Adults with Aspergers Seem 'Normal' to Me

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NarcissusSavage
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29 Apr 2012, 7:57 am

nessa238 wrote:
RLgnome wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
I'm not surprised that you've convinced yourself you're unable to remember to do the shopping without the input of another person - you could probably convince yourself you're actually an alien from another planet if you tried hard enough - go on, give it a go - it'll be amusing if nothing else!


And you accuse others of patronizing you, and not taking you seriously?

Get down from your pedestal. You don't come across as any more intelligent than the rest here. You also don't come across as very knowledgeable, despite your own thinking so. You use the classic technique of shutting down every opponent by saying you're just trying to have an intelligent debate, which implies that everyone who disagrees with you is less intelligent and/or unreasonable. From your argument, they're also lazy liars (or at least they seduced themselves into thinking they have problems you deny exist). You seem to have read the diagnostic manuals, and some psychiatry-hostile literature, while not really knowing much about autism other than the social factors. Despite overwhelming evidence and clinical experience, you've decided to view other factors as "not trying hard enough" or "making up problems". And then you accuse people for going against evidence, when they point out that social dysfunction is not the *predominant* factor, because you don't understand the word "predominant". It is *characterized* by (among other things) social dysfunction, but the other factors are equal (or sometimes bigger) in extent, though not as visible. Diagnostic manuals are exactly what the term implies - manuals to help a professional make a *diagnosis*. Social dysfunction is often so visible it plays the biggest (but never the only) part in *diagnosis*. That doesn't mean social dysfunction always makes up the biggest part of that person's *challenges*. Other literature confirms that.

And to bring up one specific example, you make comparisons that proves your lack of knowledge of human neurology (note: I'm just a simple technology student, but at least I'm not trying to revolutionize autism research by claiming the knowledge acquired the last few decades is wrong). You asked someone who's not always able to leave his/her house to buy food, whether they'd flee if the house was on fire. The basic fact that those are two situations interpreted totally differently by the brain, was beyond you. A fire causes an adrenaline reaction, which activates other instinct than mere hunger. By the time anything similar happens from hunger, you're almost too weak to move. Those behaviors are even managed by different areas in the brain. You also wasn't aware that some people (not necessarily autistic people, either) freeze in those situations. Do you think freezing is because they're not trying hard enough, too?

But unless I lost something, you didn't bother to answer that rebuttal. Instead, you chose other ways to blame your opponents of being less intelligent and/or hostile. That's yet another dirty debate technique; ignore arguments you know are better than yours, keep claiming you're right, and find other quotes to prove your points. Or just stop arguing all together, and just repeat your own points, claiming you're the intelligent part of the discussion.

Try to read something as basic as Tony Attwood's The Complete Guide to Asperger Syndrome. Then come back and tell us his decades-long experience with autism (and therefore also executive dysfunction) is wrong, because you solved your own problems by trying harder.

Oh, and sorry if I'm coming along a bit harsh. I'm getting tired of reading your recycled arguments, even after people have proved them wrong. You've said you think it's in our heads (which, ironically it is, but in quite another sense), and if you think that, nothing we say will convince you. Your position is noted, there's no point in repeating it over and over again. Note that I'm not trying to shut you down - if you come up with anything actually new, by all means post it.


Try reading my replies as well

I read Tony Attwood's book years ago - Newsflash - he's made an excellent career out of patronising you all! Try getting a job in the same department of whatever organisation he works in, as an autistic person - good luck with that!

I wonder in fact how many autistic people (in paid employment) he works alongside full stop? I can guarantee not many!

These 'autism gurus' have several common attributes:-

1. They never have autism themselves
2. They make an exceedingly nice profit from books and on the lecture circuit
3. An autistic person will never achieve the same status or level of success as them
due to the very fact that the whole autism industry, while based on autistic people, is inherently biased against them ie they want to talk about you to other NTs but not actually to you

Discuss!


Totally random, but it just occurred to me I think I know what's going on here.

You were misdiagnosed. You are not autistic, you are schizophrenic. You should consult a professional about that; there is some promising work and therapies available for that disorder. I think it can even be partially or completely medicinally treated.


The misplaced hostility, the paranoid thought patterns, mixing up the order and causality of events, misplacing or interweaving multiples people’s posts as having the same hive mind thinking, lack of understanding of the mind of another.

