Adults with Aspergers Seem 'Normal' to Me

Page 20 of 25 [ 398 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23 ... 25  Next

Matt62
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jan 2012
Age: 62
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,230

27 Apr 2012, 6:47 pm

I was weird about lunch (never dinner! breakfast was too often sweet cereal of some child brand or something). I would eat sandwiches if they were cut into quarters, but I always left the crust. I hated that. I also despised peanutbutter because the sticking to the roof of my mouth. Anything that did that could cause me to panic. It also seems I have hypersensitivity in areas of my mouth. Also, I hated mayonaise. It actively gagged me, no matter how hard I tried to please my mother. I truly died not want to hurt her feelings, but.. I could not eat these blasted things. And she would give me the same thing over & over, and over to were I would become intolerant of that food item.
I also hated pizza when I was a kid. Now how sick is that? One of the greatest food ever made! I love it now.
I tolerate more foods these days, but I cannot eat a lot of them anymore because of my Crohn's. Damn! I got to where eating was a real source of pleasure. And it got taken away from me.
Irony sucks!

Sincerely,
Matthew



Max000
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Apr 2012
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,547

27 Apr 2012, 7:07 pm

nessa238 wrote:
Who_Am_I wrote:
Quote:
Are you familiar with the concept of 'just trying to get on with things despite the difficulties'?


Look. The other day, I was overloaded, and my visual processing broke down. The only reason I didn't get run over crossing the road is that there were no cars coming, because I couldn't work out the traffic.
Are you going to call that laziness?
I regularly teach my students with a foggy head and a thumping headache because a child has screamed on the bus.
Are you going to call that laziness?
If my bus ride to work is bad enough, the "simple" acts of making eye contact with my students and getting words out is enough to make me fall over with exhaustion after work.
Is that laziness?


You mean your vision went blurry?

That might indicate an actual problem wth your eyes - do you wear glasses?

When was the last time you had your eyes tested?

I've had that effect as a side effect of taking an SSRI anti-depressant - everything in my visual field broke up and went blurry and moved around, like when a TV set breaks down and the display is moving around in a weird way


I've also have had vision overload problems my entire life. I do wear glasses, but that has nothing to do with it. Several days ago I was walking across a parking lot toward the entrance of a store. It was noon time and the bright sun was directly overhead. When I got about 20 feet from the entrance, suddenly my vision just went white. It felt like I was staring directly into the sun. I just keep on walking and when I got to the door, my vision corrected and I could see just fine.

That was a little unusual for me, but not the first time it has happened. Sometimes I just get blind spots in front of my eyes. So I can't see objects right in front of me. All I can do is close my eyes, and rest them until my vision gets back to normal. Fortunately it doesn't happen very often, and when it does, doesn't last very long.



xero052
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 47

27 Apr 2012, 7:08 pm

Quote:
Accommodations outside of exams are more difficult to get, but any significant disability (including mood disorders, AD(H)D, ASDs, physical impairment, etc, etc) will make you qualify for at least counseling and a study assistant


And who decides if what I have is a significant disability? A checklist in the DSM.
Don't get me wrong. I don't believe that doctors are bad people or misguided or anything. They are caught up in this push to medicalize everything in society. I just don't like that I either have to suffer, or admit that I have what many many people feel is a disease. I'm of course going to do what I need to do get accommodations, it just troubles me. I've found this to be true of many things in life.

Quote:
I've never heard of anyone getting a note taking assistant, but you're allowed to record classes, as far as I understand. Most professors use a document camera instead of the whiteboard anyway, and scan the notes after class so students can download them. The ones who don't are still required to publish extensive notes, so they just increase their own workload by writing everything twice. And lose popularity if their published notes aren't as good as the whiteboard ones...


It's not a note-taking assistant, the school pays another student in your section $15 to send a copy of their notes to the accessability office, who give it a quick look, and send it to you. You don't know who the note-taker is. One of my professors has difficulty putting hyperlinks in emails, so published notes are out of the question. It's law school, so everyone has a laptop anyway. My current method is to just sit and listen in class, but recording is a hassle bc you have to ask permission, and not all profs give it. (in an era of youtube and selective editing, I can see why).

Quote:
I'm satisfied with the accommodations in my university at least. I belong to the group who at one point just "tried harder" (which usually means to pretend one's problems aren't there, instead of overcoming them
-

Same here. In my case it meant taking mediocre results instead of excelling. I got my degree ok, and had a decent enough job for 5 years, but I wanted a bigger challenge. So now Im in law school, and I can't overcome on my own anymore. I can't even get mediocre results. So I'm seeing a counselor for the first time a week from monday, once finals are over. I'm going to request an ASD evaluation. I think if I can just deal with the depression and anxiety, I can cope with the AS well enough.

Quote:
I deeply regret I didn't accept my *disability* earlier, as it would've spared me a lot of time, energy and lost opportunities.


bingo

Quote:
Our current society makes that disability worse, by emphasizing social ability, stress handling and so on more than it ever did (a prime example of the latter is having everyone work in the same, big hall instead of separate offices). I'm sure the increase of diagnoses isn't only caused by awareness, but also by ASDs being more noticeable due to changes in our society. That doesn't mean it's not a disability, since 1) the problems would be there in another society too, they'd just be somewhat more manageable (I'd probably have less sensory problems if I lived before phosphorescent light was invented, but I'd still hate being outside on a sunny day), and 2) disability is measured against the demands of current society.


Agree 100%. My only point is that any inequality could be argued as a disability. I can't run long distances, if I lived in a society which required running a lot, such as a hunter-gatherer society, would I be disabled? You could certainly argue that. But that just proves my point- disability is normative. I don't like that my departure from social norms is given a medical context, and is in fact referred to as a disease by many people.

Quote:
Being formally disabled has opened doors to a career through social security financing a new degree, it has given me the accommodations and support I need to get through the degree (hopefully) without spending six years on it, and it has given me and those around me an explanation for why I am like I am.


Also agree that I believe that I can indeed excel given the proper tools and accommodations. I don't like that in order for my school to help me, they need a medical reason, rather than simply an educational one.



Max000
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Apr 2012
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,547

27 Apr 2012, 7:24 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
pensieve wrote:
If I don't eat the same sandwich for lunch but I want to make something else I would probably starve. My brain can't decide what to get and usually I end up panicking and then making myself a sandwich. I like when I have leftovers from dinner the night before. It's so much easier.

