually are saying this to them.


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29 Feb 2012, 6:45 pm

Cogs wrote:
AllenVincent wrote:
Cogs....... I think it's more to do with ignorance..... I.e Why on EARTH would you want or need to know that? Sometimes perhaps the NT is concerned at possible ulterior motives but predominately it would be sheer ignorance. I used to tolerate ignorance but of late...... the sheer scale of it........ I just want to censor their heads against the censor and then censor... take my hearing aid out...... whilst they are censor....... then say "sorry I don't understand what you are saying" or "why do you want to know? :twisted:


Do you mean like the NT cant see why the Aspie wants info and resists giving info until they understand why info is needed but cant actually understand why info is needed?

Sorry if im being a nuisence I really want to understand this and am pretty confused at the moment.



Yes. They (we) resist giving info until understanding why the info is needed. For many questions, the reason for needing the info is obvious. If you ask what time it is, nobody will wonder why you want to know. But for more involved questions, people will assume a motivation beyond pure information acquisition. Even NT scientists who spend their lives in the pursuit of pure knowledge still have a backstory and a motivation for why some particular slice of knowledge captivated them, sometimes an incident in childhood that led them to wonder a particular thing. This is why NTs tell the story of Isaac Newton sitting under an apple tree and being hit on the head with an apple. It's probably an apocryphal story and he was probably an Aspie but for NTs it is the perfect backstory to explain why he pursued the questions that he did.



Hexagon
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29 Feb 2012, 6:48 pm

tall-p wrote:
Hexagon wrote:
I get so frustrated with this question.

Like, I simply want a tiny bit of knowledge, such as when my dad is coming back, and whether my brother will be with him or not, and he has to ask why, like its a crime against humanity.

NTs are much better at this than Aspies. When anyone asks a question they are revealing themselves. For example when you ask your question a NT might sense that you are actually saying, "I hope Dad comes home soon and brings my brother." But we may not be in touch with those feelings, and so ask in our, "Im just seeking info" mode. They may want us to comprehend that we actually are saying this to them.


But I don't want them to come back soon. I want to know when they are coming back, which is what I asked. I jump every time someone comes in the door and I'm not expecting it, so I like to know when I expect it. And I get confused if I don't know whats happening. So I ask, and someone thinks I want something I'm not saying. But although I don't always say when I want something, I do say it when I expect to get help getting it from the person I'm saying it to. I'm not so good at dropping hints.

Even NT scientists who spend their lives in the pursuit of pure knowledge still have a backstory and a motivation for why some particular slice of knowledge captivated them, sometimes an incident in childhood that led them to wonder a particular thing. This is why NTs tell the story of Isaac Newton sitting under an apple tree and being hit on the head with an apple. It's probably an apocryphal story and he was probably an Aspie but for NTs it is the perfect backstory to explain why he pursued the questions that he did.

Ah, I never realised this. I'm interested in science, but there is no particular reason why I became interested in astrophysics/cosmology. Other than it was interesting. I was also very confused about why they kept on telling the story about the apple after I'd been told it probably hadn't happened.



Last edited by Hexagon on 29 Feb 2012, 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Kyra71
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29 Feb 2012, 6:48 pm

Janissy wrote:
Yes, emotional needs definately come under the agenda category. From what I gather on WP, this causes numerous misunderstandings between AS and NT people. The NT person will ask a question with an emotional need as the agenda and the AS person will answer with pure information that doesn't address that emotional need. Then the NT person feels hurt and the AS person writes a baffled post on here wondering what the heck went wrong.

Conversely, the AS person will ask a question for pure information acquisition and the NT person will attempt to guess at an emotional agenda (when there isn't one) and then will attempt to address that assumed emotional need and then things go terribly wrong since of course they guessed wrong (since it was just a question for information). In the aftermath of that, the AS person will post on here wondering why people won't just answer the question that was asked instead of trying to answer a different question from an incorrectly guessed agenda.

As an NT, this was all news to me when I came to WP. But after reading many such posts, I can see it is a huge source of misunderstanding between NT and AS people. NT people rarely ask a question purely to add information to the mental database and AS people often do. This difference has led to much confusion and sometimes hurt feelings on both sides.


Thanks for writing that - it explains a lot to me! I know my own motives are generally very direct. What you're describing sounds almost like why I'm so bad at chess... I can't think two moves ahead, and I wouldn't even know how to ask a question that had an ulterior motive.

If I ask something, it's because I just want a simple answer to my question. If I'm having an emotional issue, I'll just say I'm having an emotional issue, in a very direct way, rather than trying to beat around the bush and ask a sneaky, semi-related question that makes you try to guess what I really mean. Gah, just thinking about trying to communicate like that confuses me! :D



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29 Feb 2012, 6:55 pm

Your curiosity as nothing to do with be a aspie rather that a NT, it's because you're smart. Smart NTs tend to be preocuppied by the same kind of questions and have the same thirst of knowledge.


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