Schizophrenia is sometimes mixed up with autism, as some of the symptoms can present in similar ways, and to a not so awesome mental health professional...well, you know, mistakes happen.

Maybe you could look into it and its related disorders and consult someone for a reevaluation; it might help you out more than a misdiagnosis of autism ever could.



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29 Apr 2012, 8:02 am

nessa238 wrote:
Try reading my replies as well

I read Tony Attwood's book years ago - Newsflash - he's made an excellent career out of patronising you all! Try getting a job in the same department of whatever organisation he works in, as an autistic person - good luck with that!

I wonder in fact how many autistic people (in paid employment) he works alongside full stop? I can guarantee not many!

These 'autism gurus' have several common attributes:-

1. They never have autism themselves
2. They make an exceedingly nice profit from books and on the lecture circuit
3. An autistic person will never achieve the same status or level of success as them
due to the very fact that the whole autism industry, while based on autistic people, is inherently biased against them ie they want to talk about you to other NTs but not actually to you

Discuss!


This is not controversial. It is in fact a common criticism of the autism community by the autistic community. A friend of mine who is a member of ASAN is actually working to improve this situation locally to him, in terms of improving how autism and autistic people are dealt with, and it's been frustrating work for him. I am sure many members of ASAN are working at this. And it is something that has been brought up repeatedly by multiple bloggers and authors.

This doesn't really mean that anything Tony Attwood has written is specifically incorrect (although the fact that some of the things he has written really are incorrect achieves that already), it does reflect something that is all too true about autism research and the autism community.

There is some change, although it varies. Michelle Dawson has worked with Dr. Laurent Mottron, and contributed to several of his research papers (wikipedia says he estimates she contributes approximately 20%).

I am not sure who I'd recommend for you to read. I would have to assume you're engaging in good faith, which at this point is a nigh-insurmountable barrier for me. Much more difficult than shopping for food.



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29 Apr 2012, 8:33 am

nessa238 wrote:
Try reading my replies as well


I have. Diligently. But I'm starting to suspect you don't read your own replies.

Quote:
I read Tony Attwood's book years ago - Newsflash - he's made an excellent career out of patronising you all! Try getting a job in the same department of whatever organisation he works in, as an autistic person - good luck with that!


Unless you're point to something he's been saying to media (I'm not Internet stalking the guy), or he's suddenly changed his attitude, your definition of "to patronize" is to acknowledge someone has problems. His books are respectful and show great care for his patients, and he's one of the few specialists I've seen that makes a priority out of quoting autistic people instead of just flagging his own theories without bothering what the patients would have to say.

I'm aware you think you're not having problems of any kind. I'm aware you think you've seen the 'light'. And the rest of us are stupid or not intelligent not to see it. It could be you're right about your own problems. Or you could be in denial (I prefer not to make assumptions like that, but your aggressiveness has made the thought occur to me), and that will backfire sooner or later. But that's none of my concern. Your consistently condescending and patronizing tone against people with AS, however, *is* my concern.

Quote:
I wonder in fact how many autistic people (in paid employment) he works alongside full stop? I can guarantee not many!


I don't make speculations like that. Feel free to e-mail him and ask. At least he lets autistic people have a say in his book. Would you let anyone of us have our say in your book?

Quote:
These 'autism gurus' have several common attributes:-

1. They never have autism themselves


Some of the most widely quoted 'autism gurus' have autism. They may not be therapists, but they're most definitely in the 'curriculum' of basic literature on autism. Temple Grandin and Liane Holliday Willey are two prime examples.

Quote:
2. They make an exceedingly nice profit from books and on the lecture circuit


So what? They would've made more money if they focused on more 'high prestige' areas. Most of them are very talented people, and chose to work in this field for a reason. They would probably have made money in any area. I'm glad to have people like that fighting my case.

Quote:
3. An autistic person will never achieve the same status or level of success as them
due to the very fact that the whole autism industry, while based on autistic people, is inherently biased against them ie they want to talk about you to other NTs but not actually to you


Paranoid nonsense. There is no 'autism industry', at least I've never seen one. There are plenty of diagnoses society would rather have an increase of, since autism is expensive, difficult to relate to, and can't be written off as hopeless cases, since even severely autistic children often are annoyingly talented (yes, yes, I'm aware that's not always the case, that's why i used the word 'often' - often compared to other severe disabilities). With things like ADHD, a pill will resolve most of the problems in a huge majority of cases. That's cheap, and easier to relate to.