I need to eat around the same time everyday and there's people downstairs who are going to do some filming. I want to stay right away but I need to eat. I need to decide where I'm going to go when the filming starts. Otherwise I'll have a hypoglycaemic reaction. I like it when I'm able to focus anyway.

I have severe sensory issues too which I need medication to decrease. Still, I have to wear dark glasses so I don't get a migraine. I will still get sensory overload despite being on them.

I don't dissociate when I go down town, I have derealisation, which makes me see the world as kinda weird a dreamy and I hallucinate. I'm pretty sure I have depersonalisation too because I don't feel close to people. It's like there's a wall between them and me.

I pushed myself once...I ended up having severe seizures and shutdowns followed by cognitive regression. So now I pace myself. My symptoms are worse since the regression too. So push yourself, regress and less people would be saying you seem normal.

Don't really. It's an awful thing to go through. I've had to rehabilitate myself twice now. Know your limits and don't let people that tell you you're not trying hard enough get you down.


"Severe Seizures"?

So you have epilepsy as well as autism?

You have this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epileptic_seizure


One does not have to have epilepsy to have a severe seizure.


No, but if the seizures are chronic, that is an indication of epilepsy.



Last edited by Max000 on 27 Apr 2012, 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Max000
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Apr 2012
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,547

27 Apr 2012, 7:37 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
pensieve wrote:
If I don't eat the same sandwich for lunch but I want to make something else I would probably starve. My brain can't decide what to get and usually I end up panicking and then making myself a sandwich. I like when I have leftovers from dinner the night before. It's so much easier.

I need to eat around the same time everyday and there's people downstairs who are going to do some filming. I want to stay right away but I need to eat. I need to decide where I'm going to go when the filming starts. Otherwise I'll have a hypoglycaemic reaction. I like it when I'm able to focus anyway.

I have severe sensory issues too which I need medication to decrease. Still, I have to wear dark glasses so I don't get a migraine. I will still get sensory overload despite being on them.

I don't dissociate when I go down town, I have derealisation, which makes me see the world as kinda weird a dreamy and I hallucinate. I'm pretty sure I have depersonalisation too because I don't feel close to people. It's like there's a wall between them and me.

I pushed myself once...I ended up having severe seizures and shutdowns followed by cognitive regression. So now I pace myself. My symptoms are worse since the regression too. So push yourself, regress and less people would be saying you seem normal.

Don't really. It's an awful thing to go through. I've had to rehabilitate myself twice now. Know your limits and don't let people that tell you you're not trying hard enough get you down.


"Severe Seizures"?

So you have epilepsy as well as autism?

You have this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epileptic_seizure


One does not have to have epilepsy to have a severe seizure.


No, but if the seizures are chronic, that is an indication epilepsy.



Max000
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Apr 2012
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,547

27 Apr 2012, 9:03 pm

nessa238 wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Sora wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
Yes I realise that

I was talking specifically to a person who was posting on a discussion forum though so I'm presuming she'd at least be able to order herself a pizza online and hence not starve (as long as her sensory issues weren't playing up too much on that particuar day and she was able to work out how to put her account details onto the computer, which, as she's got some kind of advanced Maths degree I'm guessing shouldn't be too much of a problem for her

One never knows though as one thing I have learned is not to expect the slightest degree of logic or consistency in these matters


Having my brain (and not that of someone else who is different from me in this aspect), it occurs me as perfectly logical to not be able to do it as an autistic person, going to an unfamiliar website and filling out an unfamiliar form without support. Depending on the style of writing and despite that I can score very high on IQ tests, it can be very difficult to understand the written directions that are given to lead people through the process of ordering.

I don't have an advanced maths degree (like Tuttle?) but I guess a high IQ and having been in regular ed will do as these usually make people think means I can do all sorts of things others can including ordering pizza. I struggle with it anyway, I'd certainly try and perhaps I'd succeed - if not, I'll make someone else do it (and, for example, go hunt for cutlery instead) and likely ask them to teach me if I think it is useful and that I can master it.

Watching (non-autistic) friends ordering pizza online or by phone I know that it's perfectly logical to them to be able to do it because that's how they function. I'd think it odd if they couldn't do it - though the guys are sometimes too lazy to bother and will try to wriggle out of ordering food.


I would have trouble ordering pizza on the phone because it involves calling someone and I don't do so well with that it provokes much more anxiety than it should but yes I have been physically unable to make calls before because it was simply to anxiety provoking or whatever....so I use phones a little as possible.


I find using the phone ok for task-based things - I have no problem talking to anyone over the phone to get something done. I don't like chatting over the phone though - I'd far rather talk online via MSN/email/discussion forum.


I also have weird phone issues. I don't really have problems calling on the phone, but its just so damn stressful. In most cases I'd rather just go and take care of business in person, then call on the phone. The first problem is having to listen to the ear raping hold music, for 5 - 10 min. - hour. Then the connection is usually bad and I can't hear the other person.

I try to limit my phone calling to one call a day. If I need to make multiple calls I spread them out over days. When I know that I need to make a call, I sometimes procrastinate for days or even weeks before actually making the call.

Its kind of weird. It should be easier to talk to someone on the phone, without having to make eye contact then in person.



RLgnome
Raven
Raven

User avatar

Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 118

27 Apr 2012, 9:46 pm

xero052 wrote:
Quote:
Accommodations outside of exams are more difficult to get, but any significant disability (including mood disorders, AD(H)D, ASDs, physical impairment, etc, etc) will make you qualify for at least counseling and a study assistant


And who decides if what I have is a significant disability? A checklist in the DSM.
Don't get me wrong. I don't believe that doctors are bad people or misguided or anything. They are caught up in this push to medicalize everything in society. I just don't like that I either have to suffer, or admit that I have what many many people feel is a disease. I'm of course going to do what I need to do get accommodations, it just troubles me. I've found this to be true of many things in life.


I see your point, I'm just well past caring about it in my own life. The depressions and a few bouts of hypomania due to antidepressives (ironic, isn't it) took away my pride (just for the record: I mean pride in the neutral/positive sense, so I'm not accusing you of pride in the negative sense ;-) - I've had people misunderstand that in conversations before) in that regard.

I also don't bother about people believing autism to be a disease. If they're ignorant enough to not see/know the difference between diseases, disorders, genetic differences etc., they're probably not worth knowing. Some of them have turned out to be okay anyway, but those are the ones who tend to be... receptive of education.

