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Deinonychus
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01 May 2012, 1:27 pm

I was just looking at the German AS forum aspies.de and saw the results of a poll about liking being with other people. Of the respondents 82% said that they only rarely liked being with others or not at all. I was surprised that the figure was so high because I was under the impression that a lot of people with AS quite like being with others even if they are not very socially skilled. Of this 82% about 3/4 had an official diagnosis while the other 1/4 were unofficially diagnosed or self-diagnosed. Personally, I prefer to keep my social contacts to a minimum because I get social overload really quickly and like to be in my own headspace rather than interacting with anybody else, but I do need some human contact. Most of the respondents said they were like that too. I wonder if German aspies are less sociable than other nationalities. Reading the forum there the most dominant trait seems to be social withdrawal, much more so than with people on WP. Not too sure why I'm posting this. Maybe it will interest someone.



Mayel
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01 May 2012, 1:57 pm

That's intresting. It's sounds a little bit schizoid (social withdrawal because there is no felt need to interact with others). I once thought I was schizoid until I did a lot of research on it and also hung around schizoid forums....I came to realize that I was not like that at all.
I do like to have someone to talk to (at times). What I don't like is group conversations but other than that I certainly feel the need to communicate with others (and I need time for myself after social interaction).
I'm german...but I've also found that the german aspie-forum seems to be quiet different to this one. The social "climate" is different but I can't point my finger on it,...why that is...I don't know (maybe your observation could be an explanation). I prefer wrongplanet.

I've just finished reading a german manual for psychiatrist about AS and HFA...and they also underlined a general want for social interaction in AS.


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AspieOtaku
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01 May 2012, 4:05 pm

Sometimes I am social and other times I am not but thanks to experience with low end jobs and customer service my socializing skills have vastly improved "probably because I have no choice but to interact with total strangers if I want to keep my job" I usually socialized when people talk to me first though and most of the NTs I am friends with are considered weird by other NT standards like emo goths punks nerds and foreighners.


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Bloodheart
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01 May 2012, 4:19 pm

I'm half German, love social contact although of course it's often easier to be alone, but not sure that counts :)

Of all the countries in the world it doesn't surprise me to see German aspies being the more socially withdrawn - sorry for stereotyping but sometimes stereotypes have a factual basis, Germans as a people do tend to be socially withdrawal to begin with and I'd imagine Germany is unlikely to be an aspie-friendly place so they may face more problems with prejudice and lack of support there (I'm theorising, of course).

I'm sure there's also some interesting differences between UK aspies and US aspies as it seems having Asperger's is more of a 'thing' in the US making it a bigger deal and there is more of a curbie culture in the US (thank you Autism Speaks and associated groups) so maybe in those of you in the US have a stronger connection to an aspie identity and face more problems when it comes to acceptance.


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Deinonychus
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01 May 2012, 5:11 pm

Mayel wrote:
That's intresting. It's sounds a little bit schizoid (social withdrawal because there is no felt need to interact with others). I once thought I was schizoid until I did a lot of research on it and also hung around schizoid forums....I came to realize that I was not like that at all.
I do like to have someone to talk to (at times). What I don't like is group conversations but other than that I certainly feel the need to communicate with others (and I need time for myself after social interaction).
I'm german...but I've also found that the german aspie-forum seems to be quiet different to this one. The social "climate" is different but I can't point my finger on it,...why that is...I don't know (maybe your observation could be an explanation). I prefer wrongplanet.

I've just finished reading a german manual for psychiatrist about AS and HFA...and they also underlined a general want for social interaction in AS.


I have wondered if I am schizoid, too, just like you have. I find that a lot of the people on the German aspergers forum seem fairly schizoid. In fact, I would say that the difference between the German aspergers forum and this one is the "schizoid" quality of the German one. I have also tried reading the German schizoid forum itself and find it more congenial than the American schizoid forum, which I can't relate to at all.

If being schizoid is simply defined as social withdrawal then presumably becoming schizoid is one of the possible outcomes of having AS, namely when social interaction becomes too frustrating or unrewarding over a long period of time. But I think that the official criteria for schizoid personality disorder include much more than that. Personally I can't identify with schizoid personality disorder, beyond reluctance to socialise.



Mayel
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02 May 2012, 1:05 am

Halligeninseln wrote:
If being schizoid is simply defined as social withdrawal then presumably becoming schizoid is one of the possible outcomes of having AS, namely when social interaction becomes too frustrating or unrewarding over a long period of time. But I think that the official criteria for schizoid personality disorder include much more than that. Personally I can't identify with schizoid personality disorder, beyond reluctance to socialise.

Very true. I agree. Schizoid PD entails more than social withdrawal (without feeling uncomfortable about it) and it can certainly be a consequence that arises out of AS experiences.
But this trait is often highlighted as the differential criterion for AS and schizoid PD (given you don't have both) and in this context it would explain the "nature" of the other AS forum.


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Deinonychus
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02 May 2012, 9:46 am

Mayel wrote:
Halligeninseln wrote:
If being schizoid is simply defined as social withdrawal then presumably becoming schizoid is one of the possible outcomes of having AS, namely when social interaction becomes too frustrating or unrewarding over a long period of time. But I think that the official criteria for schizoid personality disorder include much more than that. Personally I can't identify with schizoid personality disorder, beyond reluctance to socialise.

Very true. I agree. Schizoid PD entails more than social withdrawal (without feeling uncomfortable about it) and it can certainly be a consequence that arises out of AS experiences.
But this trait is often highlighted as the differential criterion for AS and schizoid PD (given you don't have both) and in this context it would explain the "nature" of the other AS forum.


Maybe the reason you can't have both is that if you meet 3 of the criteria for schizoid personality disorder you are schizoid but a lot of people with aspergers DO meet 3 of the criteria so they would be technically schizoid but the schizoidness is then counted as part of the aspergers, so they aren't. For example, a person with AS may prefer solitary activities to social ones (1), not want to have a family (because it would be too overwhelming) (2) and have no or only one close friendship (3), take pleasure in few activities (ie only a special interest) (4). So there you have the criteria met for schizoid personality disorder already. However this would be overridden by the AS diagnosis. So it wouldn't be that a person with aspergers can't meet the criteria for schizoid personality disorder, but rather that meeting those criteria wouldn't count because there is another explanation for why they meet the criteria and that takes priority. I think of a tendency to social withdrawal as being quintessentially schizoid more or less by definition but I think the medical profession requires more than just that to diagnose someone with it. However, according to one description I read it says that schizoids find social interaction boring and pointless, which I mostly do because I'd rather be getting on with my SI. They are also said to have social skills deficits due to lack of practice and to get caught in a vicious circle of poor social experiences leading to more withdrawal leading to even worse social skills. Social situations are also said to be overwhelming and tiring for them and they don't like small talk. There seems to be a lot of overlap in some areas. The books also say that it can be very difficult sometimes to make a differential diagnosis between AS and schizoid personality disorder. I think my therapist thought I was schizoid when I was in therapy 33 years ago. The Autismusambulanz think I have AS.