For this exact reason, many of us are constantly fighting to get the support we *need*, because we meet this attitude every week. "Try harder!" "Try being independent for once!" "Many people share your problems, you just have a slightly different thinking style!"

That attitude kills people, or at least makes them severely depressed. And it's not new. You're not revolutionary. You're recycling old, and very common, prejudice.

Apparently you want to be banned to prove your own 'point'. Newsflash: That's a common symptom of an Internet troll. And I'm losing my dinner appointment. RLgnome out.



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29 Apr 2012, 9:05 am

NarcissusSavage wrote:
Totally random, but it just occurred to me I think I know what's going on here.

You were misdiagnosed. You are not autistic, you are schizophrenic. You should consult a professional about that; there is some promising work and therapies available for that disorder. I think it can even be partially or completely medicinally treated.


The misplaced hostility, the paranoid thought patterns, mixing up the order and causality of events, misplacing or interweaving multiples people’s posts as having the same hive mind thinking, lack of understanding of the mind of another.

Schizophrenia is sometimes mixed up with autism, as some of the symptoms can present in similar ways, and to a not so awesome mental health professional...well, you know, mistakes happen.

Maybe you could look into it and its related disorders and consult someone for a reevaluation; it might help you out more than a misdiagnosis of autism ever could.


LOL!

That's given me the best laugh of the day!

Why on earth would I unburden myself with one diagnosis to then saddle myself with another that is even more spurious than the first??

Unlike you, I want to live my life authentically as ME, not some textbook-designated version of me!

You might need to use Aspergers as some kind of mental crutch to explain and excuse your difficulties but I'll stand or fall by my own efforts thanks very much!



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29 Apr 2012, 9:13 am

RLgnome wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
Try reading my replies as well


I have. Diligently. But I'm starting to suspect you don't read your own replies.

Quote:
I read Tony Attwood's book years ago - Newsflash - he's made an excellent career out of patronising you all! Try getting a job in the same department of whatever organisation he works in, as an autistic person - good luck with that!


Unless you're point to something he's been saying to media (I'm not Internet stalking the guy), or he's suddenly changed his attitude, your definition of "to patronize" is to acknowledge someone has problems. His books are respectful and show great care for his patients, and he's one of the few specialists I've seen that makes a priority out of quoting autistic people instead of just flagging his own theories without bothering what the patients would have to say.

I'm aware you think you're not having problems of any kind. I'm aware you think you've seen the 'light'. And the rest of us are stupid or not intelligent not to see it. It could be you're right about your own problems. Or you could be in denial (I prefer not to make assumptions like that, but your aggressiveness has made the thought occur to me), and that will backfire sooner or later. But that's none of my concern. Your consistently condescending and patronizing tone against people with AS, however, *is* my concern.

Quote:
I wonder in fact how many autistic people (in paid employment) he works alongside full stop? I can guarantee not many!


I don't make speculations like that. Feel free to e-mail him and ask. At least he lets autistic people have a say in his book. Would you let anyone of us have our say in your book?

Quote:
These 'autism gurus' have several common attributes:-

1. They never have autism themselves


Some of the most widely quoted 'autism gurus' have autism. They may not be therapists, but they're most definitely in the 'curriculum' of basic literature on autism. Temple Grandin and Liane Holliday Willey are two prime examples.

Quote:
2. They make an exceedingly nice profit from books and on the lecture circuit


So what? They would've made more money if they focused on more 'high prestige' areas. Most of them are very talented people, and chose to work in this field for a reason. They would probably have made money in any area. I'm glad to have people like that fighting my case.

Quote:
3. An autistic person will never achieve the same status or level of success as them
due to the very fact that the whole autism industry, while based on autistic people, is inherently biased against them ie they want to talk about you to other NTs but not actually to you


Paranoid nonsense. There is no 'autism industry', at least I've never seen one. There are plenty of diagnoses society would rather have an increase of, since autism is expensive, difficult to relate to, and can't be written off as hopeless cases, since even severely autistic children often are annoyingly talented (yes, yes, I'm aware that's not always the case, that's why i used the word 'often' - often compared to other severe disabilities). With things like ADHD, a pill will resolve most of the problems in a huge majority of cases. That's cheap, and easier to relate to.