And in the end, autism is medical. I agree there's a certain tendency in society to "pathologize" a lot of things. Like the ever so debated excessive video gaming. Most research shows that at worst, it's a sign that something else is wrong. That may be true for other addictions too, but drug abuse or alcoholism won't end by itself if you remove the underlying reasons, neither will, in most cases, gambling addiction. Excessive gaming will, like it did for me. Twice. And as opposed to many/most alcoholics, I don't fall back into excessive gaming just because I touch an MMO. That's of course excluding the few cases that really *are* pathological, but hey, some guy died from vitamins a few years ago, did he have pathological vitamin addiction? But parents want a pathological explanation, without identifying the underlying reasons. So they make yet another diagnosis. Or rather, they haven't (unless I missed something), but some therapists act like they did. But I digress (I do that a lot...). My point is; autism is, in my opinion, "medical", since it includes significant problems that are directly linked to neurology. We're not only behaviorally different from everyone, we're biologically different. If people think of "disease" if they hear the word "doctor" or any commonly known diagnose, that's their problem. I knew someone once that kept thinking I was going to surgery when I went for electroconvulsive therapy for depression (bad idea, by the way). Her problem, not mine. I actually still chuckle at the thought that she probably still thinks they've ran off with pieces of my brain. At least that's what I think now - I'd probably have said something different ten years ago.

Also, I think the reason the whole "accommodation system" is based on formal diagnosis (except, at least here, small things like extended time for exams) and hence a DSM (or similar) checklist, is cost, which I can understand. Giving every student that much resources would probably drive a university bankrupt, or increase tuition significantly, which would again drive the university bankrupt due to lack of students... To uphold at least an illusion of fairness, those resources are given to people with documented needs. Also, practical reasons come into play; If every student were to have his/hers own room during an exam, there wouldn't be enough rooms for everyone. So they limit that to those who can at least get a doctor to attest to their need. And even extra time is to some extent limited by this mechanism; If every student had extended time, teachers would just put in extra stuff to keep the workload up, then the ones with a real need for it would need yet another hour, and we're back to scratch. And if there wasn't a requirement even to have a doctor sign a form for you without necessarily giving a formal diagnosis of anything, *every* student *would* apply for it.

Quote:
Quote:
I've never heard of anyone getting a note taking assistant, but you're allowed to record classes, as far as I understand. Most professors use a document camera instead of the whiteboard anyway, and scan the notes after class so students can download them. The ones who don't are still required to publish extensive notes, so they just increase their own workload by writing everything twice. And lose popularity if their published notes aren't as good as the whiteboard ones...


It's not a note-taking assistant, the school pays another student in your section $15 to send a copy of their notes to the accessability office, who give it a quick look, and send it to you. You don't know who the note-taker is. One of my professors has difficulty putting hyperlinks in emails, so published notes are out of the question. It's law school, so everyone has a laptop anyway. My current method is to just sit and listen in class, but recording is a hassle bc you have to ask permission, and not all profs give it. (in an era of youtube and selective editing, I can see why).


I see, could be they're doing something like that here, too. Haven't asked or been offered anything like it. I was offered some sort of pen device that, in addition to making your notes digital, also can start recording when you lose track. But it requires neat handwriting, is rumored to record more background noise than teaching, and isn't ideal for math based classes. So I decided to rely on the published notes. Professors here are, by the way, required to give all information through digital channels, so if they couldn't put a hyperlink into an e-mail, they'd be in significant trouble or need of a secretary ;-) That doesn't mean they're all great at it, but at least they manage to keep up a minimum of online info and notes.

Quote:
Quote:
I'm satisfied with the accommodations in my university at least. I belong to the group who at one point just "tried harder" (which usually means to pretend one's problems aren't there, instead of overcoming them
-

Same here. In my case it meant taking mediocre results instead of excelling. I got my degree ok, and had a decent enough job for 5 years, but I wanted a bigger challenge. So now Im in law school, and I can't overcome on my own anymore. I can't even get mediocre results. So I'm seeing a counselor for the first time a week from monday, once finals are over. I'm going to request an ASD evaluation. I think if I can just deal with the depression and anxiety, I can cope with the AS well enough.


I've had this weird thing where it's been shifting between taking mediocre results, none at all, or excelling. May depend on the class, may depend on my condition, etc etc. A typical pattern, though, is that my best results have been in subjects I understand intuitively/"by instinct", while the ones with mediocre grades are subjects I might have excelled in under "normal" circumstances (as if ever there's been such a thing in my life...). The ones I didn't take, were either due to illness, lack of energy or in some cases lack of "talent". I'm also in the situation where I think I can cope with the AS well enough, if I just had secondary problems resolved. My anxiety is well handled, and only a problem in the event of sensory overload or significant stress. I haven't been really/clinically depressed for years. But I have severely excessive sleepiness, which may well be narcolepsy (positive gene test, but waiting for the lab test), and also attention problems, bordering to ADD. I hope to have medication for those (at least I'm "lucky" it's the same medication... that will probably leave me with one diagnosis instead of two) within the year, and then I suspect I'll finally be able to live up to my ability, due to the accommodations I finally have for AS. Sadly, that's taken way too long. At least now I have a valid reason for postponing my exams when I need to, without feeling bad for doing it. I've postponed my math exam this term, and decided to take less exams until I have the secondary problems under control. In any case, I'll spend less time than I did last time, due to better AS-related accommodations.

Quote:
Quote:
Our current society makes that disability worse, by emphasizing social ability, stress handling and so on more than it ever did (a prime example of the latter is having everyone work in the same, big hall instead of separate offices). I'm sure the increase of diagnoses isn't only caused by awareness, but also by ASDs being more noticeable due to changes in our society. That doesn't mean it's not a disability, since 1) the problems would be there in another society too, they'd just be somewhat more manageable (I'd probably have less sensory problems if I lived before phosphorescent light was invented, but I'd still hate being outside on a sunny day), and 2) disability is measured against the demands of current society.


Agree 100%. My only point is that any inequality could be argued as a disability. I can't run long distances, if I lived in a society which required running a lot, such as a hunter-gatherer society, would I be disabled? You could certainly argue that. But that just proves my point- disability is normative. I don't like that my departure from social norms is given a medical context, and is in fact referred to as a disease by many people.


Well, if you had no possibility of learning/training to run long distances, as in it being virtually impossible, you would have. And if so, I'd say that is a disability in our society too. If there's suddenly a war, and your life depends on running from something, you would feel very disabled very fast :p But more seriously, in my understanding a disability exists in the moment there is an objectively observable and persistent physical (including neurology) or mental obstacle to learning or training an ability that most people can acquire. That doesn't mean the ability can't be learned in all cases (aspies often can simulate NT behavior, to some extent, after all), but the disability will still be there (it's still a simulation, not intuitive). With that definition, a departure from social norms just from personality or decision isn't enough to label something a disability, but once that departure is caused by genetics, and creates obstacles to functioning within society's expectations, it is a disability. Of course an autistic person wouldn't be seen as disabled if he or she lived in a community of a few people who didn't raise those expectations (society with cars and grocery stores, and hence no need to chase game or flee mammoths), and things like sensory issues, executive function etc. weren't in the picture, but the person would still be disabled if he or she had to go to town (hunting society or war).



xero052
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 47

28 Apr 2012, 1:05 am

Quote:
I see your point, I'm just well past caring about it in my own life. The depressions and a few bouts of hypomania due to antidepressives (ironic, isn't it) took away my pride (just for the record: I mean pride in the neutral/positive sense, so I'm not accusing you of pride in the negative sense - I've had people misunderstand that in conversations before) in that regard


I guess I don't understand what this 'pride' thing is. I do feel shame sometimes, esp when people who were counting on me are let down. But as far as caring what people think about my talents, grades, etc etc I don't care. I do want friends, I just don't need everyone to like me, or think I'm the greatest. I do, however, tend to like most people, which is probably a bad thing in the long run :\ But I can't help it, I usually see the best in people, or at least can empathize with the worst.

Quote:
I also don't bother about people believing autism to be a disease. If they're ignorant enough to not see/know the difference between diseases, disorders, genetic differences etc., they're probably not worth knowing. Some of them have turned out to be okay anyway, but those are the ones who tend to be... receptive of education……..autism is, in my opinion, "medical", since it includes significant problems that are directly linked to neurology. We're not only behaviorally different from everyone, we're biologically different. If people think of "disease" if they hear the word "doctor" or any commonly known diagnose, that's their problem.


But a lot of things can be characterized like that. Left handedness meets all the same requirements, maybe less so with 'significant problems', but certainly it is directly based on neurology. Homosexuality is another example, and indeed it was classified as a disorder for years. Having it removed from the DSM was a major milestone in the history of the gay rights movement. Having it back in the DSM would qualify it for ADA protection, and would solve a lot of workplace discrimination problems. Do you think that is worth bearing the stigma of disease for a gay person? I'm not gay so I can't answer, but I think most would agree that getting out of the DSM was a major step forward. I want the AS community, at least the highest functioning, to be taken out of the DSM and instead protected by discrimination laws alone. I would much rather be part of a 'diversity' paradigm than an 'accessibility' paradigm.

It's worse though than people being ignorant. There are groups actively promoting the idea that AS is a 'disease'. I really feel that the stigma that term carries is not helpful, even among people who are sympathetic to the AS community. If a person believes that you and I have a disease, they may fervently want a 'cure'. At the very least, this is unhelpful. We need broader awareness and acceptance. We need to think in terms of civil rights more broadly than inclusion in the category 'disabled'. I think we ought to look to the gay rights movement as a model for the way forward.

Quote:
Also, I think the reason the whole "accommodation system" is based on formal diagnosis (except, at least here, small things like extended time for exams) and hence a DSM (or similar) checklist, is cost, which I can understand. Giving every student that much resources would probably drive a university bankrupt, or increase tuition significantly, which would again drive the university bankrupt due to lack of students... To uphold at least an illusion of fairness, those resources are given to people with documented needs. Also, practical reasons come into play; If every student were to have his/hers own room during an exam, there wouldn't be enough rooms for everyone. So they limit that to those who can at least get a doctor to attest to their need. And even extra time is to some extent limited by this mechanism; If every student had extended time, teachers would just put in extra stuff to keep the workload up, then the ones with a real need for it would need yet another hour, and we're back to scratch. And if there wasn't a requirement even to have a doctor sign a form for you without necessarily giving a formal diagnosis of anything, *every* student *would* apply for it.


Those are the problems I see as well. They are all valid concerns. I think things like having a set of notes published after each class would be very helpful, and wouldn't be subject to those issues. More discretion should be given to profs and admins to give certain accommodations without a medical excuse. Really, if a person were exceptionally short, they wouldn't need to prove that they were within some certain percentile of height to be given a chair that fit the exam desk. If someone were obviously AS, (anyone seeking accommodation wouldn't be hiding it, and anyone faking it couldn't pull it off) then they should be given reasonable accommodation.


Quote:
I've had this weird thing where it's been shifting between taking mediocre results, none at all, or excelling. May depend on the class, may depend on my condition, etc etc. A typical pattern, though, is that my best results have been in subjects I understand intuitively/"by instinct", while the ones with mediocre grades are subjects I might have excelled in under "normal" circumstances (as if ever there's been such a thing in my life...). The ones I didn't take, were either due to illness, lack of energy or in some cases lack of "talent". I'm also in the situation where I think I can cope with the AS well enough, if I just had secondary problems resolved. My anxiety is well handled, and only a problem in the event of sensory overload or significant stress. I haven't been really/clinically depressed for years. But I have severely excessive sleepiness, which may well be narcolepsy (positive gene test, but waiting for the lab test), and also attention problems, bordering to ADD. I hope to have medication for those (at least I'm "lucky" it's the same medication... that will probably leave me with one diagnosis instead of two) within the year, and then I suspect I'll finally be able to live up to my ability, due to the accommodations I finally have for AS. Sadly, that's taken way too long. At least now I have a valid reason for postponing my exams when I need to, without feeling bad for doing it. I've postponed my math exam this term, and decided to take less exams until I have the secondary problems under control. In any case, I'll spend less time than I did last time, due to better AS-related accommodations.


I don't have sensory issues too bad. I can't filter sounds, so any environment that has background noise makes it very hard for me to hear people. I have light sensitivity, but sunglasses usually take care of it. My problem has been anxiety and depression. I've been depressed to some degree or anther for probably close to 12 years now. The objects of my depression change, but it remains. Anxiety comes and goes, and is usually the result of my AS-traits being stressed. Depression is caused by the long-term effect of social isolation my AS has caused. But, if I can accommodate the AS, that should improve my anxiety, which in turn should help me build confidence, which should help with my social life (esp now that I can explain that I am AS), which should alleviate my depression. Turn a vicious cycle into a virtuous one.
There are a few NT lifestyle features I envy. One is close friendship, the second is romantic love, the third is the esteem of those whom I have esteem for. In order to have those I must be able to emulate (not simulate) some NT behaviors. I don't have a problem with that. In order to be a good chess player, an NT must emulate an AS person, from a certain point of view. And, to a certain extent, emulation of NT behavior does eventually become a bit intuitive, in the same way one learns how to ride a bike. I'll never be the life of the party, and I can't take excitement all night long, but I can make enough of a go of it to be in society. Until, that is, I'm forced into a situation where I can't compensate for my AS. At this point, I have a setback, which usually results in anxiety followed by a depression cycle. So I need help coping with setbacks when they occur, and not allow my AS traits to make things worse.