For this exact reason, many of us are constantly fighting to get the support we *need*, because we meet this attitude every week. "Try harder!" "Try being independent for once!" "Many people share your problems, you just have a slightly different thinking style!"

That attitude kills people, or at least makes them severely depressed. And it's not new. You're not revolutionary. You're recycling old, and very common, prejudice.

Apparently you want to be banned to prove your own 'point'. Newsflash: That's a common symptom of an Internet troll. And I'm losing my dinner appointment. RLgnome out.


Quote of the day:-

"With things like ADHD, a pill will resolve most of the problems in a huge majority of cases."

:roll:



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29 Apr 2012, 9:16 am

nessa238 wrote:
NarcissusSavage wrote:
Totally random, but it just occurred to me I think I know what's going on here.

You were misdiagnosed. You are not autistic, you are schizophrenic. You should consult a professional about that; there is some promising work and therapies available for that disorder. I think it can even be partially or completely medicinally treated.


The misplaced hostility, the paranoid thought patterns, mixing up the order and causality of events, misplacing or interweaving multiples people’s posts as having the same hive mind thinking, lack of understanding of the mind of another.

Schizophrenia is sometimes mixed up with autism, as some of the symptoms can present in similar ways, and to a not so awesome mental health professional...well, you know, mistakes happen.

Maybe you could look into it and its related disorders and consult someone for a reevaluation; it might help you out more than a misdiagnosis of autism ever could.


LOL!

That's given me the best laugh of the day!

Why on earth would I unburden myself with one diagnosis to then saddle myself with another that is even more spurious than the first??

Unlike you, I want to live my life authentically as ME, not some textbook-designated version of me!

You might need to use Aspergers as some kind of mental crutch to explain and excuse your difficulties but I'll stand or fall by my own efforts thanks very much!


I don't have Aspergers. So don't use it as a crutch, for lack of having it.

I do have HFA, which is rather similar. I do not use it as a crutch though, but I do allow it to be a roadmap to improving myself, sort of a guide. When I identify something about myself I wish to improve, I often have additional resources to use to achieve success in my goals. Because I am certainly not the first person with HFA, I have others with similar difficulties to my own to consult. Health professionals with working knowledge to turn to. People who know where I am coming from to consort with.

I choose to use my diagnosis as another tool in my kit towards personal growth. And the only reason I recommend you get an accurate diagnosis is so that you have the right tool for the job on your own journey of personal growth. If that doesn't seem like a good idea to you, by all means, disregard my suggestion.



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29 Apr 2012, 10:35 am

nessa238 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
These sorts of threads always end up in arguments then getting locked. Some people seem to think that there is no difference between severe Autism and mild AS because severe traits can overlap mild traits and that every Autistic person is different, which is very true, but again there's an answer we will never find.


Why do you consistently misrepresent what people are saying when you comment in threads like this? No one has said that there is no difference between severe autism and mild AS. I do not recall this ever having been said since I've joined this forum, but every time the topic comes up you make this claim.


Hmm so when the Asperger's Diagnosis disappears, how are thy going to preceisely differentiate the very specific differences between severe autism and mild Aspergers when they've only got three sub-categories of severity within the Autism Spectrum Disorder category:-

http://www.dsm5.org/ProposedRevision/Pa ... px?rid=94#

Level 1 - Requiring Support

Level 2 - Requiring Substantial Support

Level 3 - Requiring Very Substantial Support

Which level of support do people consider themselves as needing?


The message in DSMV is self evident. If you have been diagnosed with AS in the past, but your symptoms are so mild that you require "no" support to function in NT society then you are deemed no longer on the ASD spectrum.

Honestly I can;t understand the logic of people who are desperate to get an official AS Dx when they turn around and claim they function quite well in NT society?

I anticipate many current AS Dx will say they require mental health services (i.e. counselling) to cope with stress. So the answer simply is they fall into Level 1. End of story.


Yes exactly

Which seems to make the whole discovery/invention of the AS diagnosis a waste of time in the first place as we're now back to square one with it ceasing to exist in the diagnostic manual!

When DSM V comes out, what if a person who thinks they might have the traits which might previously have been diagnosed as Aspergers going to be diagnosed with if their 'problems' aren't sufficient to need support? They won't be diagnosed with anything in my opinion and even if they are they will be pointed in the diection of, as you say, either mental health services and/or services being provided for people with Autism and these people will invariably also have a Learning Disability so the service won't be appropriate for a person with normal IQ ie the support needs will be of a completely different nature

I know one thing - the onus on councils/the NHS to provide any Asperger-specific support services will be zero! The DSM-V's getting rid of Aspergers as a diganosis will be an absolute gift to them in not having to provide anything but standard Autism/LD services!