Quote:
Well, if you had no possibility of learning/training to run long distances, as in it being virtually impossible, you would have. And if so, I'd say that is a disability in our society too. If there's suddenly a war, and your life depends on running from something, you would feel very disabled very fast :p But more seriously, in my understanding a disability exists in the moment there is an objectively observable and persistent physical (including neurology) or mental obstacle to learning or training an ability that most people can acquire. That doesn't mean the ability can't be learned in all cases…. With that definition, a departure from social norms just from personality or decision isn't enough to label something a disability, but once that departure is caused by genetics, and creates obstacles to functioning within society's expectations, it is a disability. Of course an autistic person wouldn't be seen as disabled if he or she lived in a community of a few people who didn't raise those expectations (society with cars and grocery stores, and hence no need to chase game or flee mammoths), and things like sensory issues, executive function etc. weren't in the picture, but the person would still be disabled if he or she had to go to town (hunting society or war).


So we agree that disability is normative. I think that it is dangerous to put what is normative (disability) with what is not normative (disease). But before I can get to that, I need to address disability in greater detail.
Disability, to me, should be a term reserved for a permanent physical or neurological condition which would render the sufferer unable to live independently without help. This is extremely strict, and I think that it is necessarily so. I would say that it ought to be a normative standard, that is, a person wouldn't be able to live independently in our society without help. I would prefer to restrict 'help' to direct intervention by another person.
So applying that standard, a person with AS who can reasonably emulate NT behavior obviously isn't disabled. An AS person who cannot emulate NT at all may be disabled- if they require another person to bring them food, provide shelter, etc. A person who is severely autistic, and must live with a guardian, is obviously disabled.
So what about people whose quality of life is affected by a condition, but not severely enough to be disabled? Well, at that point we are pretty close to left hand/right hand, tall/short, gay/straight. I suspect, and I speculate without really knowing, that the problems these people face are more acute symptoms like depression or anxiety. Someone could be depressed about their left-handedness, or their height, or their sexuality, and that doesn't make those conditions disabilities. It's merely the subject of their other affliction.
Also, the above only applies to the so-called 'invisible disabilities'. Obviously if someone is missing an arm or a leg, or something of that nature, this test doesn't apply.

So, what are the consequences of not restricting the definition of disability like this? Stigma, obviously. Media phrases like 'autism epidemic'. (you would never see 'gay epidemic'). Also, it would clarify issues for people who are suffering. I don't believe I'm suffering from my AS; I'm suffering from depression and anxiety caused by the things I have to do because of AS. If I can deal with those, the AS isn't going to bother me. But if my AS were a disability, then I would be disabled yet not suffer at all. So, how disabling could it really be? Rather than try and shoe horn AS-persons into a category (disabled) that they really don't fit in, the AS movement should try and carve out our own protected class niche.



Verdandi
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Dec 2010
Age: 54
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,275
Location: University of California Sunnydale (fictional location - Real location Olympia, WA)

28 Apr 2012, 1:22 am

Being gay is not like having something like AS. Being gay is in itself not impairing. The problems come from society - laws against same sex marriage, laws that are used to persecute people in same sex relationships, police harassment, social ostracization, etc. Being gay is about who you're attracted to, and that's all.

Being autistic includes some of the above (but not based on attraction). But it also includes difficulties interacting with people, sensory sensitivities, executive dysfunction, co-morbids such as ADHD, depression, alexithymia, and anxiety, emotional dysregulation, intense focused interests that can make it difficult to focus on other, more productive things.

Essentially, being diagnosed on the autistic spectrum doesn't simply require having a particular thinking/perception style, but having difficulties that cause serious impairments in multiple areas of life - often, all areas of life. Being diagnosed as homosexual relied on prejudiced assumptions about gay people that are not true.

A lot of the problems autistic people experience are due to the fact that society doesn't accommodate us very well, but part of the reason for that is that autistic people tend to have very different tolerances than NTs. Gay people don't get that sort of thing from being gay.

Now, not being heterosexual myself, I find it frustrating that people invoke "gay used to be in the DSM" as a lead-in or elaboration on why they think AS should be removed from the DSM. The two are not the same thing and being gay simply does not lead to having additional needs above and beyond anyone else. It does likely mean that your needs that are similar to everyone else's may go unmet because there are laws against gay people receiving equal treatment under the law, but again, that doesn't really have anything at all to do with gay people and everything to do with prejudice against gay people.



Joe90
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 26,492
Location: UK

28 Apr 2012, 4:46 am

I don't forget to eat, I get very hungry.


_________________
Female


RLgnome
Raven
Raven

User avatar

Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 118

28 Apr 2012, 7:49 am

xero052 wrote:
I guess I don't understand what this 'pride' thing is. I do feel shame sometimes, esp when people who were counting on me are let down. But as far as caring what people think about my talents, grades, etc etc I don't care. I do want friends, I just don't need everyone to like me, or think I'm the greatest. I do, however, tend to like most people, which is probably a bad thing in the long run :\ But I can't help it, I usually see the best in people, or at least can empathize with the worst.


I pretty much use pride in the sense of "caring about one's reputation" (ie. not necessarily "taking pride in my great abilities/looks/shiny new car"), and in this particular case, "not wanting to be seen as ill/insane/etc". That is a survival mechanism, as long as it doesn't stop one from getting the required help.

Quote:
But a lot of things can be characterized like that. Left handedness meets all the same requirements, maybe less so with 'significant problems', but certainly it is directly based on neurology. Homosexuality is another example, and indeed it was classified as a disorder for years. Having it removed from the DSM was a major milestone in the history of the gay rights movement. Having it back in the DSM would qualify it for ADA protection, and would solve a lot of workplace discrimination problems. Do you think that is worth bearing the stigma of disease for a gay person? I'm not gay so I can't answer, but I think most would agree that getting out of the DSM was a major step forward. I want the AS community, at least the highest functioning, to be taken out of the DSM and instead protected by discrimination laws alone. I would much rather be part of a 'diversity' paradigm than an 'accessibility' paradigm.

It's worse though than people being ignorant. There are groups actively promoting the idea that AS is a 'disease'. I really feel that the stigma that term carries is not helpful, even among people who are sympathetic to the AS community. If a person believes that you and I have a disease, they may fervently want a 'cure'. At the very least, this is unhelpful. We need broader awareness and acceptance. We need to think in terms of civil rights more broadly than inclusion in the category 'disabled'. I think we ought to look to the gay rights movement as a model for the way forward.


Pretty much what Vernandi said. Being homosexual in itself doesn't bring with it "dysfunction" (perhaps other than reproduction) in every thinkable society, as the stigma is caused by society itself. Reproduction *may* be hindered by society itself, but a stigma-free society with bronze age technology wouldn't be able to provide for artificial insemination, and hence that is affected by possibility in addition to culture. Autism, however, brings with it "dysfunction" (i really don't like that word, but meh) in every conceivable society, due to things like sensory overload. As I mentioned, I'd probably have a better life in a world without phosphorescent light, but the sun would still keep me from going outside on the days everyone else hate to be inside. Also, a world where regular social interaction was *not* "NT-style" is only barely conceivable, since it's caused by genetics. A stigma-free society is conceivable, but even then, there would be problems. So pretty much, if you look past the reproduction part, homosexuality and autism can't be compared, since the first's problems are purely based on society, while the second's problems would be consistent (in type, not degree) in any society.

A more pragmatic point is that being homosexual doesn't make you need any form of assistance. I do. I need people to clean up after me once in a while (that's done by my parents now, but when they're gone, or I move overseas [it's not like I need this every week, so a few hours' distance isn't a problem], I may very well have to apply for healthcare assistants to do that for me). I need counseling to figure out stuff most people do by themselves. At the same time, i figure out things by myself that regular people don't, but those skills sadly aren't very helpful in a household. Since those services are tied to healthcare, due to their cost and any country's limited resources, disabilities also are tied to medicine. And to be honest, it is a logical categorization, since it is linked with/caused by biology (excluding mental conditions caused by environment, but those again probably affect the brain). Medicine is about much more than decease in our time, and the stigma is caused by ignorant people, whether promoting it or not. Disabilities like Down syndrome aren't diseases either, but I see no other area in which to fit them; since disabilities that in themselves don't require medical care (in the strict sense of the word) often have co-morbids that do, removing it from the healthcare system would only complicate things. Living in a social democracy, I'm grateful for every public institution, department or service I can avoid ;-) They're all so inefficient that free healthcare sometimes turns out to be more expensive than if you paid for it yourself, in terms of lost wages while waiting for the treatment. Too bad I haven't had the cash to pay for it, as that would probably have left me with more money in the end. But I guess that's another discussion.

Quote:
Those are the problems I see as well. They are all valid concerns. I think things like having a set of notes published after each class would be very helpful, and wouldn't be subject to those issues. More discretion should be given to profs and admins to give certain accommodations without a medical excuse. Really, if a person were exceptionally short, they wouldn't need to prove that they were within some certain percentile of height to be given a chair that fit the exam desk. If someone were obviously AS, (anyone seeking accommodation wouldn't be hiding it, and anyone faking it couldn't pull it off) then they should be given reasonable accommodation.


I'd vastly prefer having a doctor make the decision than a professor or admin. If it were up to the professors, it'd be erratic at best. Some of them probably think accommodations are unfair by definition - the only way to make sure everyone has the same potential, is to give them the same external conditions. Others would give those accommodations to virtually everyone, resulting in "normals" (hm... I just felt tempted to say "mundanes", if anyone gets the reference) actually getting an unfair advantage. Others again would give them to students they like. And since there is no doctor involved, there's not really anything to base a complaint on. Giving it to the admins would be better, but I disagree that someone couldn't fake AS. Faking it permanently, or even for hours, would probably be impossible. But hey, we can fake being neurotypical to some extent, why shouldn't they be able to fake autism enough to trick someone who's not a professional? It's not like you're observed by the admin for hours, they're busy, and more often than not they'd just accept what you say if you act somewhat awkward. Their education also doesn't encompass diagnosis of autism. And if AS wasn't a medical diagnosis, how would you know you had it in the first place? Self diagnosis can be accurate if the problems are significant enough (I read somewhere about a doctor saying he has yet to meet a self-diagnosed adult who doesn't turn out to have it), but how can you self-diagnose if there's not a diagnosis? I do realize that in another society, research and diagnosis of disabilities like this could be put into another professional field, but that falls under "conceivable worlds", not "possible in current reality". And if it happened, that new field would just carry a somewhat different stigma, since in the end, we're stigmatized for our differences, not for seeing a health professional.

Quote:
I don't have sensory issues too bad. I can't filter sounds, so any environment that has background noise makes it very hard for me to hear people. I have light sensitivity, but sunglasses usually take care of it. My problem has been anxiety and depression. I've been depressed to some degree or anther for probably close to 12 years now. The objects of my depression change, but it remains. Anxiety comes and goes, and is usually the result of my AS-traits being stressed. Depression is caused by the long-term effect of social isolation my AS has caused. But, if I can accommodate the AS, that should improve my anxiety, which in turn should help me build confidence, which should help with my social life (esp now that I can explain that I am AS), which should alleviate my depression. Turn a vicious cycle into a virtuous one.


I recognize myself in that. My anxiety was relieved by identifying some of my limitations (though not even close to all of them), and taking precautions. My depressions were solved by a change of social environment, combined with medication. It would have resurfaced if I went back to (a new, I managed not to get depressed while continuing at the last one) university without accommodations though, and if I actually had got a job after getting my last degree, I would probably also have been depressed after a while. Currently I'm bordering on it every exam period, but at least I'm aware of the reasons, and can act to minimize it. A depression isn't clinical unless it lasts a certain amount of time, after all (and that's my remaining pride showing, due to personal history reasons I have to prove that part of my life is over...) :-)

Quote:
There are a few NT lifestyle features I envy. One is close friendship, the second is romantic love, the third is the esteem of those whom I have esteem for. In order to have those I must be able to emulate (not simulate) some NT behaviors. I don't have a problem with that. In order to be a good chess player, an NT must emulate an AS person, from a certain point of view. And, to a certain extent, emulation of NT behavior does eventually become a bit intuitive, in the same way one learns how to ride a bike. I'll never be the life of the party, and I can't take excitement all night long, but I can make enough of a go of it to be in society. Until, that is, I'm forced into a situation where I can't compensate for my AS. At this point, I have a setback, which usually results in anxiety followed by a depression cycle. So I need help coping with setbacks when they occur, and not allow my AS traits to make things worse.