A person will say "I have Aspergers, I need support" and they will reply "Er that diagnosis no longer exists; if you have Autism there's the Autism service (which will be predominantly for those with classic autism, with accompanying LD) which we only provide for people with a certain high level of need and your level of need isn't high enough so doesn't qualify for help' -I can see it coming a mile off!


People that are diagnosed with AS will simply be considered autistic by the DSM-5, and the autism spectrum will have different severity levels....so it can be anywhere from very severe, to mild and only causing mild impairments that still are diagnosable. If one does not have impairing symptoms why would they need a diagnoses in the first place?

Also if someone does have a diagnoses...I would think that would point to them having difficulties in functioning that they can't just 'overcome' hence the being diagnosed with a disorder.


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29 Apr 2012, 10:45 am

XFilesGeek wrote:
If you need support, you get DXed. If you currently don't need support, you don't get DXed.

If you have "issues" that MIGHT require you to need support in the future, you should work on those issues while postponing the DX until you actually need support.

What's wrong with working on social skills with your shrink? Is there something preventing people with no DX of autism from working on their social skills with their shrink? No. I don't see the value of slapping people with a diagnostic label who "might" need support at some undefined moment in time in the future.

Quote:
Thing is, support and dysfunction can be so many things, and not needing support from the public sector now, doesn't mean you won't need it in the future.


I didn't say "support" was limited to "government support."


Not everyone who 'needs' support has it, so what do you do with that....I mean luckily I am not totally alone in the world and have some friends and family who can help me, but if it was not for them I don't even know where I would be. But I cannot afford professional 'support' regardless of how much I do struggle with my symptoms and not just AS.....with the AS I've learned it is how my brain functions so I have to try to work with that.....not against it other then that my co-morbid disorders can be hell. If one has a consistant disorder, I would think it would actually be detrimental to just try to push through issues until there is no doubt about it that you need help....with some disorders the longer you post pone adressing it the worse it gets. That's what's happened with my depression, anxiety and PTSD.....as for the AS it was never identified when I was a child so it might not have gotten 'worse' but the differences it caused between me and most people seemed to bring on mis-treatment from other students and some teachers and I had to cope with feeling like I don't belong and the lonliness and pain it caused certainly took its toll.


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29 Apr 2012, 11:14 am

nessa238 wrote:

I'd say it's a perfectly intelligent observation that most people on this forum would tend to have a milder form of autism - they are seeking social interaction for a start; people with the more severe types of autism don't tend to seek or want any form of social interaction - that's their essential problem! So from the very fact of being here and actively wanting to communicate with others, a person has clearly demonstrated less severity to their autism in my opinion.

Well you can hardly speak for people with aspergers, let alone people with more severe autism...I don't feel very mild at all, yet I still desire social interaction that does not mean I struggle less with it nessisarily. Also, lets just say my grammer and typing here does not really reflect me having a verbal conversation....I am sure if we were discussing this in person it would be quite apparent to you that there must be something a bit off about me. If you are familier with what autism/aspergers looks like you might be able to tell I have that but people in general regardless of if they can tell I have autism/aspergers specifically can still tell there is something 'wrong' with me. I mean I got called ret*d a lot as a kid, yet my favorite activity was reading books and I liked learning about varous topics and other intelligent type activities....well clearly I was not ret*d if I was reading far above what was expected of people my age so it must have been the way I came off socially and I suppose kids at school think the term ret*d accounts for any difference of mental functioning hence why it was a common insult I dealt with.

A forum is group behaviour in action and group behaviour is anathema to autistic behaviour.
Ergo by taking part in a discussion forum a person is by definition being 'less autistic', as autism is a social communication disorder and they are demonstrating that they are less 'disordered' by seeking to communicate with others (which is NT-type behaviour/normal).