Pretty much the same here. I would count myself as having close friendships, though. But I'm not sure a regular person observing it would agree with the label. But then who are other people to define my friendships for me? And heh, I keep mixing "emulate" and "simulate" :-) For some reason I tend to use them correctly in IT settings, but not elsewhere. That's one of the disadvantages of using second languages - don't get me started on prepositions. Anyhow, as you said, the emulation can become a bit intuitive, but not quite. Even though I usually don't pay much attention to it, my non-verbal communication parser still is based on conscious analysis, and if someone starts sending out too many or too difficult signals, the fake intuition is gone, and the process starts taking up most of my attention. Then I either stop parsing the non-verbal part, or lose track of the verbal part and have to ask the person to repeat what was being said. Which again shows that the disability is there, independently of circumstances. The only way to remove that specific disability would be introducing a society without non-verbal communication, but that would require a significant amount of genetic engineering, which I doubt will happen. Human devolution seems to favor non-verbal behavior too, so I suspect it'll get worse. That's what happens when you remove arranged marriages from society, I guess :p

Quote:
So we agree that disability is normative. I think that it is dangerous to put what is normative (disability) with what is not normative (disease). But before I can get to that, I need to address disability in greater detail.
Disability, to me, should be a term reserved for a permanent physical or neurological condition which would render the sufferer unable to live independently without help. This is extremely strict, and I think that it is necessarily so. I would say that it ought to be a normative standard, that is, a person wouldn't be able to live independently in our society without help. I would prefer to restrict 'help' to direct intervention by another person.
So applying that standard, a person with AS who can reasonably emulate NT behavior obviously isn't disabled. An AS person who cannot emulate NT at all may be disabled- if they require another person to bring them food, provide shelter, etc. A person who is severely autistic, and must live with a guardian, is obviously disabled.


I can't agree to that, as it doesn't take invisible disability into account (or well, from what you say further down, you have taken it into account but decided to exclude it). Beside the fact that I can't live completely independently without help (need someone to clean up from time to time, counseling, having people make phone calls for me), my semi-successful emulation of NT behavior is in itself a problem. After a day of too much of it (which is mostly every day at university, especially combined with sensory issues), I'm exhausted, and that keeps me from doing as much work as I'd like. So it's perhaps an invisible disability, but it's pretty apparent to me and every healthcare worker who knows about it. If I dropped the pretend and ditched social norms, I'd have more energy, but be shunned for my behavior. Which isn't only society's problem. Even though it's not my fault, people have their right to be offended when someone keeps disrupting them when they speak. They can't know I do that because I have no idea when to speak. They have their right to be offended when I seem to think my ideas are the only right ones, or when I keep talking about my own life without asking them once what they're up to. That's how they work, and they're in majority. So I have the choice between conserving energy or face the consequences for (being seen as) not considering other people's needs. I see no reason not to put that in the disability basket.

Quote:
So what about people whose quality of life is affected by a condition, but not severely enough to be disabled? Well, at that point we are pretty close to left hand/right hand, tall/short, gay/straight. I suspect, and I speculate without really knowing, that the problems these people face are more acute symptoms like depression or anxiety. Someone could be depressed about their left-handedness, or their height, or their sexuality, and that doesn't make those conditions disabilities. It's merely the subject of their other affliction.
Also, the above only applies to the so-called 'invisible disabilities'. Obviously if someone is missing an arm or a leg, or something of that nature, this test doesn't apply.


As I mentioned, those differences don't really cause problems if society doesn't. Left handed people were discriminated in school once. But it's not like they couldn't write, the discrimination was due to an ideal of right-handedness. That could cause a depression, but those depressions aren't there anymore, unless there are still places where kids are being bullied for left-handedness. Being abnormally tall or short, or being gay, are better examples, but the same argument applies. Depression from ASDs may be caused the same way, but it also may be caused from limitations that will always apply, in any society. Sensory issues may cause enough stress to make a person mentally collapse. As can executive dysfunction. Etc. Someone in my family has a brain damage after an accident, without external symptoms, but with sensory dysfunction, balance problems, etc. In many ways, we experience shopping centers and supermarkets pretty much the same way, though to different degrees - she has a harder time than me. Due to all those problems, she can barely walk to the car after shopping. The authorities decided to implement a definition of disability pretty similar to yours to be eligible for handicap parking permission, since there aren't a lot of those parking spots. Because of that, she didn't get it, since she can walk those distances physically, under normal circumstances. Problem is, on a bad day, that's enough to ruin the day completely. That's what happens when you make the definition of disability stricter - it helps society (to lower costs), not people in need of assistance.

Quote:
So, what are the consequences of not restricting the definition of disability like this? Stigma, obviously. Media phrases like 'autism epidemic'. (you would never see 'gay epidemic'). Also, it would clarify issues for people who are suffering. I don't believe I'm suffering from my AS; I'm suffering from depression and anxiety caused by the things I have to do because of AS. If I can deal with those, the AS isn't going to bother me. But if my AS were a disability, then I would be disabled yet not suffer at all. So, how disabling could it really be? Rather than try and shoe horn AS-persons into a category (disabled) that they really don't fit in, the AS movement should try and carve out our own protected class niche.


The stigma would remain, it would just be changed. Since a whole bunch of other conditions would have to be "moved", too, including some of the ones people (sadly!) make fun of frequently, we'd still be subject to much of the same prejudice and social stigma. And we'd still be subject to the jokes, prejudice and bullying more directly tied to AS itself, because they're targeted at or personality traits, not which category we're in.

Also, I *am* suffering from my AS. That doesn't mean I'd take the hypothetical magic pill to make it all go away. I'd be a completely different person, and I'm not sure I'd like myself. I'd also not have some of the abilities I have today. I'd probably have others instead, but I'd not be me. At the same time, I drive home exhausted from social interaction, intensive light and sound and so on almost every day. I'm afraid of phone calls. I forget to pay my bills and send important forms and documents. I do suffer from that, and I will do so even if my attention problems (co-morbid) and excessive sleepiness (separate) are resolved. My life will be significantly easier, but AS will feel like a curse and a blessing at the same time, for the rest of my life. You're probably more lucky than me, but I (and many others) would have to be shoe horned *out* of the "disabled" category, not into it.