How does wishing to interact with people indicate less social communication difficulties exactly? But yeah I'd almost prefer not to desire social interaction then I would not have to be in a constant state of lonliness. Even around people I will feel that way, or like I can't even connect with people close to me. I mean from my perspective I would say that is pretty disabling to me as feeling that certainly only contributes to the co-morbid disorders I have

The behaviour of many people on this forum is not that different from interaction on the average NT forum - believe me, I've experienced enough of it! - there's still all the jockying for position and ignoring/patronising of intelligent people who are making perfectly decent points that others fail to grasp - it's all here, just with an autistic overlay.

Well to be fair we are talking forums, not real life interaction.....as I already explained how that can vary. Also you seem to be doing quite a bit of ignoring/patronizing of people to, also assuming you're more intelligent than everyone here then either disregarding responses or mocking/down playing peoples difficulties because you dont belive any of us could possibly have any serious symptoms is not exactly the best way to go about having a discussion

And as far as remembering to buy groceries is concerned - you can set up reminders on the Microsoft Outlook Calendar and write a 'To Do' list - this works for me. (I do realise there will be fundamental reasons why this obvious solution won't work for you though - it never will for people who aren't seeking an actual solution to their problems)

Because everyone would remember to check microsoft outlook every day to look at the to do list?......I know that might just make things even more confusing because then I would have to try to remember to add things to the to do list and then of course remember to look at it.....then I'd end up getting anxious when I didn't have access to a computer as well because I wouldn't remember what I had to do. So I can see how someone might have trouble with remembering things and how microsoft outlook could in fact just make things more confusing.

Ever read 'The Games People Play' by Eric Berne? You should - many people on here exhibit classic examples of the "Why Don't You — Yes But," game.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Games_People_Play_(book)


Well I suppose many people here shall have to look that up to determine what it is you're talking about.


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29 Apr 2012, 11:27 am

nessa238 wrote:
I'm trying to help people to think more widely than the self-important opinions of idiots on forums but it's a lost cause!

People will need to read this thread right from the start to see what/who I'm talking about.

I don't have to think in ANY particular way to suit you or anyone on this forum - I don't toe the
party line like the conformist herd on here - I'm an individual and if you have even the slightest grasp of history you will know that the individual thinker is positively loathed by the majority for being just that - an individual!


I've read it from the start and you've been hostile the entire time....if you're trying to 'help' people you could start by not insulting us all. How do you expect people to respectfully and open mindedly see your perspective when you're in attack mode, it makes people kind of defensive you know.

I can see some of your points, but the way your going about it is insulting for one.....not to mention as much as your complaining about people not thinking for themselves and just trying to follow the herd. The same could be said of you you get aggressive even insulting if anyone disagrees with your perspective and go on about how close minded they are, well to be honest that is a better example of you being close minded and refusing to consider any other perspectives besides your own apparently infalliable ones.

Also it is a pretty common veiw of society in general that we just exaggerate our difficulties, aren't actually struggling ect...so why agree with that conformist herd?


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29 Apr 2012, 11:31 am

Quote:
But this is highly hypothetical anyway, I very much doubt many people would seek a diagnosis if they didn't have a need for support on some level or another. Few people want labels unless the label would improve their situation.


Have you read the board lately?

Several posters are going after DXes for a "sense of belonging" or to "explain why they don't fit in." I keep seeing posts popping up that are describing garden-variety introversion, but it's being regarded as "autism." I think that's a bad thing.

This is the attitude I'm specifically addressing. "Autism" is not a "personality type."

Quote:
Also, regarding economy: While working on social skills (or any other problem) with your shrink is possible with no diagnosis, it is expensive. In those countries where appointments are covered *if there is a medical reason for them*, that is most definitely a significant need for support. In such case, a diagnosis would secure future therapy - I would not be able to afford a psychologist without coverage.


An unfortunate reality of life, but DXes of actual disorders should be reserved for people who are specifically experiencing impairments.

I don't see the value in DXing someone with a mental disorder because they "might" experience impairments in the future and because "medical care is expensive." It makes about as much sense as diagnosing someone with cancer who hasn't been shown to have cancer, but who MIGHT get cancer and who MIGHT need treatment.

Technically, everyone MIGHT experience mental dysfunction in the future; however, everyone probably shouldn't be DXed with a mental disorder as a preventative measure.


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29 Apr 2012, 11:40 am

XFilesGeek wrote:
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But this is highly hypothetical anyway, I very much doubt many people would seek a diagnosis if they didn't have a need for support on some level or another. Few people want labels unless the label would improve their situation.


Have you read the board lately?

Several posters are going after DXes for a "sense of belonging" or to "explain why they don't fit in." I keep seeing posts popping up that are describing garden-variety introversion, but it's being regarded as "autism." I think that's a bad thing.

This is the attitude I'm specifically addressing. "Autism" is not a "personality type."

Quote:
Also, regarding economy: While working on social skills (or any other problem) with your shrink is possible with no diagnosis, it is expensive. In those countries where appointments are covered *if there is a medical reason for them*, that is most definitely a significant need for support. In such case, a diagnosis would secure future therapy - I would not be able to afford a psychologist without coverage.


An unfortunate reality of life, but DXes of actual disorders should be reserved for people who are specifically experiencing impairments.

I don't see the value in DXing someone with a mental disorder because they "might" experience impairments in the future and because "medical care is expensive." It makes about as much sense as diagnosing someone with cancer who hasn't been shown to have cancer, but who MIGHT get cancer and who MIGHT need treatment.

Technically, everyone MIGHT experience mental dysfunction in the future; however, everyone probably shouldn't be DXed with a mental disorder as a preventative measure.


Logical argument is futile on this forum

Two minutes ago we had 'if you have no actual support needs there doesn't seem any point in getting a diganosis' - now we have 'get a diagnosis anyway just to be on the safe side'

Can't you see they just like to contradict for the sake of it? - regardless of the rationality of their argument

They all seem to want to agree with each other, while wildly contradicting each other at the same time! It's like being in 'Alice in Wonderland'!

Once you grasp this basic premise, everything else falls into place



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29 Apr 2012, 11:42 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
Not everyone who 'needs' support has it, so what do you do with that....I mean luckily I am not totally alone in the world and have some friends and family who can help me, but if it was not for them I don't even know where I would be.


Not trying to be rude, but if your family is taking care of you, then you have "support," which is why I mentioned that "support" doesn't necessarily involve government welfare (which I absolutely don't have a problem with----my mother and I were on foodstamps for a time).

I occasionally volunteer at a soup kitchen for the homeless. It's obvious that many of the homeless people I see have cognitive impairments. That's where people end-up who have absolutely no support in life.

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But I cannot afford professional 'support' regardless of how much I do struggle with my symptoms and not just AS.....with the AS I've learned it is how my brain functions so I have to try to work with that.....not against it other then that my co-morbid disorders can be hell. If one has a consistant disorder, I would think it would actually be detrimental to just try to push through issues until there is no doubt about it that you need help....with some disorders the longer you post pone adressing it the worse it gets. That's what's happened with my depression, anxiety and PTSD.....as for the AS it was never identified when I was a child so it might not have gotten 'worse' but the differences it caused between me and most people seemed to bring on mis-treatment from other students and some teachers and I had to cope with feeling like I don't belong and the lonliness and pain it caused certainly took its toll.


Based on what I know about you from your posting history, I think you fall into the category that you pretty obviously need support and thereby SHOULD receive a DX. :wink:

To reiterate, I'm mainly addressing the attitude that AS/ASDs are just "introversion" or that people should seek a DX of a mental disorder in order to "explain why they feel different."

My own experiences are probably coloring my view because my DX didn't happen because I decided to stroll down to the local shrink's office on a Sunday afternoon for the purposes of "self-discovery." Being DXed is kind of a big deal.


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Last edited by XFilesGeek on 29 Apr 2012, 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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29 Apr 2012, 11:46 am

XFilesGeek wrote:
Quote:
But this is highly hypothetical anyway, I very much doubt many people would seek a diagnosis if they didn't have a need for support on some level or another. Few people want labels unless the label would improve their situation.


Have you read the board lately?

Several posters are going after DXes for a "sense of belonging" or to "explain why they don't fit in." I keep seeing posts popping up that are describing garden-variety introversion, but it's being regarded as "autism." I think that's a bad thing.

This is the attitude I'm specifically addressing. "Autism" is not a "personality type."

Quote:
Also, regarding economy: While working on social skills (or any other problem) with your shrink is possible with no diagnosis, it is expensive. In those countries where appointments are covered *if there is a medical reason for them*, that is most definitely a significant need for support. In such case, a diagnosis would secure future therapy - I would not be able to afford a psychologist without coverage.


An unfortunate reality of life, but DXes of actual disorders should be reserved for people who are specifically experiencing impairments.