Joe90
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 26,492
Location: UK

28 Apr 2012, 8:00 am

These sorts of threads always end up in arguments then getting locked. Some people seem to think that there is no difference between severe Autism and mild AS because severe traits can overlap mild traits and that every Autistic person is different, which is very true, but again there's an answer we will never find. There is no logic to this sort of thing. I'm a mild Aspie myself, and I am, like, almost the opposite to my friend's brother, who is so severely Autistic that he lives in a care home and needs 24-hour care and can't function at all in society, and he is 24. So how come I'm expected to function in society? I can't get benefits, I can't even get the right support because they say I'm too ''normal''. I'm just forced to go on job-seekers like everybody else and look for a job, maybe getting a little extra support from the job centre, like seeing a Disability Employment Advisor, but that's as far as it goes.

And how come some disabled children are sent to mainstream school and others are sent to a special school? I was sent to mainstream school, and the other special needs kids there also had conditions as mild as mine, like Dyspraxia, Dyslexia, learning difficulties, and ADHD, and other conditions. But when I watched a documentary once about kids at a special school, they all had things like Cerebral Palsy, Down's Syndrome, Mental Retardation, severe cases of Autism, and other conditions. There was a big difference. How come none of them were sent to mainstream school but people like me were?


_________________
Female


nessa238
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jul 2011
Age: 58
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,908
Location: UK

28 Apr 2012, 8:13 am

Joe90 wrote:
These sorts of threads always end up in arguments then getting locked. Some people seem to think that there is no difference between severe Autism and mild AS because severe traits can overlap mild traits and that every Autistic person is different, which is very true, but again there's an answer we will never find. There is no logic to this sort of thing. I'm a mild Aspie myself, and I am, like, almost the opposite to my friend's brother, who is so severely Autistic that he lives in a care home and needs 24-hour care and can't function at all in society, and he is 24. So how come I'm expected to function in society? I can't get benefits, I can't even get the right support because they say I'm too ''normal''. I'm just forced to go on job-seekers like everybody else and look for a job, maybe getting a little extra support from the job centre, like seeing a Disability Employment Advisor, but that's as far as it goes.

And how come some disabled children are sent to mainstream school and others are sent to a special school? I was sent to mainstream school, and the other special needs kids there also had conditions as mild as mine, like Dyspraxia, Dyslexia, learning difficulties, and ADHD, and other conditions. But when I watched a documentary once about kids at a special school, they all had things like Cerebral Palsy, Down's Syndrome, Mental Retardation, severe cases of Autism, and other conditions. There was a big difference. How come none of them were sent to mainstream school but people like me were?


The reason a person get sent to a special school is usually because they have a below average level IQ or a condition that is associated with having a below average IQ ie it is assumed they don't have the intellectual ability needed for education at a mainstream school. Children are tested before they enter the school system and during schooling and some of these tests would be to test the child's IQ/find out whether the child had learning disabilites and then they would tend to get sent to a special school if they didn't get a high enough score on the tests. Borderline people with normal IQ but a condition like AS probably benefit more from mainstream schooling in my opinion as they have the chance to get decent qualifications as opposed to having not much expected of them at a special school.

Saying that, I've met a person with Aspergers in the past who told me he was sent to a special school but he had an average to above average IQ so they'd messed up basically. His education really suffered as the teaching wasn't suited to his intellectual ability. It depends on what category the medical and education establishments put you in and also what category your own parents put you in. If you do nothing to indicate to teachers/caregivers that you have a lower level of intelligence than average or that you wouldn't cope with mainstream schooling, you will tend to go to a mainstream school.

I think a lot of it can come from a person's own parents - ie if they think there's something wrong with their child ie that they aren't 'normal' and that they lack intelligence then this can lead to the child being judged stupid and in need of special schooling, when it could just be neurodoversity and in no way indicative of a lower IQ.



Verdandi
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Dec 2010
Age: 54
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,275
Location: University of California Sunnydale (fictional location - Real location Olympia, WA)

28 Apr 2012, 8:41 am

My IQ was tested as fairly high, but the only time I did do well in school was in a special ed class - one primarily for students who had conditions like ADHD or conduct disorders as opposed to intellectual disabilities, however.

I nearly attended a special high school that would have given me a curriculum appropriate to my learning style. It was not strictly for gifted students, but for students with learning difficulties. It probably would have been a better option for me than repeating a grade and then dropping out of high school despite learning everything I was supposed to learn.



Kiseki
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 29 May 2010
Age: 44
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,604
Location: Osaka JP

28 Apr 2012, 8:45 am

I've always been pretty normal. My parents just thought I was "different from my brothers." I had tics as a kid and was misdiagnosed with Tourette's. I also threw lots of tantrums. When I was 3 I went crazy in my bedroom and broke the full-length mirror in there. I have no idea why. I still throw small tantrums to this day, generally when either frustrated or under sensory overload.

Most of the people I know consider me "unique" or "quirky." They are baffled by my food choices and picky behaviors. They think I'm weird for never going out on Sundays. They see that I am childlike and innocent. They know I am supersensitive to everything. They are confused as to why I am 32 yrs. old yet still can't drive and have never been in a relationship. However the general population has no idea these are Aspie traits. I think this is why Aspie adults are viewed as "normal."


_________________
Your Aspie score: 161 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 55 of 200
You are very likely an Aspie


Maerlyn138
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 2 Nov 2005
Age: 51
Gender: Male
Posts: 499
Location: The Island of Misfit Toys

28 Apr 2012, 9:09 am

Joe90 wrote:
These sorts of threads always end up in arguments then getting locked. Some people seem to think that there is no difference between severe Autism and mild AS because severe traits can overlap mild traits and that every Autistic person is different, which is very true, but again there's an answer we will never find.


Agree, I started off....at least my memory starts off, being very impaired in elementary school, junior high, and the first part of high school. However over the years I have built up a functioning persona to use at work (of course it has to be remade if I change jobs, but it's basically the same). This mask is very thin though and begins to crack if i get out of my comfort zone or start to actually hang out with people after work or something.

Impairments in other areas has also improved over the years. Probably would've gone faster if I hadn't gotten married twice. Then I could've spent move time on self improvement. But, maybe the experience was good for me :\ who knows.


_________________
We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams.

Aspie score: 159 of 200 NT score: 64 of 200