I don't see the value in DXing someone with a mental disorder because they "might" experience impairments in the future and because "medical care is expensive." It makes about as much sense as diagnosing someone with cancer who hasn't been shown to have cancer, but who MIGHT get cancer and who MIGHT need treatment.

Technically, everyone MIGHT experience mental dysfunction in the future; however, everyone probably shouldn't be DXed with a mental disorder as a preventative measure.


I think I have mental disorders, because I am experiancing impairments right now in this part of my life. Still can't afford an official diagnoses probably, though I found a place that might be able to help for little or no cost, which I am considering. I think most people that go after a diagnoses are experiancing impairments, not worried about experiancing them in the future but actually currently experiancing them.


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29 Apr 2012, 11:52 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
Quote:
But this is highly hypothetical anyway, I very much doubt many people would seek a diagnosis if they didn't have a need for support on some level or another. Few people want labels unless the label would improve their situation.


Have you read the board lately?

Several posters are going after DXes for a "sense of belonging" or to "explain why they don't fit in." I keep seeing posts popping up that are describing garden-variety introversion, but it's being regarded as "autism." I think that's a bad thing.

This is the attitude I'm specifically addressing. "Autism" is not a "personality type."

Quote:
Also, regarding economy: While working on social skills (or any other problem) with your shrink is possible with no diagnosis, it is expensive. In those countries where appointments are covered *if there is a medical reason for them*, that is most definitely a significant need for support. In such case, a diagnosis would secure future therapy - I would not be able to afford a psychologist without coverage.


An unfortunate reality of life, but DXes of actual disorders should be reserved for people who are specifically experiencing impairments.

I don't see the value in DXing someone with a mental disorder because they "might" experience impairments in the future and because "medical care is expensive." It makes about as much sense as diagnosing someone with cancer who hasn't been shown to have cancer, but who MIGHT get cancer and who MIGHT need treatment.

Technically, everyone MIGHT experience mental dysfunction in the future; however, everyone probably shouldn't be DXed with a mental disorder as a preventative measure.


I think I have mental disorders, because I am experiancing impairments right now in this part of my life. Still can't afford an official diagnoses probably, though I found a place that might be able to help for little or no cost, which I am considering. I think most people that go after a diagnoses are experiancing impairments, not worried about experiancing them in the future but actually currently experiancing them.


And we all know they can be experiencend on and off from minute to minute right?



Last edited by nessa238 on 29 Apr 2012, 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

XFilesGeek
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29 Apr 2012, 11:55 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
Quote:
But this is highly hypothetical anyway, I very much doubt many people would seek a diagnosis if they didn't have a need for support on some level or another. Few people want labels unless the label would improve their situation.


Have you read the board lately?

Several posters are going after DXes for a "sense of belonging" or to "explain why they don't fit in." I keep seeing posts popping up that are describing garden-variety introversion, but it's being regarded as "autism." I think that's a bad thing.

This is the attitude I'm specifically addressing. "Autism" is not a "personality type."

Quote:
Also, regarding economy: While working on social skills (or any other problem) with your shrink is possible with no diagnosis, it is expensive. In those countries where appointments are covered *if there is a medical reason for them*, that is most definitely a significant need for support. In such case, a diagnosis would secure future therapy - I would not be able to afford a psychologist without coverage.


An unfortunate reality of life, but DXes of actual disorders should be reserved for people who are specifically experiencing impairments.

I don't see the value in DXing someone with a mental disorder because they "might" experience impairments in the future and because "medical care is expensive." It makes about as much sense as diagnosing someone with cancer who hasn't been shown to have cancer, but who MIGHT get cancer and who MIGHT need treatment.

Technically, everyone MIGHT experience mental dysfunction in the future; however, everyone probably shouldn't be DXed with a mental disorder as a preventative measure.


I think I have mental disorders, because I am experiancing impairments right now in this part of my life. Still can't afford an official diagnoses probably, though I found a place that might be able to help for little or no cost, which I am considering. I think most people that go after a diagnoses are experiancing impairments, not worried about experiancing them in the future but actually currently experiancing them.



Well, I think it'd be pretty hard to find out how many people going for official DXes are really experiencing "impairments" and how many are just going for "self-discovery," which is why I'm largely limiting my observations to what I see here on WP.

In any case, good luck with your appointment. Yes, the U.S. healthcare system is messed-up.


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-XFG (no longer a moderator)